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InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
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Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,248
Socrates Christ?
    #7692910 - 11/28/07 10:00 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Has anyone here considered the Socrates Jesus similarities?

-May or may not be an historical figure.

-never wrote anything down, both have dialogues.

-Socrates claimed to have been sent by God

-Came to teach wisdom

-Killed by the state for rabble rousing


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Socrates Christ? [Re: Rahz]
    #7695231 - 11/29/07 03:14 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

How do you teach wisdom?:monkeydance:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Socrates Christ? [Re: Rahz]
    #7695371 - 11/29/07 03:44 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

-Socrates claimed to have been sent by God



I don't believe I heard that one before.

As for the historical figure stuff, what struck me was when I took a class on Buddhism, and found that there were no contemporary records of Siddhartha Gautama, despite him being royalty. Same thing with Alexander the Great, although he left behind an empire as evidence of having been there.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Socrates Christ? [Re: Silversoul]
    #7695379 - 11/29/07 03:45 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

That's because you're dreaming all of this. There is always some cognitive dissonance in dreaming.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleNoetical
Flip Horrorshow


Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 9,230
Re: Socrates Christ? [Re: Silversoul]
    #7695599 - 11/29/07 04:43 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

see the apology

i'll dig up something soon


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InvisibleNoetical
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Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 9,230
Re: Socrates Christ? [Re: Rahz]
    #7695600 - 11/29/07 04:44 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I never knew there was a big controversy out on Socrates existence


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Registered: 04/01/07
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Re: Socrates Christ? [Re: Icelander]
    #7695601 - 11/29/07 04:45 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
That's because you're dreaming all of this. There is always some cognitive dissonance in dreaming.




Which is why you must always look at your hands to be sure.


--------------------


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InvisibleNoetical
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Registered: 11/28/04
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Re: Socrates Christ? [Re: Icelander]
    #7695605 - 11/29/07 04:45 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Dialectic and Caves?


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Invisibleimplicitli
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Re: Socrates Christ? [Re: Rahz]
    #7695964 - 11/29/07 05:53 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
Has anyone here considered the Socrates Jesus similarities?

-May or may not be an historical figure.

-never wrote anything down, both have dialogues.

-Socrates claimed to have been sent by God

-Came to teach wisdom

-Killed by the state for rabble rousing




start reading Joseph Campbell.


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OfflineLoveForGrowth
Registered: 08/26/03
Posts: 38
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
Re: Socrates Christ? [Re: implicitli]
    #7697241 - 11/29/07 11:42 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I think I have a set up joseph campbell dvds. He talks about mythology and compares different historical figures with others and shows how they are essentially the same thing.


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Socrates Christ? [Re: Noetical]
    #7697250 - 11/29/07 11:46 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Noetical said:
I never knew there was a big controversy out on Socrates existence




It's up in the air whether Socrates was a real person or whether he was just a literary tool for Plato to use to present his ideas, or whether he was the result of a collection of philosopher/writers.


--------------------


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InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
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Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,248
Re: Socrates Christ? [Re: Icelander]
    #7698788 - 11/30/07 12:45 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

>>>>How do you teach wisdom?

According to Socrates, it was by showing someone they do not know what they believe they know, but do not know. If you can help bring a person's ignorance to light, then they are wiser.

Socrates equated wisdom with self knowledge, and in stating that he was aware only of his ignorance, was indicating that he knew nothing of himself except that he knew nothing. Therefore, he is suggesting that wisdom is the absence of knowing something about the self.

Guys like Tolle and Adyashanti claim that they know what they are. They answer by stating that they are the watcher, or that they are awareness. Jana Dixon states that kundalini is aware of itself, and that on the most basic level, we are kundalini being aware of ourselves. I -feel- like I am the I am. On this level, logic fails. Must logic and words be required for knowing?

know: To perceive directly; grasp in the mind with clarity or certainty.

Are you the you are?


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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InvisibleIcelander
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Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Socrates Christ? [Re: Rahz]
    #7698805 - 11/30/07 12:50 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Most of my wisdom if there really is any was the result of knowledge backed by lots of experience brought on by lots of error. Some one could show me any ideas but until I lived out those ideas in personal experience there was no grokking.

Everybody claims(believes) one thing or another but IMO it's all subjective speculation. Just because Tolle wrote a book doesn't mean he's right or even telling the whole truth. In fact experience (wisdom) would cause me to doubt it.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
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Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,248
Re: Socrates Christ? [Re: Silversoul]
    #7698845 - 11/30/07 12:58 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

>>>>I don't believe I heard that one before.

I mis-spoke. After reading the dialogues, I started reading commentaries on them, and there are opinions that Socrates felt this way. He stated that God was his direct teacher, that God denied him to speak, and permitted him to speak at times. He claimed to have been granted special abilities by God, which surely would have been granted by God for a specific purpose. And, in reading the dialogues, it seems apparent to me that he was on a mission from God, in perhaps a slightly more serious tone than say the Blues Brothers.

As for his life as a historical person, I have very strong doubt. In his talk with Alcibiades, it's apparent that they spoke alone. Socrates seemed to bemoan the written word, and Alcibiades was a young man who did not know what he was doing. The dialogue was lengthy, so who would have been around to remember it? Plato could have taken liberties with the historical fact of Socrates existence. I haven't read all their is to read of him yet, so I cannot say for sure.

As for Buddha, tradition states that he was born from his mothers side. That, among other things, throws up a red flag to me.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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OfflineLion
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Registered: 09/20/05
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Re: Socrates Christ? [Re: Icelander]
    #7698896 - 11/30/07 01:09 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
That's because you're dreaming all of this. There is always some cognitive dissonance in dreaming.


LOL :lol:


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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InvisibleNoetical
Flip Horrorshow


Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 9,230
Re: Socrates Christ? [Re: Rahz]
    #7699489 - 11/30/07 03:17 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
Socrates equated wisdom with self knowledge, and in stating that he was aware only of his ignorance, was indicating that he knew nothing of himself except that he knew nothing. Therefore, he is suggesting that wisdom is the absence of knowing something about the self.





I don't agree with that at all.

Could you throw in some Stephanus Pagination for reference, because I just don't see it.


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InvisibleRahz
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Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,248
Re: Socrates Christ? [Re: Noetical]
    #7701583 - 12/01/07 01:03 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Noetical said:
Quote:

Rahz said:
Socrates equated wisdom with self knowledge, and in stating that he was aware only of his ignorance, was indicating that he knew nothing of himself except that he knew nothing. Therefore, he is suggesting that wisdom is the absence of knowing something about the self.





I don't agree with that at all.

Could you throw in some Stephanus Pagination for reference, because I just don't see it.




The quotes below are from First Alcibiades, I'm not sure how to reference them in the way you asked. The first quote seems to be in contrast with the statement "I know nothing", hence your "Socrates is an asshole" thread.

Socrates: But whether easy or difficult, Alcibiades, still there is no other way; knowing what we are, we shall know how to take care of ourselves, and if we are ignorant we shall not know.

-------

Socrates: Then this is that part of the soul which resembles the divine; and he who looks at this and at the whole class of things divine, will be most likely to know himself?

Alcibiades: Clearly.

Socrates: And self-knowledge we agree to be wisdom?

Alcibiades: True.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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InvisibleNoetical
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Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 9,230
Re: Socrates Christ? [Re: Rahz]
    #7701591 - 12/01/07 01:11 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks a bunch

for the dialogue

I'll be reading it in the next few days

cheers!


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InvisibleRahz
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Posts: 9,248
Re: Socrates Christ? [Re: implicitli]
    #7702636 - 12/01/07 12:24 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

>>>>start reading Joseph Campbell.

-A college teacher of literature, Joseph Campbell (1904-1987) was an editor and popularizer of comparative mythology. He created comprehensive theories of mythology that synthesized the discoveries of modern science, psychology, art history, and literature and used modern media, including television, to popularize his subject.

Ahh, cool. Thanks for the tip. Any specific books you would recommend?


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Socrates Christ? [Re: Rahz]
    #7702665 - 12/01/07 12:32 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
>>>>start reading Joseph Campbell.

-A college teacher of literature, Joseph Campbell (1904-1987) was an editor and popularizer of comparative mythology. He created comprehensive theories of mythology that synthesized the discoveries of modern science, psychology, art history, and literature and used modern media, including television, to popularize his subject.

Ahh, cool. Thanks for the tip. Any specific books you would recommend?



Try "The Hero With a Thousand Faces" or "The Power of Myth."


--------------------


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