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Re: The genius of Conservatives [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #6647753 -

I am apolitical. Like Economist.


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"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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Re: The genius of Conservatives [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #6648074 -

I agree.

Republicans as a party are very good at "staying on message". The top party officials send out "talking points" then their representatives go on tv and radio programs and hammer that message into the audience over and over and over until they find themselves repeating it. Bill "Rile em up" O Reilly even has a segment on his show called 'Talking Points'.

I cant tell you how many times Ive asked for opinions on a breaking news story from my Republican friends only to met with silence or a mumbled, half-hearted defense of some bone-headed policy. That is until Rush Limbaugh addresses it on his show. Then the next day.. BOOM! they suddenly have an opinion!! (An opinion that sounds almost exactly like Rushs).

You can tell when a talking point has been relayed. It usually comes in the form of an easy-to-remember one or two sentence slogan such as the unforgettable classic used to make the Iraq war seem necessary, "Saddam used WMDs on his own people. Imagine what he would do to us!"

Saddam used WMDs on his own people.

Saddam used WMDs on his own people.

Saddam used WMDs on his own people.

Saddam used WMDs on his own people.

They dont have to bother to think- their thinking is done for them.
For many I guess it comes as a welcome relief to be unburdened of the responsibility of conscious thought. It is pathetic but there is a certain strength to the method. It has worked for cults and fascist movements throughout history and modern media has only increased its effectiveness.


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: The genius of Conservatives [Re: zorbman]
    #6648170 -

Quote:
I cant tell you how many times Ive asked for opinions on a breaking news story from my Republican friends only to met with silence or a mumbled, half-hearted defense of some bone-headed policy.


Forming an opinion on the basis of incomplete (and often incorrect) data is a Libbie trait. As we have seen over and over and over again in this forum for at least the last five years, "breaking" news stories are often wrong -- sometimes spectacularly so.

The quality of today's mainstream media is abysmal. That's why I almost never comment on a news story the first day it appears, and often wait closer to a week before addressing it. The pressure in today's wired world to beat the competition to the punch leads supposedly reputable news organizations into uncritically reporting as solid news rumors, leaks from unnamed sources, propaganda from clearly partisan sources, and much more.

Sometimes it takes just a day for the inevitable corrections, retractions, amplifications and second-sourcing to appear, but sometimes it takes weeeks or even months for the full story to surface (the astoundingly bogus "reporting" on Hurricane Katrina being the most recent example of the latter).

Conservatives in general tend to be more cautious than Libbies in general. Perhaps this is why they are reluctant to deliver a snap judgment on something freshly reported. They remember being razzed by Libbies the last time they uncritically accepted as gospel a faulty news report from the mainstream media, so are noncommital until they have had a chance to check it out further. Libbies on the other hand don't care that they were wrong the last four dozen or so times. As Ronald Reagan once said, it's not that Liberals don't know anything, it's that they know so many things that are wrong.



Phred


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Re: The genius of Conservatives [Re: Phred]
    #6648228 -

Quote:
Forming an opinion on the basis of incomplete (and often incorrect) data is a Libbie trait.


I am talking about situations where the facts are not in dispute- just the opinions are not in yet.. the spin has not yet spun. And liberals are certainly not immune to this behavior, just less so. The phrase "knee-jerk Republican" came into being as recognition of this well-known trait.

I don't see how any honest observer can deny that Republicans tend to march in lockstep in terms of message. They have a catchy slogan ready to deliver to any camera or microphone when they want to shape public opinion.

It is not a weakness, it is a strength in terms of getting things done in a media-driven, sound bite society. For Republicans though I think having a unified message has become a liability as group-think has stealthily crept into their decision making process. A good example is the decision to attack Iraq. A decision which made no sense except to leaders locked in an echo chamber.


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: The genius of Conservatives [Re: zorbman]
    #6648269 -

Quote:
I am talking about situations where the facts are not in dispute- just the opinions are not in yet.. the spin has not yet spun.


Examples, please.

Quote:
The phrase "knee-jerk Republican" came into being as recognition of this well-known trait.


Actually, the phrase "knee-jerk Liberal" predates yours by quite a bit.

Quote:
I don't see how any honest observer can deny that Republicans tend to march in lockstep in terms of message.


Psychologists call this view of yours "projection". If any political partisans tend to march in lockstep, it's Libbies.

Quote:
They have a catchy slogan ready to deliver to any camera or microphone when they want to shape public opinion.


See above. Do any of the following sound familiar to you?

-- Bush lied, people died

-- Not in my name

-- It's all about the oil

-- Bush knew

-- The President-select







Phred


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Re: The genius of Conservatives [Re: Phred]
    #6648368 -

Examples, please.

"John Kerry voted for the war before he voted against it".

How many times did we hear that during the campaign? Very effective line which was repeated ad nauseam. Repetition works.

"Al Gore said he invented the internet." is another one.

Actually, the phrase "knee-jerk Liberal" predates yours by quite a bit.

Yes, it does sound quite dated. I don't remember ever hearing the phrase "knee jerk liberal or democrat". Maybe in the past they were known as such. Times change.

Psychologists call this view of yours "projection". If any political partisans tend to march in lockstep, it's Libbies

Actually you are the one projecting here. Psychologists call this behavior "denial".

Democrats are an incredibly diverse party with few unifying beliefs. There is even a well known joke about that, "I don't belong to an organized political party- I am a democrat." Republicans have greater party discipline in terms of voting and message. Probably because the party is hierarchal in its power structure.

See above. Do any of the following sound familiar to you?

-- Bush lied, people died

-- Not in my name

-- It's all about the oil

-- Bush knew

-- The President-select


You are making my point. None of those democratic slogans were effective! Republicans are well known for their party discipline, staying on message and succesful marketing of their beliefs. Democrats could learn much from them in that respect.


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: The genius of Conservatives [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #6648442 -

psilocyberin said:
you just cant stay on topic.

I have mentioned conservative once so far, which was a few posts back, and most likely not the one you were responding to.



Um, not to be the one who points out the elephant in the room but didn't you start this thread? Isn't the TITLE of this thread "the genius of CONSERVATIVES"? Are you fucking kidding me with this? Holy shit.
Quote:
it amazes me that you have yet to come up with anything other than ad hominems or any actual debating of the subject I have presented. A simple, "I disagree" would have sufficed.

A knowledge of your post history in this forum is why i direct comments like towing the party line towards you.

i agree my example is conjecture, but it isnt ideological fluff. Can you honestly say that exactly what I stated in my example wouldnt be plastered all over Fox news?

All i am simply saying in this thread is that the republican party has more tactical foresight, especially compared to the Democratic party.


Then maybe you should have named your thread that. Are Republicans smarter than Democrats? You're fucking right they are. Libertarians are smarter than both. Am I smarter than you? By orders of magnitude you can't conceive. I'm also much more handsome. So what. Even idiots get the same number of votes as me. If the there weren't so many idiots there would be social conservatives and libertarians. Instead we are saddled with a class of cowards without the balls to accept responsibility for their own lives and the politicians who would pander to them, i.e. liberals. But it's a tough group to keep together, because they are stupid and they are fearful and they could go any way at all at any time.

Is that on topic enough for you?


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Re: The genius of Conservatives [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6648446 -

Take notes kiddies, because that right there is a championship smackdown.


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Re: The genius of Conservatives [Re: zorbman]
    #6648461 -

Quote:
"John Kerry voted for the war before he voted against it".

How many times did we hear that during the campaign? Very effective line which was repeated ad nauseam. Repetition works.

"Al Gore said he invented the internet." is another one.


You misunderstood my request. I was looking for examples of people forming opinions in "situations where the facts are not in dispute- just the opinions are not in yet.. the spin has not yet spun."

Quote:
You are making my point. None of those democratic slogans were effective!


You said nothing about the effectiveness or lack thereof of slogans. Your claim was that Republicans (as opposed to Libbies) "have a catchy slogan ready to deliver to any camera or microphone when they want to shape public opinion."

I demonstrated that Libbies also have catchy slogans ready to deliver to any camera or microphone when they want to shape public opinion. The fact that their catchy slogans are lame is beside the point.




Phred


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Re: The genius of Conservatives [Re: Phred]
    #6648473 -

Phred said:
The fact that their catchy slogans are lame is beside the point.
Phred


Well no, it is in fact the closest he has gotten to a point in the whole thread and why, relatively speaking, conservatives are geniuses.


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Re: The genius of Conservatives [Re: Phred]
    #6648480 -

I was looking for examples of people forming opinions in "situations where the facts are not in dispute- just the opinions are not in yet.. the spin has not yet spun."

Are you disputing the fact that Kerry or Gore made such statements?

And I never claimed that Democrats do not have slogans. Just that they fail to move public opinion in any meaningful way.


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: The genius of Conservatives [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6648487 -

Instead we are saddled with a class of cowards without the balls to accept responsibility for their own lives and the politicians who would pander to them, i.e. liberals.

I guess conservatives who fail to pay for their massive expenditures by raising taxes or cutting expenses are your idea of responsible leaders? What a joke.


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: The genius of Conservatives [Re: zorbman]
    #6649300 -

For what reason are you more concerned about government deficit as opposed to your own personal deficit? Feel free to send any funds you wish above and beyond that which you already pay in taxes to the government (as if you pay any). If you don't like what republicans spend just wait until you see what dems spend. As an aside, tax revenue is way up. This has happened because lower taxes have led to increased prosperity which leads to increased revenue. Am I disgusted with the spending? You bet your sweet ass I am. Do I give a shit about the federal deficit? Not a bit. I am far more concerned about soc sec, the greatest ponzi scheme ever. But only because they will eventually steal more money to cover it.


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Re: The genius of Conservatives [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6649486 -

How exactly is spending far more than we take in and passing that debt onto generations unborn in any way responsible? Try making sense if you can.


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

Edited by zorbman (03/08/07 03:36 PM)

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Re: The genius of Conservatives [Re: zorbman]
    #6649631 -

I've heard this bullshit for decades. It never amounts to anything. If you really give a shit about unborn generations act to get rid of soc sec. The answer is not raising taxes, it's cutting spending. Duh.


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Re: The genius of Conservatives [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6649726 -

Nine trillion dollars of debt amounts to nothing. Wow. At what point does the debt begin to concern you? You do understand that if nothing changes by 2040 the federal government will be unable to do much else but pay interest on the massive and growing debt leaving no money left for little things like national defense, education, etc? Your neocon men won't have their precious guns to wave around any more and they won't be liking that.

Just because we've (seemingly) gotten by so far with this mounting debt doesn't mean there won't be problems in the future. That's just common sense. I know people who seemed to be in great financial shape only to later declare bankruptcy. Seems they bought all their crap on credit. Almost exactly like our responsible Republican friends.

And as far as democrats supposedly spending more than republicans, last time I checked Clinton had brought the deficit down to ZERO. Got that? NADA. ZILCH. Bush-chimp has resumed irresponsible deficit spending with his idiotic Iraq war. Tack another trillion dollars onto the debt. Oh, I forgot. A trillion dollars means nothing. :rolleyes:


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: The genius of Conservatives [Re: zorbman]
    #6649907 -

In case you are unaware of how government works in this country it is the Congress which controls the purse, not the President. And during Clinton's presidency it was mostly Republican. Further, if it hadn't been for Clinton's concentration on bimbos perhaps he could have gotten his fat face out of the chubby dope's crotch long enough to actually, you know, prevent an attack.

And no, the debt doesn't amount to shit, it's actually quite typical, historically speaking, as a percentage of GDP.


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Re: The genius of Conservatives [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6650068 -

And maybe if Bush had gotten his own face out of Dick Cheney's crotch [ nice mental image for you ] we wouldn't be in this stupid war which is adding billions to our debt, killing and maiming thousands, dishonoring our country and ruining our worldwide reputation (credit and otherwise) for generations to come.

As far as the national debt as a percentage of GDP..

Take a good look at the chart.

Please note precisely where the percentage began to dip and when it zoomed back up again..


No matter how you choose to slice the numbers some small part of you must surely realize that it is highly irresponsible and yes, downright immoral to bequeath crushing debt as a birthright to our grandchildren in order to finance some bullshit war Dick Cheney pulled out of his asshole. For shame.

I can easily forsee a day in the future after our debt-based economy has been driven onto the rocks when one of those poor young people listens politely to the lame excuses of some person like yourself and punches you right between the eyes..



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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

Edited by zorbman (03/09/07 12:38 AM)

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Re: The genius of Conservatives [Re: Phred]
    #6650507 -

Quote:
Forming an opinion on the basis of incomplete (and often incorrect) data is a Libbie trait.


Actually, it's a human trait, just like projecting everything negative about human nature onto those who disagree with you.


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Re: The genius of Conservatives [Re: zorbman]
    #6652930 -

Yes, the percentage began to dip when there was a Republican controlled congress, the cold war was over and we had not yet been attacked by troglodytes. These are things I knew.


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