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Offlineblackegg
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Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws?
    #7882223 - 01/15/08 08:54 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

What do you all think of this line of reasoning...

It seems to me that the states that have the worse history of arresting and fining peaceful people for possessing/growing recreational drugs are invariably Republican?

I'm not trying to bash anybody out there but, if you're leaning Republican, how do you reconcile the party's stance against "illegal drugs" and your presence here at the Shroomery?

Personally, I agree with the Republican platform of a strong military and little government interference with buisness (and really with little government interference with my life.)

As a side note, I'm running a small experiment to see if I can actually take part in a reasonable, well intentioned, intellegent discussion on the internet.

Thanks for reading...


--------------------
'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: blackegg]
    #7882288 - 01/15/08 09:12 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

Both Republicans and Democrats are equally retarded when it comes to drug laws. They're all cut from the same dough.

The republicans tend to be the ones who propose harsher penalties though. 10 Years ago Newt proposed a bill that would give the death penalty to anyone caught importing 1lb or more of pot into America.

What is this? Southeast Asia? Fuck that shit.


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Offlinewortiesbo
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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: BrAiN]
    #7882304 - 01/15/08 09:17 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

BrAiN said:

10 Years ago Newt proposed a bill that would give the death penalty to anyone caught importing 1lb or more of pot into America.

What is this? Southeast Asia? Fuck that shit.




this is what i dont understand. where do they get their reasoning for this kind of harsh penalty?


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: wortiesbo]
    #7882315 - 01/15/08 09:21 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

Because they still believe 70 year old propoganda


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Offlineblackegg
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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: BrAiN]
    #7882352 - 01/15/08 09:35 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

"Both Republicans and Democrats are equally retarded when it comes to drug laws. They're all cut from the same dough"

To use an well-worn expression:
"Sshit floats"
Both parties do seem to have reasonable, 'progressive' candidates that are simply laughed off the stage every time. That's my opinion at least.


"The republicans tend to be the ones who propose harsher penalties though. 10 Years ago Newt proposed a bill that would give the death penalty to anyone caught importing 1lb or more of pot into America.

What is this? Southeast Asia? Fuck that shit. "

Exactly, that's why I'm wondering: How can people defend the Republican Party here at a site thats (at least partially) about the study of psychoactives?

It's a strange phenomenon to me.

Are they reacting to the Democrats Bullshit?
Do they truly believe that Republicans are better for the common Shroomery Member?
Are they business people who thrive in Anti-Drug Hysteria?
Inquiring minds WANT TO KNOW...


:grin:


--------------------
'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison


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OfflineRosettaStoned
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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: wortiesbo]
    #7882376 - 01/15/08 09:41 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

this is what i dont understand. where do they get their reasoning for this kind of harsh penalty?




Some of the major politicians have been involved in smuggling drugs into this country. Clinton comes to mind. They have the power to get planes into this country that do not get suspected since they are congressmen/governors/cia/ect. They make a killing off keeping drugs illegal so they can help finance wars, elections, bribes, "aid" money and the like.

It was well learned during prohibition what happens when you make something people want illegal: they get it anyway. People like Al Capone got filthy rich and built empires within the US. The govt learned from it, either that or the mob people joined the govt. Which ever happened the govt started joining the drug trade. Very easy way to get money without having to have to ask congress so they can spend it whatever criminal way they choose with almost zero risk.

Don't believe me? On 9/11/01 jeb bush ordered the airports where the "hijackers" came from to be raided. They confiscated all material related to the arabs who trained there. Along with that material they confiscated a plane which was leased or owned by a republican congressman that was FULL of heroine. It certainly didn't make front page news as 2 buildings had fell in new york. But it read in the papers as "Largest Heroine Bust In FL State History". No one was ever jailed for it. It was buried in the news. I don't remember the congressman as its been a while but someone can research it if they feel like it. He is no longer in congress but I'm sure he's still filthy rich. Probably belongs to Zappa's lobbying firm :lol:


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"Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa


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InvisibleTHE KRAT BARON
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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: blackegg]
    #7882385 - 01/15/08 09:44 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

Some people who sell (insert illegal substance x) want nothing more than the drug war to go on because they would be out of business if drugs were to become legalized and taxed by the government. I don't know anything about the government smuggling conspiracy theories the guy above me mentioned, I'm just talking about your average Joe dealer.


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m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: blackegg]
    #7882408 - 01/15/08 09:51 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

It seems to me that the states that have the worse history of arresting and fining peaceful people for possessing/growing recreational drugs are invariably Republican?




And what if my feeling is that the states with the worst track record are Democrat?

Anyone can say anything if they disregard fact. Where is the evidence which leads you to conclude the states with the most draconian drug policies are Republican?





Phred


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Offlinevintage_gonzo
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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: RosettaStoned]
    #7882412 - 01/15/08 09:52 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

Yea, you need a link for that one.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: Phred]
    #7882433 - 01/15/08 09:59 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

It's tough to say so maybe we should limit our references to post WWII era... seeing as how the name "democrat" and "republican" seem to shift evert 30-40 years or so.

What may have bene considered very "demorat" during teddy roosevelt's time may be considered quite "republican" by today's standards.

And if we limit ourselves to this time period I'd say Republicans definately have been more of the aggressors against drugs. One word: "REAGAN".

Then again, lately, republians have been in control, it seems, generally more than the democrats so for a lot of drug legislation it may be easy to blame the republicans.


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OfflineRogerRabbitV
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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: BrAiN]
    #7882589 - 01/15/08 10:30 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

Where is the evidence which leads you to conclude the states with the most draconian drug policies are Republican?





Ten years ago in Oklahoma, a republican stronghold, law enforcement raided my place because they 'discovered' my sons patch with ten small plants. They filed charges of cultivation against me for being the property owner, and were seeking a 500 year sentence. Really.

After moving to Washington State, a democratic stronghold, my daughter was discovered doing something similar, as well as having a huge collection of bongs and other glassware. They pulled up her plants, and took her weed, but she kept all her pipes and didn't get busted or have any charges filed whatsoever. Pretty big difference.

The reasoning is simple. Republicans are the largest recipients of pharmaceutical bribes(oops, campaign contributions). Who the hell is going to pay $15 per pill for Prozac when you can grow your own weed in the backyard for free?
RR


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7883131 - 01/15/08 12:13 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 09:37 AM)


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: blackegg]
    #7883161 - 01/15/08 12:17 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 09:37 AM)


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #7883171 - 01/15/08 12:19 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

Nothing wrong with a big military if you don't use it for the wrong purposes.. in fact.. it's neccessary. If you're a superpower and you DON'T have an advanced military, you're a sitting duck for the next Hitler.


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Offlineblackegg
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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7883212 - 01/15/08 12:27 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

Well, this is a map of the marijuana laws in the US:
http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=4516

and here's a link to a map that shows how the states voted in the last two presidential elections:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:2004_US_elections_map_electoral_votes.png

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:ElectoralCollege2000-Large-BushRed-GoreBlue.png

These maps kinda work in reverse, showing states that have *decriminalized* marijuana or have medical mj and how they voted in 2000 and 2004.


Those are just a few links that I know of offhand.





Personally, I have also lived in Portland, Eugene, Olympia WA,  Northern California, Rochester NY and I was born and raised in San Antonio Texas...so from that perspective I can speak about the differences between the conservative leaning state in which I was born and those I have lived in / visited.

I have been arrested only twice in my life... both times in Texas.

Once because my friends from NY went to observe two police officers 'roughing up' a homeless man across the street as we stopped for gas. I wasn't aware of this..I was inside buying a beer otherwise I would've warned them!
(They 'observed' the incident then as we were leaving the gas station in the car we were pulled over for 'failing to yield to on-coming traffic'.)

The police officer came up to the BACK window where my friend from NY was seated and asked to see HER I.D. not the driver.

She said "Let me see *your* I.D.!"  (Which again shows how different the norms are in these two states, I wouldn't even DREAM of saying that to a cop! or 'observing' police in the first place.)

  After this he ordered all of us out of the car... asked if he could search the car I told my friends we had the right to say "no" which they did, he ordered up some drug dogs from his car and we spent the night in jail.

The other time wasn't quite so blatant but still ridiculous. I was pissing in a field, in the dark, and a park ranger drove up and floodlighted me then searched my truck which was parked and locked nearby. I was lucky to get away without an indecent exposure conviction and have to register as a sex offender the rest of my life because the guy was a real sleaze-bag and said I was facing traffic and could be seen from the road.
Which , honestly, was a lie.
He was also talking at length with the cop who came to take me in about a stripper he met that liked to have sex with men in uniform.
classy.


anyways, there are my war stories.
for what they're worth.
hope that didn't veer too far off topic.
:crazy:


--------------------
'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison


Edited by blackegg (01/15/08 11:25 PM)


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: BrAiN]
    #7883224 - 01/15/08 12:30 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 09:38 AM)


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #7883286 - 01/15/08 12:39 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

EntheogenicPeace said:
Yes, the U.S. military is solely used as a force of "freedom" in the world, never to advance the economic interests of a small minority of the world's population.




I'm not talking about what it's CURRENTLY being used for I'm just saying you need an extremely strong defense.

Quote:

When you're far & away the world's largest arms dealer,




I call B.S. on that... every country where we get accused of selling a bunch of crap to fuel a fire going on, Russia/USSR has always sold TONS more than us.

And how the fuck did you jump to Iran? All I said is that countries that are superpowers like us need a strong military to defend ourselves if another hitler comes along. I never said anything about endorsing any kind of regime change. If you've read ANY of my posts over the past year you'd know I'm against that type of policy.

You reek of straw men. With your last post you've successfully won many arguments, arguments that I've never even made. Congrats. You just beat up a straw man. Here's a cookie.


Edited by BrAiN (01/15/08 12:45 PM)


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Offlineblackegg
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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: blackegg]
    #7883299 - 01/15/08 12:43 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

"How do you reconcile your support for a "strong military" (i.e. excessive military spending for the purpose of enriching military contractors & companies who benefit by being able to dictate the economics of subjugated nations) with your professed belief in limited government, being as war & militarism are the primary & foremost examples of big government in the world? "

Good point... I should've been more precise about "Big Government".

In addition to what BrAin said, let me say that...
I don't mind a Big Government who takes care of it's citizens, picks people up out of the gutter occasionally and makes sure we aren't being needlessly screwed by monopolies / environmental waste, or terrorists.
Of course some would like to think they're 'taking care' of me by keeping me off 'illegal drugs' and making sure I read my bible every day...

But this is kinda beside the point.
If you want to start another thread about 'People Who SAY They Hate Big Government and Yet Support Big Military' I'll be glad to contribute to it!


:sun:


--------------------
'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison


Edited by blackegg (01/15/08 11:26 PM)


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: blackegg]
    #7883307 - 01/15/08 12:46 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

I totally agree with you... but this entire thread has been full of people putting words in my mouth. I never said anything about a big gov't.

All I said was that we need a strong military for national defense and suddently everyone thinks I'm talking about how we need to invade other countries.

What's wrong with just saying that I want the U.S. to be able to defend it's own people? Why does not wanting to have a nuke detonated in my backyard or an army invading my neighborhood suddenly make me a target for a bunch of people's rants that have nothing to do with anything I'm talking about?

Apprently some people just don't mind being an open target.


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Offlineblackegg
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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: BrAiN]
    #7883331 - 01/15/08 12:51 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

"What's wrong with just saying that I want the U.S. to be able to defend it's own people?"
nothing.

Um..I've started another thread for this "Military Spending" issue ...not that you *have* to use it or anything.
:cheers:


--------------------
'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison


Edited by blackegg (01/15/08 12:58 PM)


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: BrAiN]
    #7884407 - 01/15/08 04:37 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 09:38 AM)


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Offlineblackegg
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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: blackegg]
    #7884417 - 01/15/08 04:39 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

Yeah, dude, um I created a specific thread for this.:tongue:


--------------------
'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison


Edited by blackegg (01/15/08 04:42 PM)


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OfflineCubie
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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: blackegg]
    #7884447 - 01/15/08 04:45 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

The republicans started it al mannnnnnn..
They started all the propaganda. They started prohibition and schedeling.

You know what I just thougt.... Its kinds like our government is playing good cop bad cop on I
Us to make us conform......


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: blackegg]
    #7884480 - 01/15/08 04:53 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 09:38 AM)


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #7884513 - 01/15/08 05:00 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

I concur.

That and I think most psycho christians are against it for religious reasons as well.. and most psycho christians tend to be republicans.


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InvisibleLuddite
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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: blackegg]
    #7884677 - 01/15/08 05:25 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

How did it come about that mandatory minimum sentences for drug offenses were passed in 1986?

In 1986, the Democrats in Congress saw a political opportunity to outflank Republicans by "getting tough on drugs" after basketball star Len Bias died of a cocaine overdose. In the 1984 election the Republicans had successfully accused Democrats of being soft on crime. The most important Democratic political leader, House Speaker "Tip" O'Neill, was from Boston, MA. The Boston Celtics had signed Bias. During the July 4 congressional recess, O'Neill's constituents were so consumed with anger and dismay about Bias' death, O'Neill realized how powerful an anti-drug campaign would be........

Read more here:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/snitch/primer/

The dope fiends on this forum are more responsible for draconian drug laws than anyone else.


Edited by Luddite (01/15/08 05:29 PM)


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: Luddite]
    #7884717 - 01/15/08 05:32 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 09:39 AM)


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Offlineblackegg
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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #7884938 - 01/15/08 06:18 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

Wow, that Frontline link was excellent.

"It (the "War on Drugs") largely remains a bipartisan effort, although the more progressive voices in this area tend to be in the Democratic Party."

Hmmm. and yet I can't even *fathom* a Republican Presidential Candidate .admitting. to smoking marijuana and snorting coke being as far along the primaries as Obama and with this much approval.

And a Republican Mayor caught smoking crack?
and being re-elected??
Fuggetaboutit!!


--------------------
'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison


Edited by blackegg (01/15/08 06:22 PM)


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: blackegg]
    #7885380 - 01/15/08 07:36 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 09:39 AM)


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OfflineMrBump
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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: blackegg]
    #7885431 - 01/15/08 07:45 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

repubs brandish themselves as the party that is tough on crime, and the party that keeps the God fearing citizens safe. drug dealing and possession are crimes. so Repubs generally push for harsher penalties b/c they feel that being tough on crime is a good talking point to get them, or keep them, employed as politicians.


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If it weren't for the bloody corpses, I wouldn't have any corpses at all.

There are two ways to get to the top of an oak tree: start climbing or sit on an acorn.

Are you a carrot, an egg, or a coffee bean?


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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #7885492 - 01/15/08 07:56 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

EntheogenicPeace said:


Quote:

The dope fiends on this forum are more responsible for draconian drug laws than anyone else.




Care to elaborate on this... being as I, despite having used more psychoactive substances than most people can name, have yet to violate the rights of another person even once despite having used "drugs" 1000+ times to date?




I'd be surprised if he returns to elaborate... he's a hit and run artist usually, but maybe my post will spur a return.


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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: johnm214]
    #7886166 - 01/15/08 09:47 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

"I'd be surprised if he returns to elaborate... he's a hit and run artist usually, but maybe my post will spur a return. "

That's kinda gives me the willies for some reason.

But anyways, so...um...getting at the heart of the matter:
Why would anyone regularly visit and engage in friendly banter here at The Shroomery and yet defend Republicans?

I'm starting to think many, many more of the entities I encounter here are aligned with the DEA. Which is scary...not that I have anything to hide.
No really.
But then again...never underestimate the power of plain old fashioned ignorance.

Perhaps many people are just selling "shrooms" and consider themselves businessmen and rely on their local upbringing of conservatives?
No, that doesn't makes sense either.
:confused:


--------------------
'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison


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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: blackegg]
    #7886193 - 01/15/08 09:52 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

BTW...what's up with the Reagan quote?


--------------------
'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison


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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: blackegg]
    #7886325 - 01/15/08 10:16 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

Oh come on... do you really believe everyone thinks drugs are the most important issue in politics today? I think its a civil rights issue and is VERY important, but others don't agree. People who do illegal drugs are pretty secure most of the time in knowing the authorities won't seek them out, and will only prosecute if they fall into their laps.

Not so w/ dealers and manufacturer's of course.


As for the Reagan quote... I think it is a great quote, and defines true conservatism- the kind I was taught about in middle/highschool. The kind you don't really see.

So there really is a place for republicans in a the drug user community. Those who pervert the traditional scope of the party to the post-nixon drug war hysteria are doing a disservice to the country and perhaps their party, but its really a aminor issue to most americans.

Most see "drugs are bad" and drugs are just another crime that needs to be prosecuted. People like feeling "those people" are worse then them. Drugs are a sort of accepted classism thesedays, allows people to poo poo on others not like them without seeming biggoted.


But I ask you, what's with you mentioning my quote?


Quote:

vThat's kinda gives me the willies for some reason.




and what does that mean?


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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: johnm214]
    #7886342 - 01/15/08 10:19 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

I think another reason people are so judgemental when it comes to drugs is that most people believe all the old crazy stereotypes like how creepy guys go up to playgrounds all the times in trenchcoats to get as many 5 year olds addicted to smack as they can.

When my mom found my pot stash I got in a lot of trouble.. back when I was 19. She started lecturing me and I was listening to all the crazy stuff she tried to pass off... She LITERALLY told me and believed that those "POT DEALERS" just "PRETENDED TO BE MY FRIENDS" and then they "LACE MY POT" with "HEROIN" to get me addicted.

"THat's how it works Brian. That's how drugs really work! I'm really disappointed in you."

I think that's what it's boiled down to... the fear in bullshit.


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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: BrAiN]
    #7886522 - 01/15/08 10:58 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

"But I ask you, what's with you mentioning my quote?"
:calledajoke:
I thought maybe your quote was ironic.

But thanks for the closest I've come all day to a straighforward answer to the question.

Basically,that there are more important issues that you're voting about besides drug laws and you don't mind sending other people to jail, wrecking their families and lives as long as YOU don't get caught.
:yourock:

But then again I guess that being immune to arrest would make it a pretty damn low priority on anyones list!



Of course I'm just being stupid here, just playing around really.


--------------------
'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison


Edited by blackegg (01/15/08 11:44 PM)


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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: blackegg]
    #7886535 - 01/15/08 11:01 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

I'm definitely not trying to say there's no room for you at The Shroomery because you're conservative or whatever...I'm just a newbie here and besides...the point of this is to figure you out, not chase you off.

I do wish you'd elaborate on your last post though because it genuinely seems a unique and interesting state of mind to me!

I guess the part we disagree on is whether "drug users" fear being arrested.
As a former user I definitely feared being arrested.
That fear is why I don't smoke now!
6 months in jail just isn't worth 'getting baked' at this point in my life.


P.S.
My understanding is that this isn't a Drug Users Community...it's Drug Education Community!


Edited by blackegg (01/15/08 11:43 PM)


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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: blackegg]
    #7886820 - 01/16/08 12:08 AM (16 years, 16 days ago)

for one, don't worry about offending me, you having a low post count doesn't make your points any less valid either


but also, you seem to misunderstand me. I was saying that many don't view drug policy and the criminalizing of private matters to be an issue of primary importance. I also didn't say I support the status quo or that I accept it as an imperfect but functional system.

In fact I reject it, I email my congress critters and am a member of drug policy alliance. I vote libertarian in Presidential and gubernatorial races and vote for the candidate of my concious in other races. Now this may not have much practical effect, but it makes me feel better. I think the acts someone takes on private property should not be interfered with at all provided it doesn't implicate someone who doesn't or cannot consent to be involved. And acts on public property should only be criminalized if under strict scrutiny there is a rational basis for the restriction and it is the least restrictive means to address the offending behavior.

I'm merely playing devil's advocate. We probably agree, I'm just saying that almost everyone here on the political board feels as I do that drugs should be decriminalized and available to the public; where we differ is the importance of this issue


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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: johnm214]
    #7887487 - 01/16/08 07:44 AM (16 years, 16 days ago)

It's entirely likely that those people who don't 'view drug policy and the criminalizing of private affairs as an issue of primary importance'...have not spent a month in jail for a few roaches.
Kinda hard to worry about foreign investment in the US economy when you're about to be rolled for sitting at the wrong table.

So perhaps I'm a tad bit shell shocked growing up in Texas and all.
:tongue:


Anyways, it's something I never considered..a novel idea.
thanks!


--------------------
'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison


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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: BrAiN]
    #7888607 - 01/16/08 03:17 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

BrAiN said:

When my mom found my pot stash I got in a lot of trouble.. back when I was 19. She started lecturing me and I was listening to all the crazy stuff she tried to pass off... She LITERALLY told me and believed that those "POT DEALERS" just "PRETENDED TO BE MY FRIENDS" and then they "LACE MY POT" with "HEROIN" to get me addicted.

"THat's how it works Brian. That's how drugs really work! I'm really disappointed in you."

I think that's what it's boiled down to... the fear in bullshit.




I'm 51 years old. I'm guessing your mother might be about my age, maybe a little older. I find it almost impossible to believe that anyone my age would have that attitude. Did she grow up in a convent?


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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7888758 - 01/16/08 03:46 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

well i could be wrong, but i think it has less to do with age and more to do with other factors of his mom's life.

and as for the rest of this discussion, i agree with johnm214 that drug laws might not be the most important issue in politics right now. it is an issue, and one that i'm very concerned about for certain reasons. but i also care about the economy, environment, and general wellbeing of the population.

taking a look at statistics, i'm only guessing but i say less than 50% of americans use drugs daily. i'm excluding prescription drugs, of course. it's probably more like 10%, and even that is shooting high. if someone could look it up it would be appreciated, i don't have the time right now.

anyways, would it not be a bit selfish to be preoccupied with an issue that only 10% of the population really care about? and whom a number of which would prefer drug laws staying the same, or even getting what i would call "worse".


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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: blackegg]
    #7888769 - 01/16/08 03:48 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

blackegg said:
Kinda hard to worry about foreign investment in the US economy when you're about to be rolled for sitting at the wrong table.




In my opinion, it's also kind of hard to be worried about where you're going to be scoring your next bag, or when you can light up your next joint, when so many horrible things are going on in the world right now. i'm not going to make a list of them at the moment, but i'm sure a lot of members on here would agree of their importance.


--------------------
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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7888926 - 01/16/08 04:22 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

BrAiN said:

When my mom found my pot stash I got in a lot of trouble.. back when I was 19. She started lecturing me and I was listening to all the crazy stuff she tried to pass off... She LITERALLY told me and believed that those "POT DEALERS" just "PRETENDED TO BE MY FRIENDS" and then they "LACE MY POT" with "HEROIN" to get me addicted.

"THat's how it works Brian. That's how drugs really work! I'm really disappointed in you."

I think that's what it's boiled down to... the fear in bullshit.




I'm 51 years old. I'm guessing your mother might be about my age, maybe a little older. I find it almost impossible to believe that anyone my age would have that attitude. Did she grow up in a convent?




She's 58... she was about 50 or 49 when we had this conversation. She grew up in the ghetto of DC. There wasn't much of a hippie scene there in the 60's when they were teenagers. My parents were pretty much bikers who drank a lot and raced cars... straight outta grease lightning.

And c'mon zappa.. just because you live in reality doesn't mean everyone else does. There was plenty of that mentality from the 30's and 40's where people where terrified of drugs because of their ignorance which spilled into the 50's and 60's... basically people who don't get out much and get all their information from drugs by watching TV and letting Reagan tell them what to think.


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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: BrAiN]
    #7888990 - 01/16/08 04:33 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Yeah, that's why I made the convent remark. She's a little older than I guessed but she was still in her twenties when almost the entire population of people just slightly younger than her were blazing away at levels not seen before nor since.


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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7890109 - 01/16/08 08:17 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Bah... potheads were still the minority even in the 60's.... plenty of people still stuck to the propoganda. And don't try to lecutre me like you were there. You'd 51. You were still wetting the bed during the late 60's. You came of age during the punk/disco area. Tell me about people dropping dead of heroin or coke overdoses in the late 70's and I'll take ya as an authority it :P


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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: blackegg]
    #7891848 - 01/17/08 05:46 AM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

blackegg said:
What do you all think of this line of reasoning...

It seems to me that the states that have the worse history of arresting and fining peaceful people for possessing/growing recreational drugs are invariably Republican?

I'm not trying to bash anybody out there but, if you're leaning Republican, how do you reconcile the party's stance against "illegal drugs" and your presence here at the Shroomery?

Personally, I agree with the Republican platform of a strong military and little government interference with buisness (and really with little government interference with my life.)

As a side note, I'm running a small experiment to see if I can actually take part in a reasonable, well intentioned, intellegent discussion on the internet.

Thanks for reading...





Off the top of my head, as far as pot is concerned..
Ohio and Tennessee have fairly lax laws about personal possession. Red states. Alabama's a lot more lax than you'd expect -- everyone down there smokes pot. Seriously, everyone. They just don't talk about it nor publicly approve, but privately? Holy shit.
Washington went blue for the presidential race, but aside from seattle it's a pretty red state. with pretty lax pot enforcement.
alaska? also red, also pretty permitting of pot.
arizona went red for the last presidential race -- but they also nearly legalized pot the other year for recreational use, iirc. i believe it was arizona and nevada that had that on their ballot, both were just a few percent away from passing.
oh, yeah, nevada went for bush too.


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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #7891964 - 01/17/08 07:25 AM (16 years, 15 days ago)

For a state that's pretty liberal (Maryland).... we have VERY tough laws for even small amounts of POT.

California, which tends to be very liberal as well, has extremely lax laws.

Maryland has very strict alcohol regulation (at least the counties within 20-30 miles of DC) while in California you can get a handle of Jack Daniels from the grocery store at midnight.

It's very strange. Maybe because the politicians that live in the DC burbs here in MD don't want the poor people around THEM to be able to get pot or alcohol but anywhere else and it's ok.


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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: BrAiN]
    #7892254 - 01/17/08 09:42 AM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Percent using drugs:
http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/publications/factsht/druguse/

fung_us among_us said:
"taking a look at statistics, i'm only guessing but i say less than 50% of americans use drugs daily. i'm excluding prescription drugs, of course. it's probably more like 10%, and even that is shooting high. if someone could look it up it would be appreciated, i don't have the time right now.

anyways, would it not be a bit selfish to be preoccupied with an issue that only 10% of the population really care about? and whom a number of which would prefer drug laws staying the same, or even getting what i would call "worse"."

I totally disagree...

1)I think you're saying that only people who use or *have used* drugs think changing direction in the drug policy is important.
I think a number of those who don't currently use are *very* interested. I'm one of them.

2)I still think these numbers are skewed...only 58% have ever used a drug?? I guess we're assuming that people will tell the truth about their drug usage to some stranger with a clipboard.

3)Also that National Drug Policy and incarceration rates, wrecked families, rehabilitation, etc etc don't affect the economy.
http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=5444
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1T4ADBF_enUS227US227&q=economic effects of War on Drugs


"In my opinion, it's also kind of hard to be worried about where you're going to be scoring your next bag, or when you can light up your next joint, when so many horrible things are going on in the world right now."

Actually I used to find that smoking a joint was a fine way to quit worrying about 'stuff' I had very little control over. As an inquiring mind (and one time college student) it was also a *great* relief from obsessive thinking/worrying.

Plus, it's not a contest of worry between "lighting up my next joint" and "horrible things going on in the world"...the reality of *getting thrown into prison* and possibly sodomized or beaten to a pulp, which are real possibilities, worries me far more than something happening on the other side of the world.
Sorry, but it's true.

"...i'm not going to make a list of them at the moment, but i'm sure a lot of members on here would agree of their importance."

AHA!
This is the question!
...are these issues truly more important to the average Shroomery Member?
That is the whole of my question!
:laugh:

Does being Republican equal being Anti-Drug
and if so...
How can someone who "is Republican" support the Shroomery?




What I seem to be reading is:

Republicans are usually (but not always) 'Anti-Drug'...

and that..

Yes you can support Republicans because other issues are more important to our happiness besides drug policies.

In other words...you accept the stupidity of Republican drug policy because the other, more important, policies of the Republican Party are right-on.

Which is fine, I'm trying not to judge just trying to understand.

So, Is this a good summary of the issue?

Interesting side note:What if we replace "anti-drug" with "Anti-Civil Liberties"? capitals and all.:smirk:

Okay, I haven't even had my f*&^%ng coffee yet...


--------------------
'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: BrAiN]
    #7892422 - 01/17/08 10:40 AM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

BrAiN said:
Bah... potheads were still the minority even in the 60's.... plenty of people still stuck to the propoganda. And don't try to lecutre me like you were there. You'd 51. You were still wetting the bed during the late 60's. You came of age during the punk/disco area. Tell me about people dropping dead of heroin or coke overdoses in the late 70's and I'll take ya as an authority it :P




The seventies were my decade. I would say well over half of the youth (16-25) were smoking by the second half. She had to have seen it happening, and except for making us stupid and lazy it clearly didn't kill many people. That's why I'm surprised she had that whole J Edgar Hoover thing going on. It was a rehash of 30 year old nonsense.


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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #7892518 - 01/17/08 11:09 AM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

Mushmonkey said:
Quote:

blackegg said:
What do you all think of this line of reasoning...

It seems to me that the states that have the worse history of arresting and fining peaceful people for possessing/growing recreational drugs are invariably Republican?

I'm not trying to bash anybody out there but, if you're leaning Republican, how do you reconcile the party's stance against "illegal drugs" and your presence here at the Shroomery?

Personally, I agree with the Republican platform of a strong military and little government interference with buisness (and really with little government interference with my life.)

As a side note, I'm running a small experiment to see if I can actually take part in a reasonable, well intentioned, intellegent discussion on the internet.

Thanks for reading...





Off the top of my head, as far as pot is concerned..
Ohio and Tennessee have fairly lax laws about personal possession. Red states. Alabama's a lot more lax than you'd expect -- everyone down there smokes pot. Seriously, everyone. They just don't talk about it nor publicly approve, but privately? Holy shit.
Washington went blue for the presidential race, but aside from seattle it's a pretty red state. with pretty lax pot enforcement.
alaska? also red, also pretty permitting of pot.
arizona went red for the last presidential race -- but they also nearly legalized pot the other year for recreational use, iirc. i believe it was arizona and nevada that had that on their ballot, both were just a few percent away from passing.
oh, yeah, nevada went for bush too.




i live in tenneesse and its not lax what so ever...
im on a years probation for the possession of rolling papers. thats it, no weed found or anything.
it was a year in jail but the sentence was suspended. if i had weed id be fucked. in jail for a year


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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7892622 - 01/17/08 11:35 AM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
The seventies were my decade. I would say well over half of the youth (16-25) were smoking by the second half. She had to have seen it happening, and except for making us stupid and lazy it clearly didn't kill many people. That's why I'm surprised she had that whole J Edgar Hoover thing going on. It was a rehash of 30 year old nonsense.




Oh Booo.. I think your numbers are totally exaggerated. 50% of the youth in the late 70's? I call bullshit on that.


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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: BrAiN]
    #7893266 - 01/17/08 02:26 PM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Buddy, you can call anything you want.


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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7893423 - 01/17/08 03:19 PM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Fine.. then I'm calling your wife a hhhhh,..h.h...... ahhhh

nevermind


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Re: Republicans = Anti Recreational Drug Laws? [Re: johnm214]
    #7893826 - 01/17/08 04:33 PM (16 years, 15 days ago)



Edited by Arp (01/17/08 05:01 PM)


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by alien-hybrid

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