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Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Meditation
    #8254006 -

What does it mean to you? How do you use it? and what have you learned from it?

ive been getting interested, wanted to hear some answers :smile:


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retired

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Re: Meditation [Re: wilgi]
    #8254318 -

Meditation is the opportunity to function as a spiritual being. When you sit in meditation (or lie down – or walk…) you can put any issues aside, and apply your resources at the task of just being.

This is a practice that you have to want to do, and doing this work has to be enough of a reward that you don’t become frustrated that it did not do something else for you.

While in meditation you are doing for yourself what no-one else can do for you, which is just to be.

My grammar checker is freaking out that I ended the last sentence with “to be” and did not apply anything specific afterwards.

For most people this is going to wreak havoc with more than just their grammar checkers, but after a while the skills required will accumulate and the facility will gel up for being more effectively spiritual, or rather less of an automaton.

The meditation that I do is a simple version of vipassana or insight meditation:
In a relaxed position, I focus my attention on the end of my nose while following the breath thinking ” beginning….middle… end…” at the beginning middle and end of the out breath, and then thinking ” beginning….middle… end…” at the beginning middle and end of the in breath. I repeat this for 20 minutes and take a break, then I may resume it. If I have a deep breath I think “this is a deep breath”.

If I wander I don’t punish my self in any way and I think “resuming” and I just continue from where ever I am at..

If I notice I am saying “middle” or “beginning” when I am really at the end I correct it gently.

If issues arise I look at them with direct gentleness and resume what I am doing.

This is a very simple – non denominational, humble, effective practice which does not waste energy or generate any substantial proxy between you and yourself.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Meditation [Re: redgreenvines]
    #8254443 -

I'd just like to add, you should read the original writings (maybe even a couple of different translations :P) on how to do Vipassana: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.118.than.html

If you want just the meditation instructions, then the meditation is essentially mindfulness (scroll down to "Mindfulness of In-&-Out Breathing"). Basically, what rgv said but he added his own twist. If you want clarification of what mindfulness is in depth, you'll have to figure out what that stuff is on the bottom. All the info is on the main site (accesstoinsight.org).

And yea, rgv wanted to emphasize that this practice isn't really about religion. Its about becoming aware of what you're doing in the present moment. Insight is just a pleasant side effect of this practice.

----
edit:
Actually, instead of all of the above, just read this if you want in depth: http://dhammasukha.org/Study/Books/Pdf/anapana-%203-2003.pdf


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As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.

Edited by psyka (04/08/08 06:30 AM)

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Re: Meditation [Re: psyka]
    #8254769 -

I use meditation as a means to be completely in the Now. Sometime my thoughts get in the way but that's all right with me because then I know what to take action on. If something is on my mind thus restricting me from possibly being Here and Now than I would have to work on my focus or take care of the issue at hand. I have learned how to quiet my mind and just be and exist in total tranquility and peace. Meditation is definitely time for my spiritual being and I have also used chakra meditation to concentrate on certain aspects of my life. I have noticed i have become a lot more aware and alert because of it.


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BE HERE NOW

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Re: Meditation [Re: publicenemy1]
    #8255007 -

thanks, anymore replies of different styles or preferences are welcome, the replys so far are great


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retired

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Re: Meditation [Re: wilgi]
    #8255018 -

wilgi said:
What does it mean to you? How do you use it? and what have you learned from it?

ive been getting interested, wanted to hear some answers :smile:


Meditation means many happy hours of discussion at the shroomery.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Meditation [Re: wilgi]
    #8255066 -

Start here:

http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma4/mpe.html

Read as much as possible, but don't forget to actually meditate.


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

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Re: Meditation [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #8255336 -

For me ive reached...

All out interstellar orgasmic ecstatic bliss/joy of being from pranayama & kundalini. (playing with fire though, your mind/body may not be ready and you could end up suicidal, so ive been told)

Daily awareness from vipassana (just keep coming back to the breath) This is the most stable meditation imo it makes you realise the only thing you can depend on during life is your breath, and once oyur breath is controlled, so is your mind.

Also the best experience ive had is realising ultimate reality through self enquiry by peeling off the layers of "reality" until you reach emptiness.

I got there by meditation on death, realising all i have believed i am is a bit of flesh & bones that dies, theres nothing else that lives on, im just a chunk of human that  gets born & dies, then realising that one day the earth will also be gone...then all there is is emptiness.
It sounds silly but when your meditating and your not thinking about it, your being it, then your self is extinguished & you are emptiness, however when you truly reach emptiness its the most fullfilling experience ever!!! lol


The best advice i can give is whatever you experience, dont attach to the experience, no matter how enjoyable don't label it as "thats it", watch all experiences come & go, stay with the breath it is all you can count on in this life.

:peace:


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Re: Meditation [Re: wilgi]
    #8257160 -

here's a great pdf on samatha and vipassana meditation

http://www.meditation.asn.au/Documents/Chanmay%20Sayadaw/Talk%204.pdf

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Re: Meditation [Re: deranger]
    #8257185 -

Meditators should be careful about the difference between techniques of samatha and vipassanĂ  meditation. In vipassanĂ  meditation, the purpose is to realise all mental states and physical processes in their true nature. Here, their true nature means the three characteristics which every mental state and physical process possesses. Any mental state or physical process may be the object of meditation. So the vipassanĂ  meditator must not take only a single object but take many varieties of objects. The samatha meditator takes only a single object, while the vipassanĂ  meditator takes every mental state and physical process as the object of meditation. The purpose of samatha meditation is to concentrate the mind deeply on a single object of meditation. The purpose of vipassanĂ  meditation is to realise the true nature of all mental states and physical processes.



Here the difference between the technique of samatha and vipassanĂ  is very distinct. When the mind goes out in samatha meditation it must be brought back to the primary object, focusing the mind on the respiration. The samatha meditator must not observe the wandering thought or thinking mind. He need not realise any mentality or physicality. What he needs to do is attain deep concentration of mind on a single object, focusing the mind attentively, noting the in- and out-breathing.

But the vipassanĂ  meditator needs to realise impermanence, unsatisfactoriness end the impersonal nature of the wandering, thinking mind. He must observe the wandering thoughts, the thinking mind as it really occurs, noting `wandering, wandering', `thinking, thinking', `imagining, imagining'.

Edited by SyntheticMInd (04/08/08 08:46 PM)

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Re: Meditation [Re: deranger]
    #8257258 -

synthetic,
you are getting too caught up in the differences of something that is incomparable.
when you start vipassana you are not doing vipassana for at least 15 minutes, you are doing samatha.
you cant avoid it. before you can parlay it up
you have to calm it down.
just by trying earnestly to do vipassana from a standing start you are achieving samatha only until you have established enough calm or resonant base to lay into your insight practice.
also - oddly - practicing samatha techniques effectively for more than 20 minutes usually verges into vipassana unless the meditator forces something like shifting chakkras or like that.
the two ideas of meditation are intertwined interdependent and there is no reason to be uptight about it at all.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Meditation [Re: redgreenvines]
    #8257616 -

rvg, I realize this and my meditation is a combination of samatha and vipassana. for the past 4 years of my practise it has been a combination of both. I didn't even know what these terms really meant until recently, I've always just followed my feelings and used my own methods.

for the past 4 years I've been concentrating on the 'sound of silence', and using that as an object of meditation. so that is the samatha aspect to it. the vipassana aspect of it is the recognition and noting of all the mental, emotional and physical processes that occur (also using those as objects of meditation and concentration).

yet, there is a difference between the two. practising ONLY samatha is different than practising vipassana. vipassana is the combination of both in a way, yet samatha isn't. I don't see how practising samatha for 20 minutes leads into vipassana. for example if I were doing samatha only, I would not be bringing into awareness thoughts and feelings that come into being, rather shifting myself back into concentration of my primary object and ignoring all rising processes (secondary objects). this isn't vipassana. this could lead into vipassana if I were to start practising the methods that it uses.

good quote - (Ajahn Sumedho lineage uses silence as an object of meditation for those who are interested, it's not too heard of)

"And in order to do that one learns to sit still and listen to the silence. Not that this is going to make you enlightened, but it's going against the momentum of habit; against restless energies of the body and emotions. So you listen to the silence. You can hear my voice; you can hear the sounds of things that happen, but behind all that is a kind of high-pitch, almost electronic buzz. That's what I call 'the sound of silence.' I find that a very helpful way of concentrating the mind because when one begins to notice that - without regarding it as any kind of attainment or achievement - it becomes a convenient method for contemplation, in order to hear yourself think."

http://www.forestsangha.org/sumedho18.htm

Edited by SyntheticMInd (04/08/08 10:06 PM)

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Re: Meditation [Re: deranger]
    #8257953 -

I get high and meditate. My method of going about it is smoking,do breathing exercises, and stretches. Then eventually work out. Been going about it every other day and it's verrry refreshing.

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Re: Meditation [Re: asian_raggs]
    #8258352 -

where is the best place? do you like to in nature or in your room or what kind of setting? ocean? trees?


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retired

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Re: Meditation [Re: deranger]
    #8258464 -

SyntheticMInd said:
yet, there is a difference between the two. practising ONLY samatha is different than practising vipassana. vipassana is the combination of both in a way, yet samatha isn't. I don't see how practising samatha for 20 minutes leads into vipassana. for example if I were doing samatha only, I would not be bringing into awareness thoughts and feelings that come into being, rather shifting myself back into concentration of my primary object and ignoring all rising processes (secondary objects). this isn't vipassana. this could lead into vipassana if I were to start practising the methods that it uses.


this is like saying that no christians meditate or care about being enlightened, or like saying that vipasana meditators are more enlightened than zen meditators.

in acutal fact all the practices merge when absorption goes beyond form. ( absorption is that frame stacking effect I keep talking about which occurs from psychedelic, emotion, dreaming, and samatha meditation does it as well - light absorption is good for vipassana - kundalini goes very heavy into absorption and eschews vipassana, eventually the practitioner of kundalini transcends their college and lets it go to vipassana instead of manning the pump as it were. even tibetan thanka meditation and double dorge meditations when mastered are dropped in form for natural vipassana )

I agree there is a difference and my preference is to the simpler vipassana approach, but it is the same mountain regardless of approach, or of the words you use to describe it.
and words do fail.
even poetry only points to the mountain as if we barely know that something is over there.

as for place and posture, sitting crosslegged in the beginning by a tree or a shrine of some kind helps focus; eventually the world is the place you want to be, and any reasonable spot that you will be undisturbed for the duration is great for meditation.

( I have never used a shrine of any kind - it would have killed my jewish parents, and I am glad I never got that attached to the talisman mentality that objects can be imbued with )


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Meditation [Re: redgreenvines]
    #8258684 -

Taking meditation as one of the first waking acts helps me take mindfulness into my day.

All this talk of enlightenment, often serves to trick the mind into further waywardness. The more present I am, the more I am myself and not my mind. The realisation that "you are not your mind" is possibly the most important lesson for present day humanity IMO.

Tolle wrote "For two years I sat on park benches in states of indescribable joy" or something similar. When I first read this I found it funny. Now I see what he means. When you get your first glimpse of it, you start being happy.

Meditation is the simplest and most profound act I know.


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let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love

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Re: Meditation [Re: mr_kite]
    #8258749 -

Your so right the mind is nothing but attachment & craving, i see full meditation which leads to emptiness as completely getting rid of the mind by controlling it with breath, then detaching from it through observational awareness of impermanence.

The best advice ive ever gotten is breath control = mind control

Watching your breath will in turn make you watch your body & mind, which is awareness. When you are aware/unattached you waste no energy thinking you are the mind.

This is easy & so simple!




If you want to bring concepts into it id go with

metta (unconditional love from the heart)
impermanence (seeing all come & go/death) which will lead you to emptiness.


Osho said it well.

"You are just like an onion, layers upon layers, but if you peel the onion soon you will find fresher layers inside. Go on deeper and you find more and more, fresher layers."

The easiest way to do this is to rid yourself of all these impermanent things that you identify your illusionary self with, once all these things you identify with, that you believe to be you are gone then you see who you truly are.

Which imo is what meditation is all about, seeing reality for what it is not what the mind is perceiving/beleiving it to be

:peace:



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Edited by Chronic7 (04/09/08 06:18 AM)

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Re: Meditation [Re: Chronic7]
    #8259020 -

thanks guys for all the replies, anymore replies are welcome, i am eating all this up, i really like the onion metaphor also, and i think like mr_kite's when he wakes up is really interesting, id like that


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retired

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Re: Meditation [Re: wilgi]
    #8259040 -

A great meditation i tried for the first time was breathing in light (visualisation) and picture every cell in your body being filled with a golden colour, you will feel revitalised & very light.

Awareness of breath is still the foundation of all meditation though and you can do it anywhere, driving, walking, at work...also a str8 back is very important, my posture sucks and i feel its one thing that hinders me greatly.

Also look up some yoga asanas if you feel uncomfortable, stretching is really good for your inner strength and comfort with your own body, remember bend from as low as possible in the upper body or you'll do your back in.

I hope your first few trys with meditation are beautiful experiences as they were for me, just please dont think with your mind, focus on that breath! Most poeple who try & dont "get" meditation is because they are not focusing on theyre breath, theyre just thinking about it impatiently waiting for happyness.

:peace:


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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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