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Syle
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Registered: 10/16/05
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Re: Does taking a multi-vitamin or orange juice intensify a trip? [Re: Chemiker]
#6337994 - 12/05/06 07:43 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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i know what i have experienced bub. just leave it at that, you're not going to convince me otherwise.
i am not ignoring the information, i am merely relying on my (and pretty much every tea-tripper out there) experiences.
why don't you just leave it at that?
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DeathCompany
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Re: Does taking a multi-vitamin or orange juice intensify a trip? [Re: Chemiker]
#6338272 - 12/05/06 08:55 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Not trying to piss you off but no matter how much scientific information you post in the world is going to convince anyone. it doesn't matter what science says because anyone who has done it says otherwise. I don' think every single person that has done mushroom tea was experiencing a placebo effect, it just goes against odds. I know i probably wont convince you but maybe you should try giving some to your friends, telling them that it takes a long time to kick in, wont be as strong and lasts much longer. See what happens. Sorry about the rude comment earlier
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Edited by DeathCompany (12/05/06 09:53 PM)
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Chemiker
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Re: Does taking a multi-vitamin or orange juice intensify a trip? [Re: Syle]
#6338635 - 12/05/06 10:07 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Syle said: i know what i have experienced bub. just leave it at that, you're not going to convince me otherwise.
I am not trying to convince you that you have experienced something other than you have experienced. In a previous post you said that you don't care if it is placebo or not. I think it is placebo and you don't care, so fine (hence, I guess I'll take that to mean that you agree with me that this was placebo, since you don't care if it was placebo or not).
I don't see how you can misunderstand me so fundamentally that you think I'm trying to tell you, "No you didn't experience X, you experienced Y."
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i am not ignoring the information, i am merely relying on my (and pretty much every tea-tripper out there) experiences.
Well, perhaps you'd like to help try coming up with a model that incorporates all of the facts.
BTW, your claims about me being in the "vast minority" seem quite erroneous. There are a few posts at the start of this thread with users saying that they think this is a placebo effect.
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why don't you just leave it at that?
I put with your long string of insults. I provided you with the evidence you wanted. Now, I have to explain my position to you (which should really clear by this point) because you don't seem to understand what I'm saying.
If you're happy to say that all of the information seems consistent with placebo, then I'll leave it at that. If not, then I'll ask you to explain why and if you don't want to explain why, then I guess we'll have to leave it at that.
Edited by Chemiker (12/05/06 10:17 PM)
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Chemiker
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Re: Does taking a multi-vitamin or orange juice intensify a trip? [Re: DeathCompany]
#6338687 - 12/05/06 10:16 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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DeathCompany said: Not trying to piss you off but no matter how much scientific information you post in the world is going to convince anyone.
I think you should speak for yourself instead of saying that everyone is close-minded and refuses to consider facts.
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it doesn't matter what science says because anyone who has done it says otherwise.
No. Science is also based on experience (and if you do become an experimental scientist, you'll see that "facts" are not just things we wrote down in books). Experimental science directly involves experiencing things.
Based on how oblique this particular post of yours is, I am not sure if you are clear as to what I'm trying to say.
I believe you when you say that if you drink mushy tea, you have a shorter and more intense experience. I am saying that I believe that this is due to a placebo effect and not a result of the metabolism of the drug. If you feel like ignoring science on this one, then I don't see what I am supposed to do.
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I don' think every single person that has done mushroom tea was experiencing a placebo effect
Many people who drink mushroom tea do not report a significant difference in duration or intensity of the effects.
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it just goes against odds.
And I suppose you have data to support what the odds are of observing specific placebo effects under specific conditions with a specific psychedelic drug?
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I know i probably wont convince you
You should try using facts consistently, instead of essentially saying, "Well, I'll look at the evidence that you present but you can't convince me that you're right. Now, here's my evidence." I've already said in a previous post that I am very open to trying to explain both an increased intesity (w/ shorter duration) and all of the pharmacological data.
However, at this point, I'm far from convinced that mushy tea universally results in a significantly shorter and more intense experience than other similar modes of ingestion. I don't consider self-reporting very valid, but even in this thread it looks like we have about a 50/50 placebo : non-placebo ratio.
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maybe you should try giving some to your friends
I have used mushroom tea before (and with others). Objectively, we have never noticed any difference between tea and eating the shrooms fresh, or dry (and hell, chewing on shrooms could result in faster absorbtion - did you ever consider that? is psiloc(yb)in absorbed through the mouth? Maybe.
I have also eaten fresh shrooms, dry shrooms, shrooms whipped up in a blender with orange juice, etc. I have noticed a difference in duration. With intensity, obviously I cannot control all of the variables, but I never noticed a consistently increased intensity when it came to tea.
Edited by Chemiker (12/05/06 10:23 PM)
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Syle
Kenai Sigh


Registered: 10/16/05
Posts: 6,678
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Re: Does taking a multi-vitamin or orange juice intensify a trip? [Re: Chemiker]
#6338719 - 12/05/06 10:21 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Chemiker said:
Quote:
Syle said: i know what i have experienced bub. just leave it at that, you're not going to convince me otherwise.
I am not trying to convince you that you have experienced something other than you have experienced. In a previous post you said that you don't care if it is placebo or not. I think it is placebo and you don't care, so fine (hence, I guess I'll take that to mean that you agree with me that this was placebo, since you don't care if it was placebo or not).
I don't see how you can misunderstand me so fundamentally that you think I'm trying to tell you, "No you didn't experience X, you experienced Y."
Quote:
i am not ignoring the information, i am merely relying on my (and pretty much every tea-tripper out there) experiences.
Well, perhaps you'd like to help try coming up with a model that incorporates all of the facts.
BTW, your claims about me being in the "vast minority" seem quite erroneous. There are a few posts at the start of this thread with users saying that they think this is a placebo effect.
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why don't you just leave it at that?
I put with your long string of insults. I provided you with the evidence you wanted. Now, I have to explain my position to you (which should really clear by this point) because you don't seem to understand what I'm saying.
If you're happy to say that all of the information seems consistent with placebo, then I'll leave it at that. If not, then I'll ask you to explain why and if you don't want to explain why, then I guess we'll have to leave it at that.
not placebo because the first time i did tea mush, it was fast, and i had no idea it hit faster nor lasted shorter, i took it for the stomach comforting. but after i researched it i found out that many other people experienced a quick come up and a short overall trip.
just shut up dude and leave it, isn't it obvious your not going to change my mind? lordy...
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daytripper05
Psychonaut



Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 6,962
Loc: In my garden
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Re: Does taking a multi-vitamin or orange juice intensify a trip? [Re: DeathCompany]
#6338728 - 12/05/06 10:23 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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This thread made me laugh my ass off. I love how people argue so much about vitamins and citric acid and scientific information. Heres my simple take on the situation...
you want a more intense trip? eat better/more shrooms. I don't think it matters either way you eat the damn things. I also don't buy into any vitamin shit. (Don't think this is a negative comment towards anyone but this what I have learned from eating shrooms all different ways) Any juice you drink with shrooms is the acid breaking the mushrooms down fast thus releasing the goods faster. Your stomach contains acid that would break it down normally but lets say citric acid also helps. Some people said it before but IMHO vitamins/trip enhancers are placebo.
The only good psychedelic enhancer i have found is some good buds. But whatever you or anyone else finds to make their trip better, keep on doing it if the trip is better in the end.
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Syle
Kenai Sigh


Registered: 10/16/05
Posts: 6,678
Loc: WA
Last seen: 10 months, 25 days
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Re: Does taking a multi-vitamin or orange juice intensify a trip? [Re: Chemiker]
#6338729 - 12/05/06 10:23 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
I have used mushroom tea with my friends. Objectively, we have never noticed any difference between tea and eating the shrooms fresh, or dry (and hell, chewing on shrooms could result in faster absorbtion - did you ever consider that? is psiloc(yb)in absorbed through the mouth? Maybe.
]
for fucks sake. there are studies that show that chewing mushies in your mouth for 10 min makes it hit faster. so, then why wouldn't the mushies in liquid form which is straightly absorbed into your system be faster?
-------------------- https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!
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Syle
Kenai Sigh


Registered: 10/16/05
Posts: 6,678
Loc: WA
Last seen: 10 months, 25 days
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Re: Does taking a multi-vitamin or orange juice intensify a trip? [Re: daytripper05]
#6338741 - 12/05/06 10:25 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
daytripper05 said: This thread made me laugh my ass off. I love how people argue so much about vitamins and citric acid and scientific information. Heres my simple take on the situation...
you want a more intense trip? eat better/more shrooms. I don't think it matters either way you eat the damn things. I also don't buy into any vitamin shit. (Don't think this is a negative comment towards anyone but this what I have learned from eating shrooms all different ways) Any juice you drink with shrooms is the acid breaking the mushrooms down fast thus releasing the goods faster. Your stomach contains acid that would break it down normally but lets say citric acid also helps. Some people said it before but IMHO vitamins/trip enhancers are placebo.
The only good psychedelic enhancer i have found is some good buds. But whatever you or anyone else finds to make their trip better, keep on doing it if the trip is better in the end.
yes, but vitamins/enhancers are different than tea/liquid form psilo. hell no am i arguing vitamin C or any of that other shit.
-------------------- https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!
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daytripper05
Psychonaut



Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 6,962
Loc: In my garden
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Re: Does taking a multi-vitamin or orange juice intensify a trip? [Re: Syle]
#6338750 - 12/05/06 10:28 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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I have held mushrooms in my mouth chewed up and in my lower lip like dip(20 min on 2 occassions) and honestly think you can chew them up just as well and swallow and get the same effect. In fact I know you will get the same effect.
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Syle
Kenai Sigh


Registered: 10/16/05
Posts: 6,678
Loc: WA
Last seen: 10 months, 25 days
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Re: Does taking a multi-vitamin or orange juice intensify a trip? [Re: daytripper05]
#6338755 - 12/05/06 10:29 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
daytripper05 said: I have held mushrooms in my mouth chewed up and in my lower lip like dip(20 min on 2 occassions) and honestly think you can chew them up just as well and swallow and get the same effect. In fact I know you will get the same effect.
wow, no offense meant, but we are really starting to split hairs here now aren't we?
-------------------- https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!
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Syle
Kenai Sigh


Registered: 10/16/05
Posts: 6,678
Loc: WA
Last seen: 10 months, 25 days
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Re: Does taking a multi-vitamin or orange juice intensify a trip? [Re: Syle]
#6338763 - 12/05/06 10:31 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Syle said:
Quote:
daytripper05 said: I have held mushrooms in my mouth chewed up and in my lower lip like dip(20 min on 2 occassions) and honestly think you can chew them up just as well and swallow and get the same effect. In fact I know you will get the same effect.
wow, no offense meant, but we are really starting to split hairs here now aren't we?
what i mean by that is, i stated and agreed that chewing mush in your mouth for long periods of time has a stronger effect earlier on your system as tea would.
BUT, Chem is saying that it doesn't matter whatever way you ingest...
although, in that last post of his, he went on to say taht chewing in your mouth for 10+ min might have an effect...
-------------------- https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!
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Edgekrusher
God
Registered: 10/10/05
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Re: Does taking a multi-vitamin or orange juice intensify a trip? [Re: Syle]
#6338764 - 12/05/06 10:31 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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edit: flaming and personal attacks are funny as fuck. Especially when about Chemiker.
Edited by Edgekrusher (12/06/06 04:44 PM)
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daytripper05
Psychonaut



Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 6,962
Loc: In my garden
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Re: Does taking a multi-vitamin or orange juice intensify a trip? [Re: Syle]
#6338770 - 12/05/06 10:32 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Syle said:
Quote:
daytripper05 said: This thread made me laugh my ass off. I love how people argue so much about vitamins and citric acid and scientific information. Heres my simple take on the situation...
you want a more intense trip? eat better/more shrooms. I don't think it matters either way you eat the damn things. I also don't buy into any vitamin shit. (Don't think this is a negative comment towards anyone but this what I have learned from eating shrooms all different ways) Any juice you drink with shrooms is the acid breaking the mushrooms down fast thus releasing the goods faster. Your stomach contains acid that would break it down normally but lets say citric acid also helps. Some people said it before but IMHO vitamins/trip enhancers are placebo.
The only good psychedelic enhancer i have found is some good buds. But whatever you or anyone else finds to make their trip better, keep on doing it if the trip is better in the end.
yes, but vitamins/enhancers are different than tea/liquid form psilo. hell no am i arguing vitamin C or any of that other shit.
I agree. I said nothing about tea. Tea is my favorite way of ingestion. When I say eat I guess I also mean drink too. I was just commenting on all the vitamin bs. I like to sip on the tea over 30-45 minute time to simulate the digestion process of eating dry shrooms.
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Syle
Kenai Sigh


Registered: 10/16/05
Posts: 6,678
Loc: WA
Last seen: 10 months, 25 days
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Re: Does taking a multi-vitamin or orange juice intensify a trip? [Re: daytripper05]
#6338773 - 12/05/06 10:34 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
daytripper05 said:
Quote:
Syle said:
Quote:
daytripper05 said: This thread made me laugh my ass off. I love how people argue so much about vitamins and citric acid and scientific information. Heres my simple take on the situation...
you want a more intense trip? eat better/more shrooms. I don't think it matters either way you eat the damn things. I also don't buy into any vitamin shit. (Don't think this is a negative comment towards anyone but this what I have learned from eating shrooms all different ways) Any juice you drink with shrooms is the acid breaking the mushrooms down fast thus releasing the goods faster. Your stomach contains acid that would break it down normally but lets say citric acid also helps. Some people said it before but IMHO vitamins/trip enhancers are placebo.
The only good psychedelic enhancer i have found is some good buds. But whatever you or anyone else finds to make their trip better, keep on doing it if the trip is better in the end.
yes, but vitamins/enhancers are different than tea/liquid form psilo. hell no am i arguing vitamin C or any of that other shit.
I agree. I said nothing about tea. Tea is my favorite way of ingestion. When I say eat I guess I also mean drink too. I was just commenting on all the vitamin bs. I like to sip on the tea over 30-45 minute time to simulate the digestion process of eating dry shrooms.
oh right on, i mis-stated/misunderstood you.
-------------------- https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!
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Edgekrusher
God
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Re: Does taking a multi-vitamin or orange juice intensify a trip? [Re: Syle]
#6338787 - 12/05/06 10:38 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Syle said:
Quote:
daytripper05 said:
Quote:
Syle said:
Quote:
daytripper05 said: This thread made me laugh my ass off. I love how people argue so much about vitamins and citric acid and scientific information. Heres my simple take on the situation...
you want a more intense trip? eat better/more shrooms. I don't think it matters either way you eat the damn things. I also don't buy into any vitamin shit. (Don't think this is a negative comment towards anyone but this what I have learned from eating shrooms all different ways) Any juice you drink with shrooms is the acid breaking the mushrooms down fast thus releasing the goods faster. Your stomach contains acid that would break it down normally but lets say citric acid also helps. Some people said it before but IMHO vitamins/trip enhancers are placebo.
The only good psychedelic enhancer i have found is some good buds. But whatever you or anyone else finds to make their trip better, keep on doing it if the trip is better in the end.
yes, but vitamins/enhancers are different than tea/liquid form psilo. hell no am i arguing vitamin C or any of that other shit.
I agree. I said nothing about tea. Tea is my favorite way of ingestion. When I say eat I guess I also mean drink too. I was just commenting on all the vitamin bs. I like to sip on the tea over 30-45 minute time to simulate the digestion process of eating dry shrooms.
oh right on, i mis-stated/misunderstood you.
Quoting people looked like fun.........
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daytripper05
Psychonaut



Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 6,962
Loc: In my garden
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Re: Does taking a multi-vitamin or orange juice intensify a trip? [Re: Syle]
#6338799 - 12/05/06 10:42 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah I have to admit I didn't read but maybe 2 or 3 1/2 words chem said. I just wanted to shoot the shit for a minute.
Bottom line.... I think we all love mushrooms.
Quote:
Syle said:
Quote:
daytripper05 said: I have held mushrooms in my mouth chewed up and in my lower lip like dip(20 min on 2 occassions) and honestly think you can chew them up just as well and swallow and get the same effect. In fact I know you will get the same effect.
wow, no offense meant, but we are really starting to split hairs here now aren't we?
When I said this I thought you were refering to this making the trip more intense. Yeah I think it might increase the come on time by 5-10 minutes but who is worth the taste and for god sakes all those nasty shroom particles in your teeth? I don't think so and choose tea as my choice of ingestion.
Also when I first posted I didn't see all the stuff you had to say. I chimed in the middle of several posts and wast selective in my reading. Sorry for trying to discredit you and after closer examination of the subject I agree with what you have been saying.
Edited by daytripper05 (12/05/06 11:00 PM)
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Syle
Kenai Sigh


Registered: 10/16/05
Posts: 6,678
Loc: WA
Last seen: 10 months, 25 days
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Re: Does taking a multi-vitamin or orange juice intensify a trip? [Re: daytripper05]
#6338842 - 12/05/06 10:57 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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agreed.
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Chemiker
Stranger

Registered: 12/05/06
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Re: Does taking a multi-vitamin or orange juice intensify a trip? [Re: Syle]
#6338901 - 12/05/06 11:09 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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I can think of an explanation, but it's not specific yet.
Psychedelics obviously alter mental activity and one of the ways they seem to do so is with a general catalytic effect. I think I once read that psychedelics could even been seen as "general catalysts for certain mental processes." Take it with a grain of salt. I think that psychedelics can amplify placebo responses (or at least certain placebo responses). We are, after all, talking about mind altering drugs and my hypothesis merely requires that the drug can enhance a placebo response.
I've found that some psychedelic users do find this kind of thing offensive, because they feel it is equivalent to being told that they're stupid. This is not the case. Everyone makes mistakes and not thinking through the dynamics of psiloc(yb)in absorbtion, metabolism, etc. is hardly something that makes you stupid. I think that this could be an excellent illustration of how powerfully a psychedelic can enhance a placebo response.
So, though what I'm suggesting does have a role for the drug within it, the response is not only due to the drug (it is necessary for the drug to be present to have such a powerful response but it is not sufficient: the other cues - i.e. the "set" - must also be present.
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Sunny
free-ballin


Registered: 10/07/06
Posts: 12,350
Loc: on the magic bus
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Re: Does taking a multi-vitamin or orange juice intensify a trip? [Re: Chemiker]
#6338955 - 12/05/06 11:23 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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chemiker:
Don't PM me. This conversation is over with.
-------------------- WAFFLEZZ!!!11!!!1!!!1!!!!
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daytripper05
Psychonaut



Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 6,962
Loc: In my garden
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Re: Does taking a multi-vitamin or orange juice intensify a trip? [Re: Sunny]
#6339056 - 12/05/06 11:46 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
mr_sunshine said: chemiker:
Don't PM me. This conversation is over with.
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