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Why do we have a food chain?
    #6872049 -

Why does killing have to be a part of the cycle of life?


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Re: Why do we have a food chain? [Re: JunkFood]
    #6872057 -

Meat has energy


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TAO

but really, fish noodles

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Re: Why do we have a food chain? [Re: JunkFood]
    #6872064 -

We are a mutual eating planet. Everything eats everything else. There's no escape and no alternative. Whether you're a meat eater or a plant eater, what you eat is or was alive at one point. And if you choose to not eat and starve, well then you're just killing yourself. It is a fact of life on this planet.


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"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Re: Why do we have a food chain? [Re: EsKregg]
    #6872069 -

Yeah, but I'm asking why the world works so that creatures feed on other creatures.

A lot of things have energy, but they can't all necessarily be eaten.


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Re: Why do we have a food chain? [Re: dblaney]
    #6872081 -

Yeah, but plants aren't living creatures--they don't suffer when they die (people like to argue that, but that's a whole other topic, altogether). Why does the world work in such a way that living creatures have to die for sake of other creatures?


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Re: Why do we have a food chain? [Re: JunkFood]
    #6872090 -

JunkFood said:
Yeah, but I'm asking why the world works so that creatures feed on other creatures.

A lot of things have energy, but they can't all necessarily be eaten.


That's like asking why do we live? :shrug:
Just because.
The Universe works by some rules (almost unknown to science but we can take this wild guess and realize that it doesn't happen randomly) and our "food chain" as well.
Or to be more plastic, it is like asking why do we can recharge our mobile phones batteries with electricity and not with gas? Because that's how they are bing made :lol:. Gas can produce energy too, but it's not the right one for mobile phones.
I'd like to explain you more but I'm afraid that I have nothing to add, it just is like that, you know the biological explanation, you know that physical explanations... so I don't really see where you're trying to get to with your question :tongue:


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:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Why do we have a food chain? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6872104 -

Well, none of you guys are God, so I guess you won't be able to answer my question :shrug:

But personally, If I made the world, I wouldn't make a world that revolved around killing :shrug:


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Re: Why do we have a food chain? [Re: JunkFood]
    #6872108 -

:shrug:... ask God? :strokebeard:


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:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Why do we have a food chain? [Re: JunkFood]
    #6872118 -

JunkFood said:
But personally, If I made the world, I wouldn't make a world that revolved around killing :shrug:


I don't know about you but I think steak tastes a lot better than solar power.


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From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.

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Re: Why do we have a food chain? [Re: elbisivni]
    #6872125 -

In this world


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Re: Why do we have a food chain? [Re: JunkFood]
    #6872131 -

JunkFood said:
elbisivni said:
I don't know about you but I think steak tastes a lot better than solar power.


In this world


Wasn't this world the one you were referring to?
Dude, stop confusing people :lol:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Why do we have a food chain? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6872138 -

What I'm saying is If I made the world, a delicious meal like steak wouldn't come from a dead animal :shrug:


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Re: Why do we have a food chain? [Re: JunkFood]
    #6872143 -

Yeah it would grow off of a steak tree, right next to an A1 steak sauce bog.  Sweet :thumbup:


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From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.

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Re: Why do we have a food chain? [Re: JunkFood]
    #6872146 -

Dude, what's your point? You lack of one. Is there a philosophical thing you wanna discuss related to that subject?
Wtf?
How do you know that "God" made all that? How do you God exists?
By now, all we can see is that we're the one who choose to eat a delicious steak, so it very much looks like OUR decision. Why put the blame on a supposed "creator"?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Why do we have a food chain? [Re: JunkFood]
    #6872148 -

JunkFood said:
Yeah, but plants aren't living creatures--they don't suffer when they die


Plants sure are alive!

Quote:
Life is a condition that distinguishes organisms from inorganic objects and dead organisms, being manifested by growth through metabolism, reproduction, and the power of adaptation to environment through changes originating internally. A diverse array of living organisms can be found in the biosphere on Earth. Properties common to these organisms – plants, animals, fungi, protists, archaea and bacteria – are a carbon and water-based cellular form with complex organization and genetic information. They undergo metabolism, possess a capacity to grow, respond to stimuli, reproduce and, through natural selection, adapt to their environment in successive generations.



--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Re: Why do we have a food chain? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6872150 -

MushroomTrip said:
How do you know that "God" made all that? How do you God exists?
By now, all we can see is that we're the one who choose to eat a delicious steak, so it very much looks like OUR decision. Why put the blame on a supposed "creator"?


I didn't mean "God" so literally.

It's not OUR decision; we have a food chain--creatures kill other creatures for food. Why?

dblaney said:
JunkFood said:
Yeah, but plants aren't living creatures--they don't suffer when they die


Plants sure are alive!


JunkFood said:
Yeah, but plants aren't living creatures--they don't suffer when they die




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Re: Why do we have a food chain? [Re: JunkFood]
    #6872178 -

The way in which all known life has evolved means that ALL energy is obtained via the catabolic and anabolic processing of chemical compounds. If you want a wide array of life you have to accept that for effective purposes life cannot be limited to a single energy source (i.e. photon energy being harnessed to react carbon dioxide and water to glucose in the case of photosynthesis). This may not seem to answer the question, plants are self sufficient aren't they? Well no they are not, an ecosystem could not be limited to a set of organisms existing in the same energetic manner. Plants also need nitrogen compounds, a nitrogen cycle where nitrates, nitrites and ammonium are interchanged and processed by various micro organisms, plants and physical events is required. In addition a carbon cycle featuring continued processing of carbon dioxide and oxygen is required in order to maintain biosphere equilibrium. Plants alone do not function in equilibrium therefore additional organisms are required.

Now we have established that organisms cannot survive entirely off exactly the same energy source we must consider other energy sources. In the physical arrangement of our biosphere there are not many different 'start' options other than solar energy, some examples include the likes of heat and chemical energy emited from oceanic volcanoes. Despite this the number of start points in the biosphere given the biochemical energy cycle all life is based on, are very limited.

Now you could say change the system, in other words what if organisms didn't function by utilise the enthalpy of various chemical compounds but instead, say utilised gravity as a direct source of energy? Well indeed what if? I won't dispute this kind of argument because it is entirely conjecture and we cannot apply, assess the constraints it imposes.

Anyway, the energy start points are limited, this means that in order for the array of life to increase, whilst maintaining a biological equilibrium, energy must be taken from another form of life. To begin with plants, fungi, protozoa etc. Now the main point, as such consumptions occur we can split the said consumers into what are known as trophic levels based on the energy change. Essentially whenever an organism consumers another a LARGE amount of energy will be lost (generally ~80-98%) This means the system is not self sustaining and in order for expansion to occur not only must the initial point of energy continue to be applied but there must also be a continually growing consumption of lesser trophic organisms.

Basically if you want an array of large complex and relatively advanced mammals any where like what we currently have you will need carnivores in order to maintain the energy pyramid.

One point to consider is what makes you in the least bit sure that there is any more justice and equally any less suffering in eating a rabbit than eating a plant. The rabbit will experience the sensations of pain, suffering and eventually death whether or not you kill/eat it.
You are simply being the course. On that level maybe you are reducing the total amount of suffering it endures in its existence span. Is this a good/bad thing? Or is it just a human concept riddled with presumptions regarding the morality and importance of suffering, pain and death in the cycle of life? Is it actually wrong to kill or indeed just wrong with regards to the social web we live in? An assumption like your own where you assume suffering in the natural state is a bad thing is no less fallible than suggesting that plants suffer. If the later is the case then, with regards to the chemo-energy set up utilised throughout our biosphere nothing could advance past the basic kingdoms without administrating suffering.

For me the world is shown to us in a certain way, i.e. that of nature.
Any other ways are entirely of our own conceiving, including such concepts regarding misery and suffering as unnatural and bad. Surely if anything it's logical to go with what is already in place, natures concept, instead of something we deem correct based on circumstantial moral grounds?

Just my thoughts.


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"All credibility, all good conscience, all evidence of truth come only from the senses. " ~ Friedrich Nietzsche

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Re: Why do we have a food chain? [Re: JunkFood]
    #6872183 -

Quote:
It's not OUR decision; we have a food chain--creatures kill other creatures for food. Why?


All living creatures are concentrated and refined resources of energy of which there are a limited number. It takes much less energy (efficiency) to assimilate other protoplasm than it does to try to convert rock, soil and sunlight into energy. Without this form of competition, you would not exist. There would be no evolutionary pressure to change and adapt.

Why do you use a lighter instead of two twigs and some tinder to create fire? It is called 'efficiency'.


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Re: Why do we have a food chain? [Re: JunkFood]
    #6872185 -

Creatures kill other creatures because they are hungry. Be it plant or animals, they need to eat to sustain life... They don't think of it as killing, YOU do. The death of your prey is none of your concern... If it were, you would starve and die, not have children and no one would carry on your insanity.

You kill to eat because evrything does... Energy isn't free.

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Re: Why do we have a food chain? [Re: JunkFood]
    #6872186 -

easy :wink:
In complexer life-forms, the energy (bravo EsKregg and elbisivni) and all life sustaining molecules are more digestible and fitting to our metabolism.
Sad, but true, the more complex life forms are easier for us to sustain our life functions.


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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