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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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Re: Does taking a multi-vitamin or orange juice intensify a trip? [Re: daytripper05]
    #6339429 -

daytripper05 said:
who is worth the taste and for god sakes all those nasty shroom particles in your teeth?


I think shrooms taste great.

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Re: Does taking a multi-vitamin or orange juice intensify a trip? [Re: Syle]
    #6339441 -

Syle said:
for fucks sake. there are studies that show that chewing mushies in your mouth for 10 min makes it hit faster.


I find that difficult to swallow. Please cite those studies.

Quote:
so, then why wouldn't the mushies in liquid form which is straightly absorbed into your system be faster?


Because absorbtion through the gastrointestinal tract would be slower than direct absorbtion through the mouth. Tea would result in slower, more spread out (and possibly less efficient) absorbtion of psilo(cy)bin.

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Re: Does taking a multi-vitamin or orange juice intensify a trip? [Re: Syle]
    #6339445 -

Syle said:
not placebo because the first time i did tea mush,


So what? That's one sample. You're taking the variation from one experience and trying to generalize to millions of experiences?

Quote:
just shut up dude and leave it, isn't it obvious your not going to change my mind? lordy...


Don't tell me what to do. If I see what I think is total nonsense, then I'm going to point out that I think it's nonsense. I'm not doing this for your benefit, since you have already admitted to being close-minded (yet you've already reversed yourself from saying you don't care if it is placebo to now claiming that it isn't).

Also, it's not just me who thinks that it's a placebo response, but you seem to be insisting that I'm about the only person mushroom user who thinks this. Yet, we've got others in this thread who agree with me and you refuse to acknowledge that your response is simply not universal.

It still baffles me how you can just be ignore contradictory information and say something as silly as "you'll never convince me." So, apparently facts mean nothing to you and you have no desire to come to a consistent understanding of reality?

Edited by Chemiker (12/06/06 04:25 AM)

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Re: Does taking a multi-vitamin or orange juice intensify a trip? [Re: Syle]
    #6339513 -

Syle said:
BUT, Chem is saying that it doesn't matter whatever way you ingest...



OMG.

I am not saying that, at all.

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Re: Does taking a multi-vitamin or orange juice intensify a trip? [Re: HUBSonDUBS]
    #6339608 -

HUBSonDUBS said:
Does taking a multi-vitamin or orange juice intensify a trip? If so explain why and some other ways of intensifying your trip.


I just couldnt bother to read all of the arguing posts. But to answer the original poster. Yes, there are some tried and true ways to enhance the trip (as have previously been discussed on this board).

1.
if you ingest some blackcurrant juice (or anything with high blackcurrant percentage) roughtly one or two hours before your trip. that will intensify and prolong the trip. i usually buy a one litre carton of blaccurrant juice, drink half about 90 minutes before, and half just as the trip is coming up.

2.
the other way is as mentioned using lemon or lime juice(not orange its not acidic enough). so you grind the dried shrooms into a powder, and mix that into half a glass of freshly squeezed lime/lemon juice (make sure its really sour). leave it sitting in the glass for about 20 minutes. then drink (you can mix in some oj at this stage if its to sour for your taste or if you have a sensitive stomach). this will preconvert the actives and thus make your trip come on faster, peak higher and last shorter.

happy tripping

mz


--------------------
Mindzpores words of wisdom:
"If you think something is foolproof, you just haven't met proper fools".

Wiccan_Seeker said:
"It is better to adjust to become a better listener than to keep on cranking up the volume".

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Re: Does taking a multi-vitamin or orange juice intensify a trip? [Re: Mindzpore]
    #6339646 -

When eating mushrooms as a 'whole', it's not just the metabolism of the psilocybin that plays a factor, there is also the role of having to break down all of that fiber in the mushrooms to actually get at the psilocybin.

Now, lets say you had a 'pure' extract of psilocybin, chances are there would not be much difference between taking it down as a tea, or eating it straight up - as it is already readily available for the system to digest.

But, when eating them as a whole mushroom and not chewing them very well - all of that fiber around the 'good stuff' needs to be digested/broken down until the body is able to get at the psilocybin.

When making a tea, or powdering the mushrooms, or even just chewing them *VERY* well, your stomach has less work to do breaking down all the extra fiber, and thus it hits your system / enters it faster.

Its like if you want an E pill to hit faster/harder - chew it up a bit before swallowing. Easier to digest, more 'surface area' of the substance is accessible, and will hit/come on faster.

Edited by kaniz (12/06/06 07:18 AM)

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Re: Does taking a multi-vitamin or orange juice intensify a trip? [Re: kaniz]
    #6339675 -

which is why i suggest one grinds the shrooms to a powder before mixing with the juice. grinding certainly produces finer particles than chewing.

grinding can be done in many ways (depending on the state of the shrooms). but an ordinary household mixer will usually do the trick.


--------------------
Mindzpores words of wisdom:
"If you think something is foolproof, you just haven't met proper fools".

Wiccan_Seeker said:
"It is better to adjust to become a better listener than to keep on cranking up the volume".

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Re: Does taking a multi-vitamin or orange juice intensify a trip? [Re: creamcorn]
    #6339741 -

creamcorn said:
i vote placebo


def with creamcorn on this one, i have had awesome trips with and without vitamin c.


--------------------
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Re: Does taking a multi-vitamin or orange juice intensify a trip? [Re: Mindzpore]
    #6340098 -

Regarding blackcurrant, I can't find anything about its effects on humans as a MAOI. Do you have anything?

The "lemon effect", if it is indeed valid, cannot be explained by the pH of the drink.

Tryptophan's amino group has a pKa around 9.39. With two methyl substituents donating electron density into the nitrogen in psiloc(yb)in, the amino group will be more basic (quite a bit more, but let's be generous to the explanation and assume a pKa of 9.5 for the psilo(cy)bin amino group).

Even at physiological pH (7.4), the amino group is going to be 99.2% protonated. At neutral pH (7.0), the amino group is going to be 99.7% protonated. Dropping the pH down to 2 can only protonate a very small fraction of the overall psiloc(yb)in, assuming we're starting from neutral.

pH simply cannot explain the effect and a number of people in that thread seem to have pointed that out already. The alternative explanations basically suffer from the same flaw as the shroom tea method because they ignore the fact that based on what is known about the psiloc(yb)in mechanism of action. Specifically, a more rapid rapid absorbtion would not be likely to cause a more rapid or intense trip, unless that difference were significantly large (i.e. absorbtion over 2 minutes as opposed to an hour). The placebo effect is still consistent with the observations, however.

Mindzpore said:
1.
if you ingest some blackcurrant juice (or anything with high blackcurrant percentage)

2.
the other way is as mentioned using lemon or lime juice(not orange its not acidic enough). mz


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Re: Does taking a multi-vitamin or orange juice intensify a trip? [Re: Chemiker]
    #6340119 -

In all honesty, I find that trying too hard to enhance/prolong/intensify any trip is counter productive. Just eat the fucking things, trip and be done.

I simply put all the shrooms in a blender with some OJ... Does it do anything? Who cares... It tastes great, pre-chews for me and I trip balls... If you want to "intesify" it, use more shrooms.

Remember, the more complex you make something, the more you can fuck up everything and end up throwing up or something. If you eat shrooms, you trip... If you eat MORE, you trip harder... simple enough.

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Re: Does taking a multi-vitamin or orange juice intensify a trip? [Re: RoosterCogburn]
    #6340149 -

I have taken mushies many times as a tea and just ate them straight. I couldnt tell you the tea come on any faster though.
But... back in the 80's I used to get the microdots "lsd" and if I were to swallow them It would take a full hour for the effects. I alsso used to take them and pop them with a lighter bottom and snort them.... In this case they came on in 15 minutes. guaranteed every time.

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Re: Does taking a multi-vitamin or orange juice intensify a trip? [Re: cpw1971]
    #6340193 -

Quote:
alsso used to take them and pop them with a lighter bottom and snort them.


That's hard fuckin' core.... :rockon:

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Re: Does taking a multi-vitamin or orange juice intensify a trip? [Re: RoosterCogburn]
    #6340304 -

PH/Vitamin C/etc aside.

Think of it this way.

- Drop a sugar cube into a drink, swirl it around a bit.
- Drop a a teaspoon of sugar into a drink, swirl it around a bit.

The teaspoon will dissolve MUCH faster than the cube.

IMO, I think the main 'benefit' of the lemon juice experiment comes from people simply grinding up the mushrooms excessively prior to soaking / drinking / eating them / whatever. There psi is extracted into the water, making it more readily available to be absorbed by the system. the stomach does not need to break down all of the fibrous material in the mushroom to get at the good stuff.

Or, when eating them when finely ground up / powdered, the surface area is much greater - and it's easier for the stomach to break down.

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Re: Does taking a multi-vitamin or orange juice intensify a trip? [Re: kaniz]
    #6340398 -

kaniz said:
PH/Vitamin C/etc aside.

Think of it this way.

- Drop a sugar cube into a drink, swirl it around a bit.
- Drop a a teaspoon of sugar into a drink, swirl it around a bit.

The teaspoon will dissolve MUCH faster than the cube.

IMO, I think the main 'benefit' of the lemon juice experiment comes from people simply grinding up the mushrooms excessively prior to soaking / drinking / eating them / whatever. There psi is extracted into the water, making it more readily available to be absorbed by the system. the stomach does not need to break down all of the fibrous material in the mushroom to get at the good stuff.

Or, when eating them when finely ground up / powdered, the surface area is much greater - and it's easier for the stomach to break down.


exactly what i have been arguing, you just said it much better than i could.


--------------------
https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!

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Re: Does taking a multi-vitamin or orange juice intensify a trip? [Re: Syle]
    #6340418 -

my thoughts exactly too... hence my vote for placebo. :smile:

i notice a major difference in eating mushrooms whole versus grinding & capping, or grinding and making a tea (where the ground ones hit faster, hit harder, and are shorter lived)... notice no difference when grinding and adding to lemon juice and doing it like a shooter though, versus the tea or caps... other than the sourness :smile:

it might differ somewhat for fresh mushrooms, chopping them up and quickly placing them into an liquid high in antioxidants might prevent oxidation of the psilosin... we know that ascorbic acid on fresh fruits prevents blueing and even reverses blueing, restoring the original color, that might be an indication it "protects" the psilosin content in some way

but since most of the psilosin content is gone by the time you're dealing with dry mushrooms... i just dont see how it could matter

but whatever, even if it is a placebo effect, there's still some usefulness there.  a more intense trip is a more intense trip, period.  no matter if there's a scientific explanation or if its all in your head. :smile:


--------------------
Cloning the easy way with LC - newbie friendly pictorial tek

All your answers are here!

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Re: Does taking a multi-vitamin or orange juice intensify a trip? [Re: kaniz]
    #6340767 -

It still does not explain a difference in the intensity of duration of the experience.

kaniz said:
The teaspoon will dissolve MUCH faster than the cube.


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Re: Does taking a multi-vitamin or orange juice intensify a trip? [Re: creamcorn]
    #6340773 -

Syle, why don't you understand that there is more to the action of a drug than simply having it absorbed by your gastrointestinal tract?

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Re: Does taking a multi-vitamin or orange juice intensify a trip? [Re: Chemiker]
    #6340856 -

I also don't think that humans can digest chitin. If that's the case, digestion of most mushroom fibres would not be necessary for psilocin extraction.

Even still, increasing the absorbtion rate of the substance would not result in an more intense or less prolonged trip. The duration of the trip is not dependent on the metabolism of psilocin.

Why must you only acknowledge models that support what you think is true?

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Re: Does taking a multi-vitamin or orange juice intensify a trip? [Re: Chemiker]
    #6341003 -

This is folly

Mushroom tea provides a quicker and slightly more intense trip.

This is true. Years of experience prove it. Anyone who has experience with both can tell you. You can also tell yourself by trying it. This argument is totally pointless.


--------------------
HELP!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Does taking a multi-vitamin or orange juice intensify a trip? [Re: Chemiker]
    #6341060 -

Chemiker said:
It still does not explain a difference in the intensity of duration of the experience.

kaniz said:
The teaspoon will dissolve MUCH faster than the cube.




Your body is not spending time breaking down the fiber to get at 'the good stuff', thus its readily available to start being processed / digested right away.

Increased surface area = increased availability
Increased availability = faster absorption
faster absorption = faster onset

I'm going to really generalize here and say : Lets take a unit of 30. This holds no real specific reference to anything, its just a generalization.

You take your dose of mushrooms, give it a chew or two, and swallow it. As your stomach needs to digest and break down the actual mushroom fiber that contains Psilocybin, the Psilocybin is less readily available. So, lets say, per minute - 1 unit of Psilocybin becomes available for your system to digest. So, by 15 mins, you only have 15 units of Psilocybin in your system.

When its in a tea, or soaked in lemon juice, or chewed up really well, or ground to a powder. There is more Psilocybin readily available to enter your system at a faster rate. Instead of trickling in at like, 1 per unit of time, it may come in at 2 or even 3. So by 15 mins, it may all already be in your system, or atleast a much larger amount, thus the faster onset.

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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