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Relinquishing Judgement
    #6094110 -

One thing that I am currently working on is to become free of judging others. I am making some progress, but here is a dilemma I face:

Where I live there are many people who consider themselves to be fundamental in their religious views. Many of these folks are Christian extremists just as fervent as the Muslim extremists who are in the news these days. I also live back in the sticks where people are not at their most educated. I work and live around these sorts every day. Many of these people believe things that fly in the face of accepted science. I often hear that the dinosaurs were contemporaries of early man...and that the Earth is only 6000 years old or some such. They will quote nonexistent...or horribly screwed studies as scientific proof of their beliefs. Any discussion of the big bang, extraterrestrial life, or other religions is usually met with fear based, heavy handed attacks on one's character....often with condemnations of one's soul prophesied for the future. Nearly all believe that our current war in Iraq is a justified war...and they see it as a religious war where "WE" are killing the "infidels". The religious atmosphere is most repressive and often uninspiring at best. Methamphetamine abuse is rampant in this subculture, and I believe that the basis is spiritual. Now, I do see that the vast majority of these folks are good people at heart who do the best they can with what their culture has handed them. In other ways they are most compassionate and very community minded. They are fed this garbage from birth, so in a way they do not understand anything else beyond this.

This now is the the problem. When I am away from these people (at home or with friends) I judge them most harshly...just as I have been doing here. The very thought of this ignorance being in my presence cuts me to the bone. I secretly see these people as stupid, judgemental (funny as I too am judgemental), and intellectually my inferior in every way. I do not treat them this way. I am always respectful, helpful, and friendly, but inside I am being confronted with massive self importance due to the secret offense that I take at this whole subculture's mindset. Understanding this is one of my lifes biggest challenges right now.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

Edited by Huehuecoyotl (09/24/06 01:01 AM)

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Re: Relinquishing Judgement [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6094965 -

I know this type of people
they are like dangerous babies.
lots of compassion is necessary.
we need to intensify our own integrity in other things.
they may be fortunate and perhaps (long shot) they may see what they are interested in by seeing what you do in your life and in your family and maybe your work.
You have to have no goal beyond integrity or being impeccable.
Those babies need to be how they are for now.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Relinquishing Judgement [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #6094969 -

when I was younger, I used to spend hours lying in wait in athiest chat rooms, hoping for the christian fundamentalist so I could attempt to destroy their faith. I knew I was more intelligent than them, and their ignorance and slack jawed religious rhetoric should be wiped from the face of the earth....

then I got a life, and realized there is no point in worrying about those people, spending any amount of energy on them, or even thought. Was I not doing the exact same thing as them? proselytizing with an agenda of self-proclaimed righteousness.

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Re: Relinquishing Judgement [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6095003 -

Thanks for sharing hue !
Unfortunately I also see those kind of guys not as babies. I see them as a real threat, too.
Change feeding your self-importance to self-value and see how they feed their self-importance with all their crap.That may be the base of the following:
Then see, or make them clear too, that you can life best, without all their artificial crap and that they should be aware to not cross over your way of living, which is independent from their irrational stuff. Else you need to enforce your self-value by completely divide them out of your equation of life. Then hopefully, they can see, what they do to others...
Reflect their way back on them. That is the ultimate best weapon ever.

That's just a quit quick and impulsive opinion of me. I hope it can share some light for you on this subject.


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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Re: Relinquishing Judgement [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6095148 -

Quote:
Methamphetamine abuse is rampant in this subculture, and I believe that the basis is spiritual.


:evildog:  My dog told me he talked to God and God said I should slam this.  What do you think?



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Anxiety is what you make it.

Edited by LunarEclipse (09/24/06 08:33 AM)

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Re: Relinquishing Judgement [Re: redgreenvines]
    #6095337 -

I agree. I feel that these people could be dangerous under the proper circumstances and that they are dangerous to the notion of an enlightened society, but changing them is not my concern. My only concern is to deal with them without judging them on a moral basis. I do not feel that I should "approve", but to accept unconditionally is my goal. I just need to find the proper balence. Can one even discuss a subject like this without a certain amount of moral judgement being displayed?


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Relinquishing Judgement [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #6095344 -

psilocyberin said:
when I was younger, I used to spend hours lying in wait in athiest chat rooms, hoping for the christian fundamentalist so I could attempt to destroy their faith. I knew I was more intelligent than them, and their ignorance and slack jawed religious rhetoric should be wiped from the face of the earth....

then I got a life, and realized there is no point in worrying about those people, spending any amount of energy on them, or even thought. Was I not doing the exact same thing as them? proselytizing with an agenda of self-proclaimed righteousness.


Tremendous realization. I only go after them when then enter my turf but that's all my bullshit too.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Relinquishing Judgement [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6095416 -

Unlike the proverbial Pharisee who beat his chest and said 'I thank God that I was not made a _______.' - you fill in the blank. We are bid to be humble. Now humility is not the same thing as timidity, which I'm sure does not fit your personhood. Humility means beeing 'small of ego' essentially, which permits our inner life to then be filled with 'Agape,' or as I prefer to call it, Compassion. Compassion, or its more secularized 'altruism,' is characterized by a detached warmth. Though Compassion suggests com-passion, or with-passion (Spanish 'com') it is really dispassionate warmth. The dispassionate element is for you dealing with some miscreant people, the warmth is for them. Both elements combined in action comprise 'skillful means,' or 'Compassion in Action.' Both parties benefit.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Relinquishing Judgement [Re: Icelander]
    #6095432 -

He did indeed have something to say there, but how does one implememnt it? This class of people are in the majority in the county where I work. I have to be genuine to function in harmony with them. Repressing judgement is not the same as losing it. For the present I am just refusing to engage in negatively oriented conversations with others about this subject. I am also stalking myself to become aware of when this enters my conciousness. It is ridiculous that philosophical elitism has embedded itself inside me so that this is even an issue.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Relinquishing Judgement [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6095529 -

I would say, in the end, one can create an environment to match ones beliefs. In other words at some point you may want to work for yourself. In the mean time controlled folly is your ally.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Relinquishing Judgement [Re: Icelander]
    #6095556 -

"In other words at some point you may want to work for yourself."

In the end that IS what will happen, but my current situation is a stepping stone to a financial opportunity that will open doors elsewhere. The experience that I gain will pave the way for my goals to become reality. I want to lose judgement to maximize my personal power and create the optimum circumstances for my growth. This sort of judgement is just more of the bullshit that I need to drop, and I have an excellent opportunity to face one of the things that riles me up more than anything.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Relinquishing Judgement [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6095579 -

Quote:
This class of people are in the majority in the county where I work.


Maybe it's time to move to a blue state...


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Anxiety is what you make it.

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Re: Relinquishing Judgement [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #6095757 -

The financial opportunity that I have been offered (systems admin) is too lucrative. I have to get a few years of experience with this to be mobile in a professional sense. In about 3 years all of my kids will have finished high school and moved on, and by that time I should have ample experience and a myriad of technology certifications. I will then be mobile. I will move west, to a more liberally minded place where science teachers don't tell their students that evolution is bullshit and that they teach it only as a state requirement. In the mean time I have to become harmonious with my situation for my personal and professional growth, but yes, what you have suggested is my goal. Lately these areas have become scarce.



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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Relinquishing Judgement [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6095825 -

New Mexico is blue. How facinating. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Relinquishing Judgement [Re: Icelander]
    #6095837 -

I noticed.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Relinquishing Judgement [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6095842 -

seems like an island. Maybe we need to go down and rescue them.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Relinquishing Judgement [Re: Icelander]
    #6095866 -

Notice how the blue areas are all islands. Divide and conquer as they say.


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Anxiety is what you make it.

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Re: Relinquishing Judgement [Re: Icelander]
    #6095867 -

Well the map from 1996 was mostly blue....it ebbs and flows...right now things are at an extreme...it will flow back eventually. That is the nature of time.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Relinquishing Judgement [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6095877 -

flows back and forth between the same party that pretends to be two. :wink:

And of course it's a great distraction for the populace who want's to pretend they have choice. :grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Relinquishing Judgement [Re: Icelander]
    #6095967 -

Of course you have a choice. You can vote libertarian or green or whatever and at least make a meaningless statement.


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Anxiety is what you make it.

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