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OfflineMark_W
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Registered: 05/19/07
Posts: 347
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Last seen: 8 months, 16 days
Re: Revolutionary potential of psychedelics [Re: dblaney]
    #7155492 - 07/10/07 08:20 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I'm merely speculating as to which psychedelics are the most likely to help bring about social change. Like you said, this is not the biggest factor in the equation, people use psychedelics for a variety of reasons.
When you say "psychedelics like mushrooms and lsd just amplify the functioning of the mind", this seems like an extreme over-simplification of the matter. These substances are two of the most mysterious substances people have ever encountered. I could see your statement being more true for things like cocaine and the amphetamines, but it seems ridiculous to reduce psychedelics to that.


--------------------
Let the State Disintegrate
-Leary

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Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: Revolutionary potential of psychedelics [Re: Mark_W]
    #7155534 - 07/10/07 08:38 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Well, it is what they do, regardless of your dislike of the simplification. From my experience, and that of everyone else that I've talked with who has shared the psychedelic experience, it seems psychedelics amplify the functioning of the mind, inducing sensory distortions, and intensifying thought and feeling, making one's conditioning more readily observable, and thus making it easier to gain perspective and insight into yourself and even the world around you.

Cocaine and amphetamines can't really do all that too well.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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OfflineMark_W
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Registered: 05/19/07
Posts: 347
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Last seen: 8 months, 16 days
Re: Revolutionary potential of psychedelics [Re: dblaney]
    #7155562 - 07/10/07 08:50 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I think most people would interpret the phrase "amplify the functioning of the mind" to mean an increase in cognitive abilities in terms of more focused and better performing brain (like test-taking results, and a quicker, sharper ability to reason, like the stimulants produce). I don't think most people would tie in "amplifying the functioning of the mind" with "inducing sensory distortions". You're going to have to be more clear and specific in order for us get anywhere on this issue.


--------------------
Let the State Disintegrate
-Leary

Edited by Mark_W (07/10/07 08:56 AM)

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Invisibledblaney
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: Revolutionary potential of psychedelics [Re: Mark_W]
    #7156045 - 07/10/07 11:17 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

You're going to have to be more clear and specific in order for us get anywhere on this issue.




I did elaborate, see my last post.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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InvisibleCracka_X
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Re: Revolutionary potential of psychedelics [Re: Mark_W]
    #7156148 - 07/10/07 11:40 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

well I think it depends on the location. Like you stated Holland as having no social impact with mushrooms being sold.

Compared to the united states, holland is more of a socialized government so I don't see what people would complain about or have to create a movement on.

This is just speculation, but in America, things aren't as open as in holland. At least in the general norm, and something like an lsd, mushroom, or any psychidelic can prove to be an eye-opening experience as to what's going on in the society.

This is what I think, I don't know for sure. but it sounds about right.


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing

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OfflineGrok
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Re: Revolutionary potential of psychedelics [Re: Cracka_X]
    #7156535 - 07/10/07 01:41 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Because of the 'individual revolution' that can be facilitated by psychedelics, it's easy to think they could have a similar collective effect. I don't doubt that they could; but what you have to realize is that psychedelics don't change anything, they are merely a tool for guidance, insight, healing, and of course, fun.

"Change is inevitable, growth is optional."

I have seen many people, including myself, go through life shattering experiences, change their outlook for a bit, and then revert back to their old ways. You have to consider that most people really aren't in a position where they see change/growth as something with much value. Most people's priorities have been prescribed to them already for much if not all of the rest of their life; pay mortgage, send kids to school, etc...and they are already complacent with the way things are. Add into that the legal status of psychedelics, the time necessary to attain a good set/setting, etc...it just doesn't jive with the consensus lifestyle at all.

There is huge potential for psychedelic revolution, especially with DMT, but IMO the begining of it lies within only a certain breed of people who have little vested interest in the ways things are, certainly not average joe. Plus it needs a certain degree of discipline, foundation, and direction, to be successful, instead of "crashing around selling consciousness expansion". It needs leaders and guides/people who really understand how to unlock the potential of psychedelics and help people integarte the experience.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Revolutionary potential of psychedelics [Re: Mark_W]
    #7157368 - 07/10/07 05:55 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Mark_W said:
You prefer mushrooms, but looking at the population in general it seems that lsd would likely be more popular and in turn perhaps a more revolutionary psychedelic if access were the same for both subtances. Again lsd being better suited to social situations for most people, since most people report a more clear and focused state of mind.




I'm sorry, but I don't understand what this line of reasoning is based upon. The effects of mushrooms as compared to LSD are pretty similiar, especially from the vantage point of those who are not that familiar with psychadelic experiences. The only notable difference I recognize in regards to your point is that LSD is easier to consume. :shrug:

Are you really proposing that, if smart shops in Amsterdam, one city in the world, were to offer one more psychadelic, very similar to another already made available, that there would occur a very distinct, profound change within the human population? :confused: I'm sorry, but I just don't see it. I couldn't comprehend how its availability would appeal to a target audience much beyond the individuals already consuming mushrooms. :shrug:

I don't understand the concept of this revolutionary potential, anyways. Revolutions provoke reactions. Its not the most efficent, productive means of change. Positive trends, over time, are much more effective. :yesnod:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineMark_W
Stranger
Registered: 05/19/07
Posts: 347
Loc: NC
Last seen: 8 months, 16 days
Re: Revolutionary potential of psychedelics [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7159548 - 07/11/07 06:36 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

ok, the reasoning is based on the fact that (even here in the shoomery) polls of psychedelic users usually reveal that lsd is their favorite psychedelic. This leads me to believe it would be a more popular psychedelic if access were the same for both substances. Also among the psychedelic "illuminati" (with the exception of Mckenna and a few others) lsd is usually the favorite of the two and is more commonly used in psychotherapy, etc.

no, I'm not proposing that if smart shops started selling lsd that a global revolution would ensue. I do think, within the city of amsterdam, that many changes would result from this, as I think lsd would catch on in popularity more-so than mushrooms.


--------------------
Let the State Disintegrate
-Leary

Edited by Mark_W (07/11/07 06:52 AM)

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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: Revolutionary potential of psychedelics [Re: Mark_W]
    #7159825 - 07/11/07 08:40 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Really? The first two polls I find when doing a forum search for "favorite psychedelic poll" are these:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7112267
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6520366

Both show a preference for mushrooms.

I don't want to bash LSD, I am quite fond of it myself. But don't forget that the reason why Timothy Leary switched from Sandoz CY-39 (aka synthetic psilocybin) to Sandoz LSD-25, was because LSD is a better party drug than psilocybin, and Leary thought that this factor would make it easier to provoke psychedelic experiences among the general population. As we all know, this strategy didn't work very well.

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OfflineMark_W
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Registered: 05/19/07
Posts: 347
Loc: NC
Last seen: 8 months, 16 days
Re: Revolutionary potential of psychedelics [Re: Rhizoid]
    #7159883 - 07/11/07 09:03 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

The one poll I saw in the Psychedelic experience forum led me to believe that lsd was more popular even here. I am probably wrong about that, thanks for correcting me. But check out websites focusing on psychedelics in general such as hipforums, their polls usually have MDMA as the favorite psychedelic, and then LSD next in line.

So I think Leary's plan was a good one, and it may have turned out better than people give credit for. A lot of groundbreaking events happened in the late 60s with lsd being part of the inspiration. Lots of creativity, inspired music, lots of people taking stands for freedom and civil rights, a summer of love. I wouldn't conclude that the strategy didn't work very well (it had it's downsides and it's backlashes for sure, but overall I'd still say it was more of a success than not.)


--------------------
Let the State Disintegrate
-Leary

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