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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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problems with bacterial contams in g2g
    #5982452 -

I have been struggling with contamination problems in my g2g jars. The only contam I get is bacillus, I believe. The only substrate I work with is millet and transfers are done in a glove-box. I always soak the grains at least 12 hours. I PC jars at 15 psi for 1 hour. I followed Roger Rabbits advice of drilling 1/16 diameter holes in lid and placing filter on top. That didn't fix the problem. I will do the g2g and everything will be going fine until about day 4. The mycelium will be about 90%+ colonized, then it slows down. The uncolonized grains don't really look discolored, maybe a hint of white around the edges where they are wet against the glass. The only way I can think to find the source of contamination is to PC some jars as usual. Then take half and open them in glove-box then close them back up. Then put them all in incubator for 10 days and see if any contam. If none do then my source of contams is my inoculating jars.

Here are my questions. Can I safely use the jars to inoculate horse poo(if not, why)? I really dont want to throw them out. Does anyone know where I might be going wrong? Does anyone have a suggestion as to how I might figure it out?

Edited by 0003 (08/20/06 09:37 PM)

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Re: problems with bacterial contams in g2g [Re: 0003]
    #5982456 -

you should pc for 90 minutes, not 60.

you are incubating at too high of a temperature.

probably.


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Re: problems with bacterial contams in g2g [Re: monstermitch]
    #5982468 -

Air temp in incubator is 80-83 degrees F. They are sitting on the bottom which is probably warmer.

Edited by 0003 (08/20/06 09:39 PM)

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Re: problems with bacterial contams in g2g [Re: 0003]
    #5982673 -

which is too hot.

inside your jars is probably close to 90 degrees.

a hair over 86 and trouble starts, especially with bacteria.

You quite possibly are screwing yourself with your incubator.

made my TiT's into monotubs a while back,
best move I've made in a some time.

I see a very high percentage of new comers failing due to over-heating of jars.

I don't incubate at all, I leave everything out in a small room on shelfs.
I expose to light all the time and don't bother heating the room. Everything is great.


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Re: problems with bacterial contams in g2g [Re: monstermitch]
    #5982770 -

You also want to remove any foil. It's a mistake to leave the foil on because the moisture retained gets your filter material wet, which can allow the bacteria in the air to penetrate your filter.

Room temp is fine for incubation. In fact, there are much fewer problems and it's well worth the extra couple of days it might take to colonize.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Re: problems with bacterial contams in g2g [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #5982959 -

Thanks for the replies. Well, this is the first time I have ever read of anyone advising against incubation. This confuses me. If this is true, then I don't understand why so many people advise it. What is the ideal temperature range? Also, I don't leave foil on jars, I take it off immediately after I take them out of the PC. Can these partially comtamed jars be used in horse poo if they fully colonise or I scrape out the bad spots?

Edited by 0003 (08/21/06 02:06 AM)

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Re: problems with bacterial contams in g2g [Re: 0003]
    #5982963 -

If your using a Tub in Tub incubator you could put a piece of cardboard or bubblewrap on the bottom so most heat comes from the sides instead of the bottom.

Furthermore during presoaking you could add 20ml H2O2 per cup WBS.

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Re: problems with bacterial contams in g2g [Re: 0003]
    #5982965 -

0003 said:
Thanks for the replies. Well, this is the first time I have ever read of anyone advising against incubation. This confuses me. If this is true, then I don't understand why so many people advise it. What is the ideal temperature range? Also, I don't leave foil on jars, I take it off immediately after I take them out of the PC. Can these partially comtamed jars be used in horse poo if they fully colonise or I scrape out the bad spots?


Scraping out the contams is hardly possible since its only the tip of the iceberg that is visible, the whole jar should be considered contamed.

When not using a incubator can take alot longer but cold incubated jars have a higher chance of growing clean, just takes alot longer.

I set my incubator for 70F combined with the heat produced by the Myc. it works out fine, with a full load of half colonized jars it will be like 80F in the incubator.

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Re: problems with bacterial contams in g2g [Re: 0003]
    #5983186 -

0003 said:
Well, this is the first time I have ever read of anyone advising against incubation.


Then you haven't read any of my posts on the subject because I've been saying it for years. I incubate jars on an open shelf at normal indoor room temperature while making absolutely no attempt to shield the jars from ambient room light. Quart/liter jars of properly prepared and moistened rye berries colonize fully in ten to fourteen days. I feel it's hardly worth the risk of overheating which stimulates thermotolerant bacteria, to subject jars to a higher temperature than that.

If the room you colonize the jars in is very cold, simply put a space heater in there and heat the whole area. This prevents your colonizing jars from sitting in a box of stagnant air, which is one of the biggest causes of wetspot bacteria next to overtemperature and improper moisture content.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Re: problems with bacterial contams in g2g [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #5983585 -



Here is the chart you requested.
Do whatever you want, and listen to any advice you want.
But I'll tell you this,
as much as we may have not gotten along in the past,
RogerRabbit will never steer you wrong.
If you only choose one person's posts to read and follow, make it his.

Many people will tell you many things.
Go with wisdom and experience.
See how on that chart things get really bad after 86??
keep it under that, on the inside of the jar.
so keep the outside temp around 80 or 82 tops.

good luck.


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Re: problems with bacterial contams in g2g [Re: monstermitch]
    #5983919 -

Thank you all! I'm going to incubate my next batch at room temp, which is 73 lately. I normally kept my incubator around 82F ambient. How many degrees F does the mycelium generally produce? I never knew that warmer jars were more likely to germinate bacteria. Is there any information here about what kind of temps increase chances of bacterial germination? If substrate is colonized by bacteria, then mycelium grows over it, is it still useless? BTW I always try to use RogerRabbit's advice. He should write up a guide or something.

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Re: problems with bacterial contams in g2g [Re: 0003]
    #5983925 -

depends on the container the substrate is in.

for jars, usually about 2-5 degrees.
for bulk substrates, up to 10 or so degrees.

anything over 86 will dramatically increase chance for bacteria.

mycelium will not grow over bacteria.
1 in 10,000 chance at best.
If your mycelium does conquer bacteria, it is fine.


RogerRabbit does have several write-ups.
Look for them.

I'll shoot you a pm with some guides or something.


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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