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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Sinbad]
    #7304455 -

By strict and dogmatic, I mean teaching students that unguided Kundalini practice can trigger psychosis, that you cannot safely progress along the Tantric path without a teacher, etc...

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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Veritas]
    #7304495 -

Veritas said:
By strict and dogmatic, I mean teaching students that unguided Kundalini practice can trigger psychosis, that you cannot safely progress along the Tantric path without a teacher, etc...


That is all true, it can trigger psychosis, and you are just ignorant if you think it can't. As for the Tantric path, it depends what you mean by Tantric.

If you think you can go the Tantric path without instruction, its that kind of arrogance that will certainly get you into trouble. In order to learn to drive a car, one needs and instructor. In order to fly an airplane, one relies on a teacher. Same way with Tantra. We utilize very powerful tools, so one needs to get the proper instruction and teaching on how to utilize properly those tools, so that one does not harm oneself. These is all very logical common sense. You do not have to accept any dogma, but you have to know how to work with and handle the intense experiences that can arise from practicing such powerful methods.

I'm not sure what it is you mean by Tantric path, but if its just a hotch potch of your own creation, then it is not 'Tantra', its just that you have labeled as such.


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Edited by Sinbad (08/17/07 11:33 AM)

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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Sinbad]
    #7304531 -

Once again, do you have any actual support for your dire warnings, or are you just relying upon what your teachers have told you?

Cars and airplanes are not part of the natural "equipment" of a human being, unlike our energy system. To claim that our own energy is dangerous to us, based upon this invalid comparison, is like saying that walking is dangerous because humans cannot breathe underwater.

By the Tantric Path, I mean the deliberate practice of becoming aware of one's own life energy, and learning to relax and allow this energy to become active in one's body. This can include sexual intercourse, or can be practiced via exercise and/or meditation. This is the essence of Tantric practice, sans religious dogma and elitist nonsense.

Continuing to assert that I am ignorant and arrogant is NOT proving your points. Try again. Here's a hint, repeating over and over again that something is the truth is not a method of supporting your argument. If the answer here is that you choose to believe that unguided Tantric/Kundalini practice is dangerous, so be it. But do not attempt to assert as fact that which you cannot support.

I choose to believe that Tantric/Kundalini practice is as safe as any other personal growth experience, and that one can choose to follow a teacher or to study independently. I base this belief on my own experiences, the experiences of all the Tantra practitioners I have met and read about, the information provided to me by experts whom I trust, and my own common sense.

Edited by Veritas (08/17/07 11:29 AM)

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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Veritas]
    #7304569 -

This sect (Aghoris) are altogether a different class :lol:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aghori

For a more indepth study about their ways and practices, I suggest this book:

http://www.amazon.com/AGHORA-Left-Hand-God-Aghora/dp/0914732218/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/104-2417746-9955947?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187371403&sr=8-2

It was great fun reading this book.  It scared me though on the first reading.


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Pray, v.: To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy - Ambrose Bierce

Medical science has confirmed what the male world has known intuitively for millenia: that scratching your ass is a great aid to complex thinking.

Its God's responsibility to forgive the terrorist organizations such as Jaish, Lashkar etc.
Its our responsibility to arrange the meeting between them and god."
- Indian Armed Forces

"Hey Monkey!! Get Funky" - Tarzan and Jane

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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Veritas]
    #7304596 -

Veritas said:
Once again, do you have any actual support for your dire warnings, or are you just relying upon what your teachers have told you?

Cars and airplanes are not part of the natural "equipment" of a human being, unlike our energy system. To claim that our own energy is dangerous to us, based upon this invalid comparison, is like saying that walking is dangerous because humans cannot breathe underwater.

By the Tantric Path, I mean the deliberate practice of becoming aware of one's own life energy, and learning to relax and allow this energy to become active in one's body. This can include sexual intercourse, or can be practice via exercise and/or meditation. This is the essence of Tantric practice, sans religious dogma and elitist nonsense.

Continuing to assert that I am ignorant and arrogant is NOT proving your points. Try again. Here's a hint, repeating over and over again that something is the truth is not a method of supporting your argument.


I have already said that I know people specifically who have had the exact problems that I have mentioned. Go back and read. I don't need to prove my point either, it is self-evident to those that have had experience and know those that have had such experiences.

Our own energy system can become imbalance, and energy can flow through meridians in the body that can produce problems for the mind. Tantric practice utilizes the energy system in very precise ways, to produce certain experiences that are integral to the paths of 'transformation'. You can causes imbalances in your energy system through incorrect utilization of the methods, but since you are not even talking about any such kinds of practices, there is no basis for this discussion.

We are arguing over semantics, because your version of Tantra is only marginally related to the actual Tantric paths that are traditionally practiced. So please, do not confuse this topic of discussion with your own version of what you consider to be Tantra.


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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Sinbad]
    #7304611 -

It is not "my" version of Tantra, but rather the non-religious practice of Tantra.  Some refer to it as Western Tantra, but it is not my invention. :lol:

Since it has become clear that you are invested in your version of the truth, I'll just agree to disagree on this topic.  Suffice it to say, for those who are interested in investigating their own energy system, there ARE non-religious paths to follow.

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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Veritas]
    #7304703 -

I have no 'vested interest' in my 'idea' about the truth. But I do have a vested interest in protecting people that would experiment to there own detriment with powerful tools, that can cause problems if not used correctly with guidance.

It seems to me that perhaps the diluted and watered down version of ' western tantra', probably does not use the tools and methods I'm talking about. Therefore there probably isn't much harm in practicing the form of Tantra you are prescribing, except maybe the delusion of actually practicing an actual 'Tantric' path.

Tantra originated in India you see. You do not have to be 'religious' to receive the benefits of practicing Tantra at all, but you certainly do have to be 'taught' Tantra from someone who has realized its essence and can communicate how to practice it in a precise and safe way. This can only happen if it comes from an authentic lineage that has been taught and practiced in a precise way for thousands of years.

Yes, we will have to agree to disagree.


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Edited by Sinbad (08/17/07 12:25 PM)

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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Sinbad]
    #7304796 -

Quote:
It seems to me that perhaps the diluted and watered down version of ' western tantra', probably does not use the tools and methods I'm talking about. Therefore there probably isn't much harm in practicing the form of Tantra you are prescribing, except maybe the delusion of actually practicing an actual 'Tantric' path.



This is the dogmatic attitude to which I referred earlier.  Any approach which does not include the framework and ritual of the "original" is deemed less-than and ineffective.  How do you know that your methodology is the only effective means of practicing Tantra?  Because you were told so?  *sigh*  Many people seem to be experiencing tremendous results from this "watered-down" (:rolleyes:) version of Tantra.  Perhaps your teachers do not know everything there is to know about what works and what does not.

Think outside the box just a little bit...it won't hurt much, I promise.  :wink:

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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Sinbad]
    #7304845 -

This can only happen if it comes from an authentic lineage, that has been taught and practiced in a precise way.

Wow, this smacks of the pope insisting that he's the infallible word of God because he can trace his pedigree directly to the disciples.

Religious elitism is always the same whether it's expressed by a suicide bomber, a priest child molester, or a tantra instructor.

My way is the only way, and if you don't buy that, you're ignorant.

This always makes me giggle. :rofl:


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Diploid]
    #7305466 -

Apparently, the very first practitioners of Tantra suffered severe psychotic breaks which would tend to eradicate the practice entirely, sort of like the first eaters of poisonous berries.


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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7305715 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
Apparently, the very first practitioners of Tantra suffered severe psychotic breaks which would tend to eradicate the practice entirely, sort of like the first eaters of poisonous berries.


Nice analogy, but not entirely identical. Dying and a psychotic break aren't even remotely the same thing. A psychotic break could be navigated back then, as it still is now. Although, it is much harder to deal with in this day and age, in our busy societies. But it can be done, as I am a living testament among many. It's a simple warning, and nothing more.


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Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.

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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Sinbad]
    #7307044 -

Sinbad said:
So if you murder someone with full awareness, you are free from that action? :what:




thats a nice argument, but i dont think its a real possibility.

i think the point is if your exercise full awarness, you would have no motivation to murder anyone. how could you? how could anyones presence offend you at all? awarness disolves any kind of desire to practice homocide.

lets say someone does offend you to the point were that murderous desire arrises, awarness would shine light on the fact that your emotions are you own, and the outside source is just a mirror. your anger would disolve once you realize it has been a creation of your own ego. then the whole situation becomes hillerious and you probably will never be angry again. (so long as you are aware) you realize that you get to decide how you feel, and the thought of choosing to feel angry or miserable is ridiculous. why have i been doing that for so long?, you laugh to yourself.

Edited by Archemetis (08/18/07 08:59 AM)

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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: 2sky]
    #7307265 -

How old are you?:monkeydance:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Icelander]
    #7307292 -

yeah, this one seems to have swallowed it hook and sinker, but we should definitely toss the young ones back in the water.
but wait a minute,
there is a connection.

a weak one but one that can get under the skin of the vulnerable young tripper.

it's the graphics they use.

a mix between porn and psychedelic neon outlining, with fractal fire. using such graphics makes the story more appealing.
they use the person's dream familiarity as bait
then snare the mind with bull.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Icelander]
    #7330502 -

63


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To fly to the sun without burning a wing , and lie in the meadow and hear the grass sing - In Search of the Lost Chord / The Moody Blues - 1968

But for a tree to grow to the sky, it's roots must go to the very depths of hell itself - Tantra,the Supreme Understanding - osho / Only One Sky -rajneesh

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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: 2sky]
    #7330544 -

Just goes to show you.:monkeydance:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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