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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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PF Cake Recipe (coarse VM vs fine VM)
    #7008963 -

Okay, so I used the following recipe for my cakes: 2/1/1 VERM/BRF/H2O as stated on http://www.shroomery.org/8410/Simple-Cubensis-Growing-Technique .

This is my second grow, and I think that my cakes have stopped growing AGAIN. I was looking at the original PF Tek ( http://www.shroomery.org/8409/PF-Tek ) and it mentions this:

"Not all vermiculite is the same. The coarseness varies quite considerably among different brands. The coarser type will hold less water than the finer type which will alter the water holding capacity. If the formulation (water content) results in a really wet or sloppy substrate, use less water. Keep notes on formulas for replicating the substrate formula that fruits the best. "

I am using the fine vermiculite.

The formula is 1/8th BRF, 1/2 vermiculite, and 1/4 water.

Could this have messed up my water content both times and caused them to stop growing? On this second one, the cakes grew a lot more than last time (the first time I used a pot to sterilize and cooked the jars), the middle of it is colonized but there are some questionable places that look like it is colonized but maybe loose verm. from above came down and got on the outside of the colonized part or stuck to the side of the glass. I think I'm going to try to fruit these, but... my main question was: would the difference in these formulas have caused my jars to have too much water?


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Re: PF Cake Recipe (coarse VM vs fine VM) [Re: Nickio]
    #7009027 -

On that same tek, the updated formula is the same 2 parts verm/1 part BRF/1 part water, and it works fine.

Medium grade verm is the best to use, IME and if it looks too sloppy I add a spoonful of verm in.

Do your cakes have correct gas exchange? do you use foil inside and outside the lid?

Cakes stalling can be a symptom of poor aireation.


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Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy

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Re: PF Cake Recipe (coarse VM vs fine VM) [Re: Nibin]
    #7009062 -

Use foil inside and outside during what part... sterilization? I used foil on just the outside during sterilization. And also the verm wasn't sloppy or anything, it just seemed damp. I was taking a look at my jars earlier, and it seems like on the parts that seem uncolonized, the verm I see is stuck to the side of the glass whereas the colonized parts is sunken in where the cake shrinks. I think that the cake shrunk, and verm from the dry layer fell down and covered it up. I'm gunna go buy a plastic storage bin and some vermiculite here in about a half hour I guess and see what happends :smile:


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Re: PF Cake Recipe (coarse VM vs fine VM) [Re: Nickio]
    #7009298 -

you seem to be doing everything right so it should turn out ok. If your verm is particularly fine it could get through the cracks.

What kind of jar are you using?

And its PERLITE you want for your storage bin to use as FC not Verm


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Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy

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Re: PF Cake Recipe (coarse VM vs fine VM) [Re: Nickio]
    #7009326 -

Quote:
Nickio said:The formula is 1/8th BRF, 1/2 vermiculite, and 1/4 water.


No, the 2/1/1 formula is 1/4 cup BRF, not an 1/8th.

If the cakes have stalled try removing the foil to expose the inoculation holes. If the cakes are nearly colonized, try turning the jars upside down.

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Re: PF Cake Recipe (coarse VM vs fine VM) [Re: HipsterDoofus]
    #7009365 -

HipsterDoofus said:
Quote:
Nickio said:The formula is 1/8th BRF, 1/2 vermiculite, and 1/4 water.


No, the 2/1/1 formula is 1/4 cup BRF, not an 1/8th.

If the cakes have stalled try removing the foil to expose the inoculation holes. If the cakes are nearly colonized, try turning the jars upside down.


1/8th was the old formula that is still in the original pf tek along with the 2:1:1 update. The OP was quoting from the original pf tek manual


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Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy

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Re: PF Cake Recipe (coarse VM vs fine VM) [Re: Nibin]
    #7009427 -

I use the 2/1/1 forumula with fine vermiculite all the time with no stalling or water content problems. I think there must be some other reason why the cakes are stalling.

Even if you think that the difference in formula's messed up the water content, which I don't think it does, but if you do, then the 2/1/1 formula would be drier than the orginal and not wetter. Especially with the fine vermiculite which has a higher moisture holding capacity compared to medium called for in the original recipe. Plus, in the 2/1/1 you are using twice as much flour as compared to the original. So, if anything, his 2/1/1 recipe would be drier than the original. If he thinks water content is the problem. And in his original post he says he thinks it's too wet.

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Re: PF Cake Recipe (coarse VM vs fine VM) [Re: Nickio]
    #7010458 -

Yes I did say that, beacuse I saw water droplets in the jars.

I took the cakes out of their jars today, filled with water, put them back in to dunk them and put them in the fridge. I'm going to get the perlite and stuff tomarrow. I think my theory that the cakes shrunk was right because the verm is floating in the water and the cake is white.

When I had them out, the myc smelled good and it was sticky so I'm assuming its still alive. It felt really nasty :smile:


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Edited by Nickio (06/05/07 12:03 AM)

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Re: PF Cake Recipe (coarse VM vs fine VM) [Re: Nickio]
    #7010776 -

I make cakes using a rough 2:1 verm/flour mix (probably slightly less flour)

As the different verm takes different amounts of water I take the verm, add lots of water, mix it around real good and then drain it in a colander, for a good half hour.

I then add flour to the verm a bit at a time, trying to give it a good even coating. I stop at the first signs of it getting sticky. It then looks really crumbly and loose.

Works for me. :smile:

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Re: PF Cake Recipe (coarse VM vs fine VM) [Re: shaggydogman]
    #7010827 -

i hope you mean brf not normal flour lol


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Re: PF Cake Recipe (coarse VM vs fine VM) [Re: xaxphaanes]
    #7010851 -

:thumbup: Errrr, yep, the super lovely organic brown rice variety of flour :smile:

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