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OfflineMycelium
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questions about liquid growth
    #727101 - 07/06/02 08:12 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

I did the honey tek and I was just wondering a few things. Whats the longest I can wait before sucking out the mycelium from a honey water jar? Also, is it possible for spores in honey water to get contaminated? One of the jars has mycelium growth but it had a yellowish tint to it. I wasn't sure if this was because of the honey or what..

Thanks in advance.


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OfflineMycelium
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Re: questions about liquid growth [Re: Mycelium]
    #727291 - 07/06/02 09:40 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

bump


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Offlinetchyted
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Re: questions about liquid growth [Re: Mycelium]
    #727358 - 07/06/02 10:15 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

okeydoke, to start with, while honey-water seems simple, it is actually rather difficult.

the biggest reason it is hard, is that it takes a lot of practice to be able to recognize the differance between healthy mushroom mycelium and mold mycelium.

ordinarilllly musroom myk forms little beads or sometimes a carpet of slime on the bottom. if your water has caramelized honey in it, which is often the case if you use tap water, or cook it too much, it will form little floaties which look deceptivly like something desireable.

contam can very well be there from the very start, since your spore source is rarely perfectly pure. worse yet, the longer you incubate, the more likely it is that it will contamn.

Stamets says that after the first three to seven days it takes to show visible growth, that you have about two weeks to use it unless you refrigerate it. after that, since mushroom mycelium does not naturally live in water for extended periods, it becomes senescent (the dna fails to copy itself true to the original, and the whole mess loses viability)

for some reason, if you keep transfering small amounts to colonize new jars of freshly sterilized honeywater, the time period can be greatly extended. to a lesser degree, same is true of drawing off some of the innoculant for use, which lowers the population density in the jar. the theory has it, that some waste product may interfere with the viability. there is a limit to how long, mushroom myk can be cultured in licuid. mine and those of my neighbor's cat, allways get contamned long before viability is lost. this varies greatly from batch to batch and also specie and variety.

from a given spore sample, i always create several jars of honeywater innoculant, and the spawn jars that get knocked from them are labled with the date, specie, variety, and the jar from which the innoculant came from. this way, i know that a jar of honeywater is contamned if all the jars with a particular lableing seem to be contamning.

hope this helps, good luck.


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OfflineMycelium
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Re: questions about liquid growth [Re: tchyted]
    #727385 - 07/06/02 10:26 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks for the response! The one jar had lots of white mycelium growth that was at the very bottom of the jar, which from what you say, is a good thing. The other jar didnt have as much.. I'm guessing they are alright. We'll soon find out...

Thanks again!


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InvisibleSixTango
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Re: questions about liquid growth [Re: Mycelium]
    #727850 - 07/07/02 01:29 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Here is what myc looks like in a dry malt & dextrose solution. The liquid is -- light gold color(like pale beer). The tint of the picture & slightly blue jar makes the myc look pink. It is white. There are blue glass shards in the bottom of the jar to help cut up the myc when the jar is agitated, so the myc will not plug the syringe needle. This jar is about 10 days old. After 2 weeks -- you need to store it in a fridge, or it will usualy go bad.

Best bet is to innoc some millet or grain in jars w/filter disks. Then -- use millet or rye transfers. Liquid culture is like a crack head looking for a bag (contam). It will find contams, if they are around. But, if you have a good strain the has strong rizo growth. It will speed colonization up -- quick.



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OfflineTheDnB_One
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Re: questions about liquid growth [Re: Mycelium]
    #728179 - 07/07/02 04:19 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

did MF do something wrong?? here is what he did...

1 boiled 1 teaspoon of organic honey and 50 ml of mineral water for 2 mins in microwave.
2 sprayed anti bact windex on syran wrap
3 put side of syran wrap with almost completly dried windex over top of jar with honey water in it.
4 let in completly cool down on ice pack
5 with steril needle and defiantly viable non contamed spore syringe sucked up honey water through syran wrap.(he also sterilized the top side of the wrap too)
6 shake daily leave in dark

its been three days and i see tiny tiny spots floating around...but i dont think they are white but they are so small they are barely visible.


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OfflineMycelium
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Re: questions about liquid growth [Re: TheDnB_One]
    #728297 - 07/07/02 05:47 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Those little specks are the actual spores. I just put the spores into the jar with the honey water, instead of sucking up honey water with a syringe. I've never heard of letting the actual mycelium grow inside the syringe, is that what you're doing?


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OfflineTheDnB_One
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Re: questions about liquid growth [Re: Mycelium]
    #728605 - 07/07/02 09:31 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

yes, thats exactly what im doing. i read this post right here:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Forum2&Number=715153&page=4&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

does mycelium need o2 to grow?


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OfflineMycelium
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Re: questions about liquid growth [Re: TheDnB_One]
    #728611 - 07/07/02 09:35 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

I was just reading a post about mycelium and o2, but I can't remember if it needs it or not. I know that o2 causes aborts when fruiting... but I'm pretty sure mycelium needs it.(Can somebody more advanced answer this?)

As for growing the mycelium in a syringe... i would imagine you could get more mycelium if you just let it grow in a jar. But I guess whatever floats your boat...


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OfflineTheDnB_One
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Re: questions about liquid growth [Re: Mycelium]
    #730573 - 07/08/02 06:33 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

bump.


my friend told me that the syringe looked kind of milky today but not a clumpy type milky like the whole liquid is milky...its been 4 days now...should he just try to innoculate something? or do you think he should wait two more days?


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OfflineMycelium
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Re: questions about liquid growth [Re: TheDnB_One]
    #730600 - 07/08/02 06:46 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

I imagine it wouldn't hurt to wait 2 more days. Make sure you shake up the syringe a little bit to break apart large clumps of mycelium. As for waiting, its all on whether you want to wait 2 more days or innoculate now.
You could try innoculating all but 1 cc of the mycelium solution and then try sucking up some more honey water into the syringe...


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Offlinetchyted
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Re: questions about liquid growth [Re: TheDnB_One]
    #734246 - 07/09/02 04:42 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

reply to should you yuse th syringe. the only real way to know for sure if your licuid innoculant is good is to use it. it will go bad if you don't, so what are you waiting for?


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OfflineMycelium
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Re: questions about liquid growth [Re: tchyted]
    #734468 - 07/09/02 06:02 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

I'm waiting till Thursday. I would've done it sooner but I'm doing this at my friend's apartment and I can't have all the fans off, and be spraying lysol, etc. when my friend's girlfriend is there because she will whine and bitch and I will end up smacking the bitch across her face. So I have to wait until she's at work. But, I will find out Thursday....


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OfflineTheDnB_One
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Re: questions about liquid growth [Re: Mycelium]
    #735507 - 07/10/02 05:02 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

theres probably still no growth but my friend said he is going to innoculate some jars today with it. what could have caused NOTHING AT ALL to grow? my friend didnt cause thermal death because the water was chilly...he did a finger test after he sucked up all he needed. since there was only 1 ml of spores shoud my friend inject all 10 ml of solution in one jar?


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OfflineMycelium
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Re: questions about liquid growth [Re: TheDnB_One]
    #735626 - 07/10/02 06:47 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

If all 10 ml. of the syringe is full of mycelium, then you can split the 10 ml into seperate jars if you'd like. Yes, you can inject all 10 ml into one jar but thats sort of like overkill. It will probably colonize the jar in a lot less time, but it'd probably be better to split it up. But, again, its your choice when it comes to that.
Also, you were saying that theres 'probably' no growth. But before you were saying you saw milky white stuff in the syringe. This is most likely mycelium. One of my honey jars has some milky white mycelium but not a lot like the other one. When I was squirting the spores into the jars I noticed that I hadn't put enough honey in the jars, so I put another teaspoon of honey in ONE jar. The jar that I put more honey in grew 5 times more mycelium than the other jar(which had mycelium growing, but I still saw visible spores floating around which my friend confirmed for the second time yesterday). Anyways, your problem might be you didn't have enough honey or dextrose or whatever you're using in the water. If you're using honey make sure the water is a dark golden color after you dissolve the honey.
Just thought I'd share my experiences, hope this helps!


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