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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Does this completely disprove an afterlife? [Re: ngnyus]
    #6609607 -

We cannot prove one way or another whether there is an afterlife. For one the question of such is extremely ambiguous. This is a question that will likely never be answered. It has been discussed for the greater part of human existence. We are inquisitive creatures who by our very nature seek to know everything that is possible to be known and some things that cannot be known. The afterlife is simply unknown.


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Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall soon have neither.
-Benjamin Franklin

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Re: Does this completely disprove an afterlife? [Re: Legend9123]
    #6609839 -

Every vibration in our body is caused by energy

That energy can never be destroyed

That energy will create new life when you are dead

That energy created you when you were born (without your consent)

And that energy is connected with every star and every galaxy.


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"Truth is more in the process than in the result."
- J. Krishnamurti




"We ourselves are not an illusory part of Reality; rather are we Reality itself illusorily conceived." Wei Wu Wei

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Re: Does this completely disprove an afterlife? [Re: hot48yearolds]
    #6609895 -

We are individual organic units that live very short lives (compared to the universe). We are literally nothing of the cosmos. There are 6+ billion people on the earth right now. There is no way that every human life is important. What about a baby that dies right after birth? Does that baby have an afterlife?

There is a reason you never see proof of God, or angels or Heaven. Because none of it is real.

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Re: Does this completely disprove an afterlife? [Re: Atheist]
    #6609908 -

SpicyTunaRoll said:
There is a reason you never see proof of God, or angels or Heaven. Because none of it is real.


speak for yourself.


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You reap what you sow

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Re: Does this completely disprove an afterlife? [Re: Atheist]
    #6609931 -

SpicyTunaRoll said:
Well there is DEFINITELY no Heaven and Hell.


the proof is in the pudding my fellow shroomerite.prove there is no heaven or hell.prove there is. we have also been here way longer than 200 years,you probably made a typo?

i do know the world is approx. 4.5 million years old because science has proof.the 2000 year thing has to be a crock of shit in my eye's but i have no proof whether a heaven or hell exist ,but i know something has to be out there after you die.what would be the point of us being the smartest creatures on earth?if it's to destroy ourselves than something some where had a plan for this.

i know species go extinct,but we are the only species that kill ourselves to the maximum.animals kill for food which i understand,but i have never seen an animal war over nations besides us.IMO


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when you become one with nature,nature becomes one with you.if you never try it you will never know the truth!

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Re: Does this completely disprove an afterlife? [Re: Atheist]
    #6609976 -

YES. It does.

But you are going to scare some people here. Some will be consciously scared, and some will be unconsciously scared of what you have to say. Personally I think the thought of death is creeping around in well over half of our thoughts, even the ones that don't seem like they have anything to do with death at first glance. I even made a thread in P&S about this very idea. (Death lurks around every corner!?)

As for energy, even if we fade into just energy, I would assume we just go into the things around us as we die. Maybe we go into some bigger matrix, or something. But I don't know.

I'm an atheist with agnostic leanings, and sometimes vice versa.  But yes, your post makes tons of sense. It's just that most people will be scared of what you are saying, and will react with everything from quiet indifference to anger.

Here is something for everyone to think about!
If there is no after life, once you are dead, do you think you will be upset? That was one of the greatest realizations for me. If there is nothing after I am gone, what will I have to be upset about?

NOTHING.

(No-Thing :wink: )

A great Egyptian Pharaoh asked for timeless advice, a piece of wisdom that would last forever, something that wouldn't change.
"this to will pass" was the answer he received.

Enjoy your life. :wink:


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Re: Does this completely disprove an afterlife? [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #6610069 -

It does not prove anything. It would be extremely shortsighted to imagine that in 200 words or less somebody could definitively find the answer to the question that has plagued mankind since we began. His viewpoint is how he envisions things. It is not proof.


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Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall soon have neither.
-Benjamin Franklin

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Re: Does this completely disprove an afterlife? [Re: Legend9123]
    #6610103 -

And your post doesn't prove anything either. At least his post is possible :wink:
We can say for certain, that there may be no after life. Can you say for sure that there is one?


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Re: Does this completely disprove an afterlife? [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #6610143 -

No, but I can say for certain there may be one, can you say for certain there is not? (tee hee) If thousands of people declare of miraculous visions after complete brain death can one discount it completely. There is scientific evidence that is most often ignored due to the fact that it contradicts what Darwin said a hundred years ago. Now who's being dogmatic.


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You reap what you sow

Edited by ngnyus (02/25/07 08:10 PM)

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Re: Does this completely disprove an afterlife? [Re: ngnyus]
    #6610174 -

My answers to both of your questions are NO.

But if I just faded into some ebb and flow of energy in the universe that would be mystical enough for me. If we are all truly god, as the Hindus believe, that's good enough for me.

IF there is a god, I don't believe it has anything to do with out petty fights, our loves, and what we hate, or any other nonsense the "big 3" religions seem to be so focused on.


on another note: Why do you never hear people bitching about what Buddhists say and do??



Cause they're Buddhists!!! Why the hell would you be pissed off at a Buddhist, they don't bother anyone! :lol:


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Re: Does this completely disprove an afterlife? [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #6610235 -

THANK YOU

And for everyone that says it isn't proof, yeah you are right.

it definitely isn't proof but its pretty fuckin logical.

we're just creatures like everything else on this fucking planet.

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Re: Does this completely disprove an afterlife? [Re: Atheist]
    #6610414 -

Most of the people who browse this forum are or have been users of psychadelics. One of the most profound effects of psychadelics is that they can produce mystical states of awareness. The three pillars of self, time, and space all undergo transfiguration in a mystical experience.
To quote Rick Strassman:
"There is no longer any separation between the self and what is not the self. Personal identity and all of existence become one and the same. In fact, there is no "personal" identity because we understand at the most basic level the underlying unity and interdependence of all existence.
Past, present, and future merge together into a timeless moment, the now of eternity. Time stops, inasmuch as it no longer "passes." There is existence, but it is not dependent upon time. Now and then, before and after, all combine into this exact point. On the relative level, short periods of time encompass enormous amounts of experience.
As our self and time lose their boundaries, space becomes vast. Like time, space is no longer here or there but everywhere, limitless, without edges. Here and there are the same. It is all here.
In this infinitely vast time and space with no limited self, we hold up to examination all contradictions and paradoxes and see they no longer conflict. We can hold, absorb, and accept everything our mind conjures up: good and evil, suffering and happiness, small and large. We are now certain that consciousness continues after the body dies, and that it existed long before this particular physical form. We see the entire universe in a blade of grass and know what our face was like before our parents met."


This is why people who choose to live mystical lives, people who have near-death experiences, people who have 'alien ubductions', and to some extent people who have psycadelic experiences are aware of this otherworldly beauty. They do not rush off to suicide to switch worlds, but they "reside in the knowledge that there is 'life after death' and their transition loses its sting. Thus, they are able to live life more fully, because the fear of death that drives so many to distraction is now so much less."


Many people's experience in these mystical states reflect that which is written in the Tibetan Book of the Dead. "In this old text, Tibetan Buddhist practitioners have "charted" out the various bardo states that one enters along the path from dying to rebirth into one's next life-form."

all quotes were taken from Rick Strassman's book DMT: The Spirit Molecule.
I wouldve thought that ANYONE who has done psychadelics would believe a life after death or some other alternate state of existence which permates our physical universe. We're all connected, all one life-force. This is our immortality.

We have difficulty communicating this to people who havent experienced it because there are no words which can describe the true impact of it.

"While Elena described the essence of her encounter as "amoral," her joy and wonder suggest she found it anything but cold or lifeless. Rather, "it was love," and she was so happy there she considered not "coming back." She understood the cycle of birth and rebirth with the resulting personal certainty of immortality. She, like others in the study, also saw what modern cosmologiests propose is the source of the universe. First there is nothing, then the Big Bang, out of which slowed-down and cooled particles become the elements of matter. From matter comes our own separate bodies and minds."


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Edited by Colbadol (02/25/07 09:07 PM)

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Re: Does this completely disprove an afterlife? [Re: Atheist]
    #6610433 -

SpicyTunaRoll said:
we're just creatures


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Re: Does this completely disprove an afterlife? [Re: Atheist]
    #6610445 -

Quote:
We are individual organic units that live very short lives (compared to the universe).


On the contrary, we ARE the universe. The fleeting subjective experiences we call our selves are but a glimmer of our true nature.

Quote:
There is no way that every human life is important.


I would say that every particle in the universe is important. Without any of the pieces, the whole would be diminished.

Quote:
What about a baby that dies right after birth? Does that baby have an afterlife?


Sure, why wouldn't it? Whether you live for an hour or 100 years, that life is but a temporary manifestation of our true substance: consciousness.

Quote:
There is a reason you never see proof of God, or angels or Heaven.


Maybe you haven't, but I have.


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Re: Does this completely disprove an afterlife? [Re: Silversoul]
    #6610459 -

are you a Christian?

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Re: Does this completely disprove an afterlife? [Re: Silversoul]
    #6610463 -

Silversoul said:
Whether you live for an hour or 100 years, that life is but a temporary manifestation of our true substance: consciousness.



Truly


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Re: Does this completely disprove an afterlife? [Re: Atheist]
    #6610479 -

SpicyTunaRoll said:
are you a Christian?


Among other things, yes.


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Re: Does this completely disprove an afterlife? [Re: Atheist]
    #6610484 -

SpicyTunaRoll said:
are you a Christian?


you don't have to be a Christian to see God, angels or heaven.

Your opinion is cool and its cool that you like it, but please accept the fact that it is not proof of anything. It is an opinion, just like everything else posted in this thread.

You haven't disproven anything - you had a thought. congrats.

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Re: Does this completely disprove an afterlife? [Re: Atheist]
    #6610518 -

Here's an excerpt from a DMT trip report:

"It came on fast and big, and an incredible pressure arose in my head, pushing me back. It blasted me into the realm in which pure living energy begins to take form. As it began to slow down, I saw the process of separated awareness. This slowing down creates form and consciousness. Before the slowing down, it's not there. It's not unconscious, but not conscious. It's real, of its own substance, not fragmented. It's amazing how slowly things move here on Earth!
Going out and slowing down into the periphery, to the fringes of it, into form. Ther is the endless outflow of creation, effortless, and then this vast process takes it back in. My little piece of energy goes in and out, too, not more or less than any other piece. You cant die. You cant go away. You can neither add nor subtract. There is a continual outflow that is immortality. The "I am" notion goes around and around. I have the certainty of that.

I sometimes feel like an atheist, but then i realize that it's all just ego. You are God, spicy. SO am I. So is everybody.


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Re: Does this completely disprove an afterlife? [Re: Silversoul]
    #6610612 -

Being part of the universe, and being a immortal part of the universe are 2 VERY different things. And that latter is highly unlikely. Humans need to drop the superiorty complex.

Chances are, we don't last forever. :yesnod:


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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