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OfflineSaturdayraining
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Meditation to Understand Consciousness
    #13160138 - 09/07/10 02:58 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

A few days ago, coming down from somewhere else, i had the following epiphany. I think it's what I want to do with my life.  I was planning on  backpack for the next few years around the americas, and it seems like it is time to start the next phase of my life.

This is what I wrote at the time, which has the gist of what I want to do.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

It has been said that the secrets of the universe open up to us for seconds every day. For a moment, everything is clear, and in perspective. Then, the channel changes. We get lost in the sensory input of our world and experiences and lose the enlightenment we had so fleetingly known.

Inside each of us is the secret of life, the minute and seemingly arbitrary points of awareness that lead to the ultimate truth of understanding how and why it is to be. Our mind holds the secret of what makes conscious thought, and we need only to understand what we are looking at to find it.

Through the use of introspective meditation and psychedelics, I will visualize and describe the process of thought. Through careful training and knowledge of neural systems, I will receive the insight given by psychedelics and decode them into a quantitative format, linking the functioning parts of a system to what it feels like to exist consciously as that system. With this insight, I can help design a new generation of Artificial intelligence that will send mankind into the singularity.

I will train myself to feel calm in the face of each psychedelic, and examine the trip thoroughly with intent on connecting the subjective effects of the drugs on their physiological mechanism. By altering my consciousness I will examine the workings of my brain from many perspectives, and deduce how the separate parts function as a whole.

I will study how information propagates through my neural system, and understand how each thought is affected step-wise. I will slow down each thought and break it down to it’s constituent parts. Learn what the process of “will” is, and what process gives rise to it.

The passage of time. The translation from objective reality to the subjective. Being aware of a thought versus thinking that thought.

ASK THE RIGHT QUESTIONS


--------------------
- Saturday

I have a lot of friends in the drug culture. I try to help them out by posting on here, and sometimes they put stuff up without my permission, but I do not condone or commit any acts described.

“In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion"
-Carl Sagan

Anyone have some Macrocybe Titans spores or samples? PM me

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: Saturdayraining]
    #13160152 - 09/07/10 03:01 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I think it's what I want to do with my life.  I was planning on  backpack for the next few years around the americas, and it seems like it is time to start the next phase of my life.





Like that kid that starved to death in a bus in Alaska? He also 'got a message' that was what he was 'supposed' to do with his life.


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OfflineSolving Ennui
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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #13160160 - 09/07/10 03:03 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

that's awesome, been planning to do some backpacking around myself once i save some $$$

congratz on running from the worker-ant complex

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

I think it's what I want to do with my life.  I was planning on  backpack for the next few years around the americas, and it seems like it is time to start the next phase of my life.





Like that kid that starved to death in a bus in Alaska? He also 'got a message' that was what he was 'supposed' to do with his life.





yes im sure in his death he felt great fulfillment, he wen't outside of the bounds society has placed on us, and some of us would agree he didn't fail in his quest, i remember the documentary your talking about and feel now as i did then he died a martyr

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: Saturdayraining]
    #13160192 - 09/07/10 03:08 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Sounds like fun. i've been doing some of those, but thanks for the groundowork on some of the news ones. Such as what will is and being aware of thoughts instead of just trying to think about them.


:cheers:

Keep me updated!!!


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: Solving Ennui]
    #13160202 - 09/07/10 03:10 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

He felt great shame shortly before he died. Read his journal entries. :rolleyes:


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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: Saturdayraining]
    #13160217 - 09/07/10 03:13 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Inside each of us is the secret of life




What precisely does that mean and how do you know?


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OfflineSolving Ennui
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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #13160261 - 09/07/10 03:22 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

you carry evidence of the secret of life by your mere existence, a little logical thinking would take you a long ways

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OfflineSaturdayraining
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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13160274 - 09/07/10 03:24 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I wrote other short thought blurbs:


STUDY SUBJECTS:

Neural Networks
Information theory
Computational theory
Neurophysiology
Brain evolution
Psychedelic pharmacology
General Neurology
Vipassana Meditation
Visualization of Physical processes
Neuropsychology
Binary mathematics
Language theory
Calculus
Multivariable Calculus

What is perception?

De-centering the ego, and extending the concept of cerebral awareness throughout the entire nervous system.

Visualization without sight
Visualization through knowledge, and perceiving sensory input as pure information

Understanding the nature of information

Psychedelic Meditation

Equivocating sight with each of the senses (synesthesia)

Visualization


I think the key here is combining scientific knowledge with intuitive understanding. I need to be learned in those subjects (and more) in order to describe, fully comprehend, and recreate what I learn. I must devote myself fully to this learning.

anyone can join me at any time! I think co-operation on this quest will yield much better results.

He may have died, but that's because he equivocated intellectual freedom while ignoring physical freedom. Leaving societies safeguards against survival makes you focus on surviving any way you can. This is liberating, but it is not freedom. it is important, but it is not what I want my focus to be. I will be camping almost all the time, but I will still be in contact with civilization. This will take a lot of stress off of surviving, and allow me focus on my chosen topics.

How do i know the secret of life is in each of us? simple. we are alive. we are conscious (well, at least I am). whatever intelligence and consciousness IS, is embodied in each of us. We just need to know how to turn our inner camera back on itself, and find out what we're doing.

an analogy is, if you focus on breathing long enough, you can eventually deduce what is making your breathe. You can feel you diaphragm pulling down, you esophagus expanding, cool air filling your lungs, etc. Of course, in this example, you can't know the neurobiological reason to breathe, but in my example, I think the neurophysiological functioning of the neocortex can be deduced, because that is what we are using to deduce!


--------------------
- Saturday

I have a lot of friends in the drug culture. I try to help them out by posting on here, and sometimes they put stuff up without my permission, but I do not condone or commit any acts described.

“In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion"
-Carl Sagan

Anyone have some Macrocybe Titans spores or samples? PM me

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: Solving Ennui]
    #13160307 - 09/07/10 03:29 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

congratz on running from the worker-ant complex




But I never said I did.


--------------------

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: Solving Ennui]
    #13160322 - 09/07/10 03:31 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

you carry evidence of the secret of life by your mere existence, a little logical thinking would take you a long ways




Really? How is existing a secret?


--------------------

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OfflineSolving Ennui
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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #13160325 - 09/07/10 03:32 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

congratz on running from the worker-ant complex




But I never said I did.




wasn't directed towards you, someone as conceded and ignorant as you must be a happy little ant
Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

you carry evidence of the secret of life by your mere existence, a little logical thinking would take you a long ways




Really? How is existing a secret?




Reading comprehension problems? me thinks so

hypocrit

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OfflineSaturdayraining
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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #13160334 - 09/07/10 03:34 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

you tell me when you can make consciousness exist, then.


--------------------
- Saturday

I have a lot of friends in the drug culture. I try to help them out by posting on here, and sometimes they put stuff up without my permission, but I do not condone or commit any acts described.

“In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion"
-Carl Sagan

Anyone have some Macrocybe Titans spores or samples? PM me

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: Solving Ennui]
    #13160380 - 09/07/10 03:42 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

wasn't directed towards you



Actually it was. How much would you care to wager? Or will you man up? Nah...

It takes an IQ of 50 to grok the 'Reply to' function. Sorry I overestimated. :sorry:


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OfflineSolving Ennui
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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #13160551 - 09/07/10 04:12 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

i use the box at the bottem of the page to post, it replies to the last poster, generally nothing positive or neutral i say is directed towards you, only negative things, then you can assume its about you

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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: Solving Ennui]
    #13160610 - 09/07/10 04:18 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

So it is too difficult then. Got it.

When you are having a conversation in real life do you face away from the person you are intending to talk to and stare at a stranger, then get all hissy when the stranger asks you why you are addressing him?

Maybe you do...


--------------------

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OfflineSolving Ennui
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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #13160626 - 09/07/10 04:20 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

your a dumb ass i explained the post was in no way towards you

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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: Solving Ennui]
    #13160659 - 09/07/10 04:27 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

'your' a dumbass




You don't even get the irony here.

Using the forum properly negates the need for such an explanation, but rather than learn, you want to keep whining.


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OfflineSolving Ennui
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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #13160661 - 09/07/10 04:28 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

rofl and you have room to talk, you have time to correct grammar but you don't read anything anyone types, it's sad and pathetic

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OfflineSaturdayraining
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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: Solving Ennui]
    #13160701 - 09/07/10 04:35 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Ennui, everyone sees the conversation, we see what orgone is doing. Don't spend your thoughtS on it. There are Much more interesting things to think about.


--------------------
- Saturday

I have a lot of friends in the drug culture. I try to help them out by posting on here, and sometimes they put stuff up without my permission, but I do not condone or commit any acts described.

“In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion"
-Carl Sagan

Anyone have some Macrocybe Titans spores or samples? PM me

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: Saturdayraining]
    #13160758 - 09/07/10 04:46 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

It's nice to have a Big Brother to protect him from the evil OC. :heart:


--------------------

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OfflineSaturdayraining
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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #13160803 - 09/07/10 04:56 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

If by "protect", you mean " trying to steer conversation to something interesting", then yes, I'm glAd I'm here too. If you found something contradictory or incorrect in my post, orgone, it would be nice of you to point it out a little more explicitly.


--------------------
- Saturday

I have a lot of friends in the drug culture. I try to help them out by posting on here, and sometimes they put stuff up without my permission, but I do not condone or commit any acts described.

“In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion"
-Carl Sagan

Anyone have some Macrocybe Titans spores or samples? PM me

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OfflineSolving Ennui
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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: Saturdayraining]
    #13160812 - 09/07/10 04:57 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

i know i need to learn, wrestling with pigs n all... and oh he does enjoy it

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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: Saturdayraining]
    #13161045 - 09/07/10 05:37 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I would say I have probably spent more time meditating than most anyone here and gave it up. And yes, I studied under a well-respected Swami. Never discovered a single secret. Never obtained any deep insights, raised my kundalini, saw a blue light, lost a fear of death or any other alleged claim as the result of such training.


--------------------

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OfflineSaturdayraining
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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #13161088 - 09/07/10 05:46 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

considering most people don't mediate, it's not much of a statement to say you've meditated more than most anyone.

"Never discovered a single secret."

Well, nobody is waiting to hand out secrets to those who meditate. If your saying that meditation does not lead to any new kind of understanding, then you are certainly incorrect. Any new activity yields new understanding, and just like an athlete trains their muscles to respond with precision through repetition, meditation trains you to observe the act of thought itself and examine processes in your head that you have never even thought to look at before (kind of like psychedelics).

If I asked you to picture a large circle with exactly one hundred thirty two dots on it, it would take you a while to imagine it. But if You tried to do that every day, you would do it in less and less time, until  you could imagine it almost instantly.

If you say you gained nothing from your meditation, not even a deeper understanding of how your thought process works, then you did not train enough. You need to walk before you can run.

If nothing else, meditation teaches you to be much more aware of how your own thought process works, which is exactly what I want to do.


--------------------
- Saturday

I have a lot of friends in the drug culture. I try to help them out by posting on here, and sometimes they put stuff up without my permission, but I do not condone or commit any acts described.

“In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion"
-Carl Sagan

Anyone have some Macrocybe Titans spores or samples? PM me

Edited by Saturdayraining (09/07/10 06:10 PM)

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #13161206 - 09/07/10 06:07 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
When you are having a conversation in real life do you face away from the person you are intending to talk to and stare at a stranger, then get all hissy when the stranger asks you why you are addressing him?

Maybe you do...


:lol:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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OfflineSaturdayraining
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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: Poid]
    #13161248 - 09/07/10 06:14 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I like message boards, because they make you think about what you want to say for a while before you say it. This allows you to avoid pointless, directionless conversations about misdirected replys.


poid, your avatar makes my head hurt. What is it?

EDIT: oh, its that parakeet in your sig. I see. i didn't know image quality could be too low for an avatar :P


--------------------
- Saturday

I have a lot of friends in the drug culture. I try to help them out by posting on here, and sometimes they put stuff up without my permission, but I do not condone or commit any acts described.

“In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion"
-Carl Sagan

Anyone have some Macrocybe Titans spores or samples? PM me

Edited by Saturdayraining (09/07/10 06:16 PM)

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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: Saturdayraining]
    #13161295 - 09/07/10 06:24 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

It's a parrot, not a parokeet.




--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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OfflineSolving Ennui
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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #13161326 - 09/07/10 06:29 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
I would say I have probably spent more time meditating than most anyone here and gave it up. And yes, I studied under a well-respected Swami. Never discovered a single secret. Never obtained any deep insights, raised my kundalini, saw a blue light, lost a fear of death or any other alleged claim as the result of such training.





ever heard the story about the master trying to pour water into a cup that's full? you already know everything, how could someone like you ever be taught

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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: Solving Ennui]
    #13161372 - 09/07/10 06:38 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

They give out masters degrees for pouring water into cups that are already full of water? :ooo:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: Poid]
    #13162720 - 09/07/10 10:36 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Saturday, this is a very bold and ambitious undertaking that you propose.  Although I am all for awareness and understanding, I think you should take heed of its limits and parameters.  For one, I think your ambition for this project and its results could be dramatically different from the actual results.  Meditation is not a tactic for seeking any desired results. In fact meditation is very contrary to any kind of desire or expected result.  Meditation is about the awareness of "being" (or perhaps non-being) and all things that come out of it (at least if your meditation is insight oriented). In other words, I notice something very contradictory between your mechanical and calculated ambition for understanding, and what the actual state of understanding and its purpose might be.    Remember, you are a human being, not a scientific device.  Catch my drift?      Dont get me wrong, your proposal is fucking cool, and if you did achieve it (or half of it for that matter), I would smack myself for criticizing.

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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: Saturdayraining]
    #13162770 - 09/07/10 10:48 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

i didn't know image quality could be too low for an avatar




Cool! A pointleess, directionless comment. :cool:


--------------------

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OfflineSaturdayraining
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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #13162944 - 09/07/10 11:21 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

New forms of meditation are created quite often, I would think, and insight into the conscious mind does not seem too far off from Vipassana meditation- possibly the oldest form of meditation. Vipassana is meditation on the nature of reality, which involves stripping away the biases of the senses and focusing on observing the world in it's true form. In order to remove the phenomenology of the world, (I believe) one must intuitively understand it's functioning, and I also happen to believe that a knowledge of our relatively advanced sciences with aid and further that investigation. but, I agree, My body can only take me so far. I was designed to function in a certain way, and that way may make impossible to truly perceive my mind.
But psychedelics!
They give us things that our bodies and minds had not anticipated.
like different shadows of the same 3-dimensional shape, by examining each of the mental "shadows", I can eventually deduce the shape that is making them!

I believe no other philosophy has combined quantitative observation, psychedelics, and meditation. (please prove me wrong).

Human history and advancement is a history of trial and error, and this is certainly worth a try. If it works, it will usher mankind into the singularity, and then unbelievable things will happen. I would gladly give a lifetime of commitment to bring this about.

And I think I just may.

but I need advice and guidance to go here- I will certainly seek it.
Maybe some teacher out there understands what i wish to understand on an intuitive level, but lacks the knowledge to translate it into transferrable/re-creatable knowledge.
I will begin my learnings at the beginning of October in Astoria, Oregon. And then I will head south.

Here is my reading list, any guidance form anyone would be appreciated.

http://amzn.com/w/65MK0QPT19JM

Oh!
and this means I am selling all my earthly possesions that wont fit in my backpack.

buy my kick ass  giant flowhood please! it's the last one you'll ever need. it has a brand new filter, and it's in the marketplace.

I also have a ukulele in a case (martin...mahogany). I just got a backpacker uke, so this one is extra.


--------------------
- Saturday

I have a lot of friends in the drug culture. I try to help them out by posting on here, and sometimes they put stuff up without my permission, but I do not condone or commit any acts described.

“In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion"
-Carl Sagan

Anyone have some Macrocybe Titans spores or samples? PM me

Edited by Saturdayraining (09/07/10 11:30 PM)

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OfflineSaturdayraining
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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: Saturdayraining]
    #13163005 - 09/07/10 11:33 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Cool- learning about brainwaves now.

It would be interesting to try to isolate each of my brain wave patterns with biofeedback, especially theta waves, which seem to be linked to our sense of the passage of time- being "here" or not here.

breaking down my sense of time, and how i perceive it would be incredible.

As they say, I've got nothing but time

here's a very basic article on the differences in brain waves:

http://web-us.com/brainwavesfunction.htm


--------------------
- Saturday

I have a lot of friends in the drug culture. I try to help them out by posting on here, and sometimes they put stuff up without my permission, but I do not condone or commit any acts described.

“In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion"
-Carl Sagan

Anyone have some Macrocybe Titans spores or samples? PM me

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: Saturdayraining]
    #13163071 - 09/08/10 12:01 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I believe no other philosophy has combined quantitative observation, psychedelics, and meditation.




Well, almost all schools of yoga and Buddhism frown heavily on mind-altering drug use.


--------------------

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OfflineSaturdayraining
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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #13163115 - 09/08/10 12:14 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

So what?


--------------------
- Saturday

I have a lot of friends in the drug culture. I try to help them out by posting on here, and sometimes they put stuff up without my permission, but I do not condone or commit any acts described.

“In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion"
-Carl Sagan

Anyone have some Macrocybe Titans spores or samples? PM me

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: Saturdayraining]
    #13163160 - 09/08/10 12:25 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

So it is the reader's fault for you poor presentation?

You wax poetic about Vipissana and tradition in one paragraph and then want to ignore it so you can fit drug use in there somewhere?

And then hope to find a teacher to teach you the exact way you want to be taught as if that is how it works.

OK. Sounds like a clear plan...


--------------------

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Offlinemusicosm
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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: Saturdayraining]
    #13163163 - 09/08/10 12:26 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I can see your dead serious about this by the extensiveness of your reading list.  Go for it man.  I think your biggest task will be to bridge the fields you mentioned together in a coherent manner.  Which is a daunting task considering the fields mentioned seemed to operate out of wholly different paradigms (ie how the hell are you going to quantify a psychedelic experience?).  Also, psychedelics have a habit of disregarding the objectives of those who enter into the psychedelic realm (which is good I think, cause they often offer us more suitable objectives). -> This kinda gets into my earlier point.  One minute you think your careening towards being the inventor of something that brings humanity towards singularity, the next minute (perhaps after experiencing ego death) you realize the  triviality of your own worldly pursuits.  Or perhaps even, you realize that this device you seek (that will usher humanity towards singularity) is not something as fancy as A.I, but as simple as love and compassion for other beings.

I too practice vipassana meditation, and so I know what it entails.  I wasn't trying to convince you that it doesn't offer real insight of the mind or anything else.  I was only trying to say that central to insight meditation is that insights are formed by observing reality as we come to perceive it more purely (stripping away bias and so forth).  Because its about observation and not creation, there is no telling what one will find.  Now, were talking some deep deep shit here, so it seems a little crazy to come into vipassana with many predispositions about what you will find or where it will take you.  Now I mean no transgression, but it seems to me that you are supposing a lot about where insight meditation (and psychedelics) will take you and what discoveries might be made, which is contrary to the attitude of vipassana meditation and contrary to the mysteriousness of the psychedelic experience.

Edited by musicosm (09/08/10 12:28 AM)

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OfflineSolving Ennui
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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: Saturdayraining]
    #13163277 - 09/08/10 12:51 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Saturdayraining said:
Cool- learning about brainwaves now.

It would be interesting to try to isolate each of my brain wave patterns with biofeedback, especially theta waves, which seem to be linked to our sense of the passage of time- being "here" or not here.

breaking down my sense of time, and how i perceive it would be incredible.

As they say, I've got nothing but time

here's a very basic article on the differences in brain waves:

http://web-us.com/brainwavesfunction.htm




look into binaural beat softeware, sbagen is my favorite and its effective

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OfflineSaturdayraining
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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: Solving Ennui]
    #13163376 - 09/08/10 01:29 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I do make some assumptions about what I will find. Perhaps this is my naiveté.
From my limited perspective, I see a truly ultimate goal.
Maybe in time, my perspective will change, and so will my expectations. But I must always have an eye for the future, even if if I train my awareness to be fully in the present.

and psychedelics take you places where awareness has no meaning, and I am no longer conscious of my investigation. Maybe there are things to be learned in that space, by some way that i can not fathom. but in lower doses,I can keep my mind, and still examine it.

and orgone, like I said, I expect no one has done anything like this, so I must have many teachers. Like all important discoveries, I must see how far current knowledge can take me, and take the extra step on my own.

Although- having people to take that journey with me would help, but I suppose I need to refine my questions before I can fully convince others to ask them.


--------------------
- Saturday

I have a lot of friends in the drug culture. I try to help them out by posting on here, and sometimes they put stuff up without my permission, but I do not condone or commit any acts described.

“In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion"
-Carl Sagan

Anyone have some Macrocybe Titans spores or samples? PM me

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OfflineSaturdayraining
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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: Saturdayraining]
    #13163403 - 09/08/10 01:41 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

And the singularity will result in the creation of hyper intelligences. We will eventually be immortal, written into the very fabric of reality, with minds as large and as intelligent as we can make them. We will no longer be bound by our petty evolutionary biology, but will transcend and become pure observers of physical process, altering at will our own mental state with the precision that comes with true understanding.

Life will no longer flicker in the dim coldness of reality, but will truly be at it's apotheosis.

I think, no matter the drug, this  incredible fact will affect me. Or at least, give me something worthwhile to come back to.

There can be no creation without observation, and I choose to think re-creation is the ultimate expression of observation. If I truly know how a car works (or at least good enough), I can design my own, and create new version that have never been seen before. Likewise i think with consciousness. There is something we are missing in all our neural network models, and I think I know the way to find it.


--------------------
- Saturday

I have a lot of friends in the drug culture. I try to help them out by posting on here, and sometimes they put stuff up without my permission, but I do not condone or commit any acts described.

“In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion"
-Carl Sagan

Anyone have some Macrocybe Titans spores or samples? PM me

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OfflineSaturdayraining
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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: Saturdayraining]
    #13163419 - 09/08/10 01:47 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mindfulness meditation and related techniques are intended to train attention for the sake of provoking insight. Think of it as the opposite of attention deficit disorder. A wider, more flexible attention span makes it easier to be aware of a situation, easier to be objective in emotionally or morally difficult situations, and easier to achieve a state of responsive, creative awareness or "flow".

Daniel Goleman & Tara Bennett-Goleman (2001), suggest that meditation works because of the relationship between the amygdala and the prefrontal cortex.Simply put, the amygdala is the part of the brain that decides if we should get angry or anxious (among other things), and the pre-frontal cortex is the part that makes us stop and think about things (it is also known as the inhibitory centre).

So, the prefrontal cortex is very good at analyzing and planning, but it takes a long time to make decisions. The amygdala, on the other hand, is simpler (and older in evolutionary terms). It makes rapid judgments about a situation and has a powerful effect on our emotions and behaviour, linked to survival needs. For example, if a human sees a lion leaping out at them, the amygdala will trigger a fight or flight response long before the prefrontal cortex responds.

But in making snap judgments, our amygdalas are prone to error, such as seeing danger where there is none. This is particularly true in contemporary society where social conflicts are far more common than encounters with predators, and a basically harmless but emotionally charged situation can trigger uncontrollable fear or anger - leading to conflict, anxiety, and stress.

Because there is roughly a quarter of a second gap between the time an event occurs and the time it takes the amygdala to react, a skilled meditator may be able to intervene before a fight or flight response takes over, and perhaps even redirect it into more constructive or positive feelings.

The different roles of the amygdala and prefrontal cortex can be easily observed under the influence of various drugs. Alcohol depresses the brain generally, but the sophisticated prefrontal cortex is more affected than less complex areas, resulting in lowered inhibitions, decreased attention span, and increased influence of emotions over behaviour. Likewise, the controversial drug ritalin has the opposite effect, because it stimulates activity in the prefrontal cortex.

Some studies of meditation have linked the practice to increased activity in the left prefrontal cortex, which is associated with concentration, planning, meta-cognition (thinking about thinking), and positive affect (good feelings). There are similar studies linking depression and anxiety with decreased activity in the same region, and/or with dominant activity in the right prefrontal cortex.

Meditation increases activity in the left prefrontal cortex, and the changes are stable over time - even if you stop meditating for a while, the effect lingers."




--------------------
- Saturday

I have a lot of friends in the drug culture. I try to help them out by posting on here, and sometimes they put stuff up without my permission, but I do not condone or commit any acts described.

“In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion"
-Carl Sagan

Anyone have some Macrocybe Titans spores or samples? PM me

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: Saturdayraining]
    #13163548 - 09/08/10 02:51 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

So you are "Boldly going where no man has gone before"?

OKEY DOKEY.


--------------------

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OfflineSaturdayraining
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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #13163552 - 09/08/10 02:54 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

isn't that how we move forward? as a species?


--------------------
- Saturday

I have a lot of friends in the drug culture. I try to help them out by posting on here, and sometimes they put stuff up without my permission, but I do not condone or commit any acts described.

“In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion"
-Carl Sagan

Anyone have some Macrocybe Titans spores or samples? PM me

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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: Solving Ennui]
    #13164392 - 09/08/10 10:19 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)


Quote:

Solving Ennui said:
your a dumb ass i explained the post was in no way towards you




Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

wasn't directed towards you



Actually it was. How much would you care to wager? Or will you man up? Nah...

It takes an IQ of 50 to grok the 'Reply to' function. Sorry I overestimated. :sorry:




Quote:

Solving Ennui said:
i use the box at the bottem of the page to post, it replies to the last poster, generally nothing positive or neutral i say is directed towards you, only negative things, then you can assume its about you




Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
So it is too difficult then. Got it.

When you are having a conversation in real life do you face away from the person you are intending to talk to and stare at a stranger, then get all hissy when the stranger asks you why you are addressing him?

Maybe you do...





:lol: not this again...
:rofl:
:rofl:
:rofl:



--------------------

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OfflineSaturdayraining
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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: Chronic7]
    #13171439 - 09/09/10 05:01 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

So, Ive thought of the following meditation:

first, I must internalize the concept of binary numbers.
they consist of only "existence" and "absence", which I must try to understand.  By learning to visualize the binary number system as the concepts, rather than "one's" and "zeros", I can begin to viusualize how natrual numbers are set up.

Then i can try t focus on how each binary number changes into the next number with addition of one. I want to be able to see the numbers flow into one another, understanding why the nature of "quantity" changes with the addition of one.

with this technique, I might be able to count in binary in a completely natural, non-contrived way, watching the numbers morph and change into one another.

If I can do that, then with each psychedelic, I can attempt to watch them again, and see how the logic of natural numbers, and my reality, changes. This will help me quantify and understand the neural processes representing the pure concepts of these natural numbers.


Help me refine it.


--------------------
- Saturday

I have a lot of friends in the drug culture. I try to help them out by posting on here, and sometimes they put stuff up without my permission, but I do not condone or commit any acts described.

“In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion"
-Carl Sagan

Anyone have some Macrocybe Titans spores or samples? PM me

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OfflineSolving Ennui
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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: Saturdayraining]
    #13173323 - 09/10/10 12:08 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Saturdayraining said:
So, Ive thought of the following meditation:

first, I must internalize the concept of binary numbers.
they consist of only "existence" and "absence", which I must try to understand.  By learning to visualize the binary number system as the concepts, rather than "one's" and "zeros", I can begin to viusualize how natrual numbers are set up.

Then i can try t focus on how each binary number changes into the next number with addition of one. I want to be able to see the numbers flow into one another, understanding why the nature of "quantity" changes with the addition of one.

with this technique, I might be able to count in binary in a completely natural, non-contrived way, watching the numbers morph and change into one another.

If I can do that, then with each psychedelic, I can attempt to watch them again, and see how the logic of natural numbers, and my reality, changes. This will help me quantify and understand the neural processes representing the pure concepts of these natural numbers.


Help me refine it.




could you explain a little further i don't really understand what you are trying to accomplish through this

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OfflineSaturdayraining
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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: Solving Ennui]
    #13173357 - 09/10/10 12:19 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Well, aThe most basic form of the universe is existence and non-existence. WIth these two concepts, any piece of information can be represented in binary. Addition, which is used in natural (counting) numbers, is another very basic concept. If I can fully internalize these concepts, then i understand some of the most basic logic in existance (they are axiomatic, to some extent, but I have to start somewhere).

Once I know what exactly it is I am looking at (pure information), it will give me a base for understanding what exactly psychedelics to to my understanding of reality.

I basically need to completely understand something that is universally basic, so that I can see what happens to it when my perception is altered. This will give me insight into how my mind conceptualizes the information stored in logic, and may eventually allow me to recreate the "logic" part of a neural system.


--------------------
- Saturday

I have a lot of friends in the drug culture. I try to help them out by posting on here, and sometimes they put stuff up without my permission, but I do not condone or commit any acts described.

“In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion"
-Carl Sagan

Anyone have some Macrocybe Titans spores or samples? PM me

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OfflineBrainstain
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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: Saturdayraining]
    #13174051 - 09/10/10 07:33 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

That's a nice thought saturday,kind of reminds me of a guy who did 40grams dry mushies and thought he was deciphering his own DNA and finding out the real size of the universe.You should click here.
But if you know what your doing i guess it might be possible,though i think that you are forgetting about the subconcious here.Alot going on in your head that you cant sense.
And how can you be sure of what is non-existence,how can you be sure that non-existence isnt just a higher dimensional value?Something we can't comprehend.The first place where to start with ideas like this is the fact that our concious exists due to the complex arrangement of matter,simply changing the way the matter flows or interacts with itself can cause distortions in reality.To really understand the universe you would have to map every atom/quark/smaller in the universe and calculate the way each of those interacts with other physical forces like gravity and propably take into account the existance of higher dimensions.But like i said,we all facilitate our own reality,perception of words and theyre meanings on humans differ,so everything is possible on an imaginary scale.But to know how perception is physically realized is something humans might just never understand.


--------------------
Hypnotized by your stillness in the candleflames i spin,deep into the dark vortex that is in all of us...i've got your worm in my head.

Edited by Brainstain (09/10/10 07:43 AM)

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OfflineSaturdayraining
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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: Brainstain]
    #13175143 - 09/10/10 12:42 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I dont think you will understand the universe even if you mapped out every particle- quantum theory prevents that.

and I am not trying to understand the WHOLE universe, objectively, I am trying to understand how I create my own world inside it. I am not taking sides on the "instrumentalist" versus "realist" debate, I am just working with what I've got.

If non-existance is higher dimensional, then it still makes sense to call it non-existence if no part of it can interact with this dimension. A universe that is separate and unknowable can not exist.


--------------------
- Saturday

I have a lot of friends in the drug culture. I try to help them out by posting on here, and sometimes they put stuff up without my permission, but I do not condone or commit any acts described.

“In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion"
-Carl Sagan

Anyone have some Macrocybe Titans spores or samples? PM me

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OfflineSolving Ennui
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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: Saturdayraining]
    #13175174 - 09/10/10 12:52 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

i agree, perhaps you oversimplify things, just because it isn't seen doesn't mean it has no impact on us

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OfflineSaturdayraining
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Re: Meditation to Understand Consciousness [Re: Solving Ennui]
    #13176856 - 09/10/10 06:57 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

if It has an impact on us, then it necessarily can be seen.
We only see things in the way that they interact with us- like gravity. We may not be able to "see" gravity, but because of it's interaction with matter, we can describe and begin to understand it.

likewise, even if something unfathomable affects my perception of the world, I can still observe what effects it has, which is all I really need to do.


--------------------
- Saturday

I have a lot of friends in the drug culture. I try to help them out by posting on here, and sometimes they put stuff up without my permission, but I do not condone or commit any acts described.

“In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion"
-Carl Sagan

Anyone have some Macrocybe Titans spores or samples? PM me

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