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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Whats w/ Republicans and Reagan? [Re: zorbman]
#7868811 - 01/12/08 11:54 AM (16 years, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
zorbman said:
Quote:
It is true that your false claim is off topic.
Phred, my true statement was on-topic as it was briefly mentioned to highlight the difference between the character of the current republican president and past ones. I didn't create a tangent- if anyone did it was zap by devoting an entire paragraph to it.
There you go with your lying again. You included that as an assertion of fact in the post I responded to.Quote:
Quote:
it would show respect to the thread's author to drop the tangent.
I had already dropped it. And to be fair, you should warn zap as well. I know you sympathize with his position, but fair is fair.
Nanny nanny poopoo zappa did it tootoo.
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 18 days
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Re: Whats w/ Republicans and Reagan? [Re: zappaisgod]
#7868817 - 01/12/08 11:56 AM (16 years, 20 days ago) |
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zappaisgod, when I suggested the "current recession" tangent be pursued in a separate thread, I meant the tangent should be pursued in a separate thread by all of us, not just zorb.
Phred
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zorbman
blarrr



Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Re: Whats w/ Republicans and Reagan? [Re: zappaisgod]
#7868842 - 01/12/08 12:07 PM (16 years, 20 days ago) |
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EDIT: See separate thread on economic recession.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
Edited by zorbman (01/12/08 12:15 PM)
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Whats w/ Republicans and Reagan? [Re: Phred]
#7868854 - 01/12/08 12:12 PM (16 years, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
Phred said: zappaisgod, when I suggested the "current recession" tangent be pursued in a separate thread, I meant the tangent should be pursued in a separate thread by all of us, not just zorb.
Phred
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Whats w/ Republicans and Reagan? [Re: johnm214]
#7869067 - 01/12/08 01:18 PM (16 years, 20 days ago) |
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I'll try to get it back on track here. I don't understand the Regan hype. I have a different perspective on him.
His years were the "got a problem, take a pill" era. The pharmaceutical industrial complex boomed during his time.
He built up the Military Industrial complex, trying to intimidate The Soviets. The Soviets went broke first. We all saw what happens when you are so preoccupied with becoming The global super Military power, at some point, you go bust and collapse. The Military Industrial complex is what is threatening to collapse out economy now.
His Era was the buy now pay later era, one of materialism, the yuppies, and designer labels , all funded by easy to get CREDIT CARDS, luring millions of Americans into major debt, trying to support an image they couldn't afford.
Then, we had regonomics and the trickle Down Theory. Debatable how well it worked and opinions vary based on which side you talk to, the top or the bottom. My opinion is that, the top benefited the most by it and the bottom got very little trickle in their wells.
In short, I think the Regan era is where America made a lot of ugly turns.
In his defence, i think he started out a decent man with a lot of common sense. That is the man Paul supported and helped to get elected. Paul turned on him, when Regan sold out.
After the assassination attempt, he changed, as if, he felt threatened to toe the Agenda of the elites, and if he wouldn't, VP Bush Sr. would.
I just think a lot of ugly turns for America were made during his terms.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
Edited by gettinjiggywithit (01/12/08 01:21 PM)
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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I forgot to add a biggie to my above ugly turns list during the Regan era. Regan quadrupled that National debt during his term. What's so fiscally conservative about that?
Quote:
The debt reached a postwar low in 1981, but more than tripled during the Reagan Era, due to the Republicans’ failed Trickle Down Economic Theories, which are again in practice in the GW Bush White House. Apparently, the idea is to give the rich all the money so they can spend it freely, with some of the leftovers trickling down to the peons to create enough of an economy for the wealthy to make more money. It works well for them, but not so well for the poor and middle classes.
Reagan started out as the head of the world’s richest nation – but ended with the U.S. as the world’s largest debtor. We were told then, as we are now, that the tide was irreversible that our children grandchildren would have to pay off this debt
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http://viewfromthemeadow.com/debttops9T.html
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 5 months, 23 days
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Conservatives will never count "Defense Spending" in regards to the deficit.
It is a black hole of finance as far as they are concerned.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Quote:
gettinjiggywithit said: I'll try to get it back on track here. I don't understand the Regan hype. I have a different perspective on him.
His years were the "got a problem, take a pill" era. The pharmaceutical industrial complex boomed during his time.
He built up the Military Industrial complex, trying to intimidate The Soviets. The Soviets went broke first. We all saw what happens when you are so preoccupied with becoming The global super Military power, at some point, you go bust and collapse. The Military Industrial complex is what is threatening to collapse out economy now.
Defense spending is 4% of GDP. Much less than our entitlements.Quote:
His Era was the buy now pay later era, one of materialism, the yuppies, and designer labels , all funded by easy to get CREDIT CARDS, luring millions of Americans into major debt, trying to support an image they couldn't afford.
And this is different from now how? Or the nineties, how? http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0816/p14s01-wmgn.html
Quote:
• In 2003, the average credit-card debt of US households with at least one card was $9,205, up from $2,966 in 1990, according to the research firm CardWeb.com.
Indexed for inflation that is probably actually an increase since Reagan.
Quote:
The personal savings rate in the United States averaged about 8 percent from just after World War II through the 1980s. But since 2000, it has averaged just under 2 percent, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis.
Doesn't quite seem to suit your premise. It was actually after Reagan left office that what you are describing occurred.Quote:
Then, we had regonomics and the trickle Down Theory. Debatable how well it worked and opinions vary based on which side you talk to, the top or the bottom. My opinion is that, the top benefited the most by it and the bottom got very little trickle in their wells.
There can be no denial that the country was utterly fucked after Carter. Nor can it be denied that it got much better under Reagan. See this graph of real median household income. http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/medhhinc.html Flatten it out and it shows a pretty straight gentle upward slope. Trickle down or whatever, there was an increase in real wealth for the middle guy.Quote:
In short, I think the Regan era is where America made a lot of ugly turns.
In his defence, i think he started out a decent man with a lot of common sense. That is the man Paul supported and helped to get elected. Paul turned on him, when Regan sold out.
After the assassination attempt, he changed, as if, he felt threatened to toe the Agenda of the elites, and if he wouldn't, VP Bush Sr. would.
I just think a lot of ugly turns for America were made during his terms.
Of course you do. You're a liberal.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Quote:
gettinjiggywithit said: I forgot to add a biggie to my above ugly turns list during the Regan era. Regan quadrupled that National debt during his term. What's so fiscally conservative about that?
Nothing, and it came back to bite George H.W. Bush in the ass because he got left holding the bag. However, that doesn't necessarily support the contentions of the meadow people.
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art
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 331
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
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Re: Whats w/ Republicans and Reagan? [Re: zappaisgod]
#7870195 - 01/12/08 06:25 PM (16 years, 20 days ago) |
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correct me if I am wrong, but don't we spend more on national security than anything else? What kills more Americans, Terrorists or...heart disease, cancer, and other medical problems.
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 5 months, 23 days
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Re: Whats w/ Republicans and Reagan? [Re: art]
#7870202 - 01/12/08 06:26 PM (16 years, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Defense spending is 4% of GDP. Much less than our entitlements.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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Evolving
Resident Cynic


Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
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Re: Whats w/ Republicans and Reagan? [Re: art]
#7870221 - 01/12/08 06:30 PM (16 years, 20 days ago) |
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Actually, we spend more on empire and term it, "National Security." The funds needed to protect our borders and air space are a lot less than what we spend policing the world and attempting to remake other nations' political structures to systems that are more amenable to the desires of the wealthy and powerful who run our government.
-------------------- To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.' Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence. Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains. Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.
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it stars saddam
Satan

Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 15,571
Loc: Spahn Ranch
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Re: Whats w/ Republicans and Reagan? [Re: johnm214]
#7870273 - 01/12/08 06:40 PM (16 years, 20 days ago) |
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My dad has a bronze statue of Ronald Reagan in his living room.
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 5 months, 23 days
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-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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