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 GabbaDj
BTH
Registered: 04/08/01
Posts: 19,658
Loc: By The Lake
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 Re: Illegal immigration  [Re: wilshire]
#5767608 - 06/19/06 11:05 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
it seems to me that like many, you are assuming that these dirty, unskilled, criminal trespassers must, as a matter of simple common sense, be a bad thing for our country. lets see some proof. illegal immigrants bust their ass doing work you'd never think of doing so that you can have cheap food. you wanna go out to CA to pick lettuce? work in a meat packing plant? a chicken farm?
You obviously dont live in an area with many mexicans. Its people who dont see the real problems illegals pose who say shit like, mexicans are here to work shit jobs and nothing else.
Lets run this down. An illegal spends $50 a day in the US (high estimate) on beer and food and clothes. So lets say that an even $5 a day goes towards tax revenue. That same illegal has three kids in public school paid for by me and you ($8000 a year EACH), those children and the parents use the public services provided by the state and the county for medical care ($200 a pop)and at least one of the three kids is dirty rotten and once again you and I pick up the tab from the courts and jails ($2500 a pop).
So it costs about $30,000 a year for services to this family of illegals compared to the $2000 a year they put back in the form of sales tax.? Hows that good for our econemy?
Lets not forget the insurance. I cant even count how many people I know who have been hit by an illegal. Many times they run and just abandon the cheep throw away car they bought but it dont matter cuz even if they stay, youll never see them again, probably wont ever even get their real name. So you pick up the tab of repairs yourself or have to pay higher premiums.
Sorry people but a wall is truly the only way. Making laws and enforcing them laws is not economically feasible, it takes WAY too much time and only opens the door for loop holes and corruption.
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GabbaDj
FAMM.ORG
Edited by GabbaDj (06/19/06 11:14 AM)
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 wilshire
free radical
Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
Loc: SE PA
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
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Re: Illegal immigration [Re: GabbaDj]
#5767661 - 06/19/06 11:20 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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You obviously dont live in an area with many mexicans. Its people who dont see the real problems illegals pose who say shit like, mexicans are here to work shit jobs and nothing else.
you're right, i live in pennsylvania. i do see more illegal immigrants than most people around here, because i am currently finishing up a degree in horticulture and i've already done a bit of work in the field. a great deal of the workers i deal with are mexicans, and many are not citizens nor do they have work visas.
the mexicans i deal with are not the same sort of freeloaders you are used to seeing. most of the ones who make it up to pennsylvania are either following the harvest or are otherwise here to work. the freeloaders for the most part don't bother coming up here.
i certainly see a problem with people coming to this country and making nothing of themselves other than a drain on our social services and justice systems. however, i think that foreign workers are an important part of our economy and the solution is not to completely exclude them. i can imagine a system where the sort of mexicans i am used to seeing are allowed to come here, and the kind you are used to seeing are not. we needn't build a wall.
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GabbaDj
BTH
Registered: 04/08/01
Posts: 19,658
Loc: By The Lake
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Re: Illegal immigration [Re: wilshire]
#5767723 - 06/19/06 11:39 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Bwahahahahaha.. You in for a HUGE wake up call.
I got my batchelors in Horticulture from UC Davis here in California. I wanted to do this right after I moved here from Minnesota where I grew up in farm country and met the same nice migrant workers you speak of..
Around here agricultural and horticultural jobs are the hardest hit by illegals. All the way up through management the jobs are taken by legal and illegal non Americans. Its just a matter of time before the plague spreads and even the jobs youve studied hard for and think youve earned will be done by a now legal immigrant just because hes willing to do the job for less. The same jobs that used to provide a liveable wage for American families now dont pay enough to support one person in a tiny apartment. And Im not just talking the laborers.
You got to come to Los Angeles or San Diego some time and stroll around to see for yourself what an area with more than 2,000,000 illegals and a 50% hispanic population has to put up with. Then you will run scared and wait for this to happen in your part of the country.
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GabbaDj
FAMM.ORG
Edited by GabbaDj (06/19/06 11:41 AM)
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RosettaStoned
Stranger
Registered: 05/29/06
Posts: 540
Loc: North America
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
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Re: Illegal immigration [Re: GabbaDj]
#5768482 - 06/19/06 03:28 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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I think your missing a major thing here. You say they aren't just here for work? I disagree. Sure they come here to have babies, but they come here because the CHANCE for work and therefore a better life, is greater here than in their country. And that chance is greater because there are employers willing to hire them. So no matter why they come here, the ultimate reason is that the opportunity is better here than in their home country.
How do you take away that opportunity? If you build a wall, the opportunity is still there. Do you honestly believe the wall will be maned the entire length? You don't think they'll be told where the crossing points are underneath the wall? You don't think they'll be smuggled across in boats, trucks and trunks? If you think a wall is going to stop all that you are kidding yourself. What that wall WILL be used for is to keep us in someday, that's what I'm worried about with a "wall". Walls can very easily have a 2fold purpose.
What makes you think the boarder guards are even going to be able to enforce the people who do cross? You can have a big shiny new wall and it won't mean a thing if there aren't boarder patrol there to back it up. Our govt hasn't done a damn thing about the illegals yet I fail to see your rosey idea that they're going to start now just because it's almost election time. All that means is there going to flap there jaws.
Jail time enforcement on high ups in companies who hire illegals is the only way. Your wall can be 100ft high and your govt will still not enforce it and it will be worthless. Long as there is opportunity for illegals they will find a way here. That opportunity starts with companies who employ illegals. And I don't give a rats ass how much a head of lettuce costs there is no such fucking thing as a job americans wont do.
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"Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson
"Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa
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GabbaDj
BTH
Registered: 04/08/01
Posts: 19,658
Loc: By The Lake
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Quote:
Do you honestly believe the wall will be maned the entire length?
Yes I do. A voulenteer service program along with boarder patroll, minutemen and national guard could provide more than enough people to watch the wall.
Quote:
You don't think they'll be told where the crossing points are underneath the wall? You don't think they'll be smuggled across in boats, trucks and trunks? If you think a wall is going to stop all that you are kidding yourself.
I do believe that it will keep 90% of people from even trying because its no longer an easy thing to do. Do you even know just how easy it is to cross into the US? At MANY places theirs mexican cities just 100 yards from our boarder and they just walk straight over. We even have warning signs on highways that show mexicans running cross the street, just like those deer warning signs.
Quote:
What that wall WILL be used for is to keep us in someday, that's what I'm worried about with a "wall". Walls can very easily have a 2fold purpose.
Now thats just plain stupid.
I watch TV from a stream beamed into my home from a satellite from outer fucking space and you dont believe that we could keep people from jumping over a wall? Whose the ignorant one now.
Quote:
I don't give a rats ass how much a head of lettuce costs there is no such fucking thing as a job americans wont do.
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GabbaDj
FAMM.ORG
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niteowl
GrandPaw
Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc: 
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Re: Illegal immigration [Re: GabbaDj]
#5768653 - 06/19/06 04:17 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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I watch TV from a stream beamed into my home from a satellite from outer fucking space and you don't believe that we could keep people from jumping over a wall?
Putting a satellite in space, and keeping people from "jumping over a wall", are two completely different things altogether.
As long as there are better opportunities here than there are in Mexico........people will continue to come here looking for jobs......regardless of how big a wall you build.
Build a wall around your home.
Put tons of security cameras and scanners on it.
If you have a ton of illegal drugs, in you house, that is well known to the neighborhood....you will still have people trying to get into you home to take your stash, regardless of how big a wall you build around your home.
Take the stash out of your home and let the neighborhood know....and people stop trying to get into your house.
It is really very simple.
I don't understand why some people can't see it.
Ignorance I guess 
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Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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Phred
Fred's son
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: Illegal immigration [Re: niteowl]
#5768681 - 06/19/06 04:25 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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No one is claiming a wall will STOP border jumpers. You are quite correct in stating that some will find their way through it. The idea of a wall is not to terminate illegal immigration entirely, but to reduce it to more manageable levels.
Do you lock your car? I presume you do. Will that stop it from being stolen? Nope. But it sure as hell reduces the likelihood it will be.
Phred
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blacksabbathrulz
Registered: 05/22/02
Posts: 2,511
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Re: Illegal immigration [Re: wilshire]
#5769971 - 06/19/06 09:40 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
wilshire said:
Many people have no problem with illegal immigration, despite the billions of dollars of problems it causes every year.
cite sources please. what is the total tax burden imposed by illegal immigrants? what is their contribution to the GNP? what might their tax contribution be if they were legally recognized and paid taxes?
it seems to me that like many, you are assuming that these dirty, unskilled, criminal trespassers must, as a matter of simple common sense, be a bad thing for our country. lets see some proof. illegal immigrants bust their ass doing work you'd never think of doing so that you can have cheap food. you wanna go out to CA to pick lettuce? work in a meat packing plant? a chicken farm?
what is the problem with immigration? who do they harm by being here working?
What harm do they do? They get exorbitant amounts of welfare, get free health care etc. and taxpayers like myself in California have to pick up the tab. I pay over 10 percent of my income to state taxes, which would be much lower if it wasn't for these people. As for sources, I constantly hear people saying we should allow them here, as they don't cause problems.
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GabbaDj
BTH
Registered: 04/08/01
Posts: 19,658
Loc: By The Lake
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Re: Illegal immigration [Re: niteowl]
#5770196 - 06/19/06 10:34 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Putting a satellite in space, and keeping people from "jumping over a wall", are two completely different things altogether.
As long as there are better opportunities here than there are in Mexico........people will continue to come here looking for jobs......regardless of how big a wall you build.
yes they are two entirely different things. One is extremely complicated and the other is extremely simple. Why is it that we can do the extremely complicated one but not the extremely simple one?
Their will always be better opportunity in America. Thats what makes us Americans. I dont for a second think that it would ever work to go after employers. They hire illegals BECAUSE they can stay under the radar, BECAUSE they can cheat the system and BECAUSE its cheep. Trying to change the laws is a slow process and people can and will change tactics faster than enforcement. Its lose lose trying to go that way. It will create a HUGE problem within our courts, further drain our economy and will only create opportunity for lawyers and law makers and nobody else.
I like what Phred said about manageable levels. Thats what the focus should be. Manageable levels for hospitals so they dont have to take such a loss, manageable levels for jails so they dont have to be filled with people who arent even citizens and manageable levels for schools so children dont have to share books any more and dont have to do without Art, Music, Gym, Sports and all the other things I enjoyed going to an all white school.
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GabbaDj
FAMM.ORG
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niteowl
GrandPaw
Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Re: Illegal immigration [Re: GabbaDj]
#5771110 - 06/20/06 01:46 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Cubans have a whole ocean to cross.......doesn't stop them from trying to get here.
There are already tunnels on the Mexican border that shuttle drugs from Mexico to the US.
What is to stop them from just building more tunnels, under your precious wall?
Nothing.
Building a wall may slow the flood of illegals for a year or two...at best.
Taking away their opportunities....is the ONLY way to prevent them from trying to get here illegally.
The only way to do that is to punish the people who are hiring them.
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Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 5 months, 19 days
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Re: Illegal immigration [Re: niteowl]
#5771509 - 06/20/06 05:00 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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> Taking away their opportunities....is the ONLY way to prevent them from trying to get here illegally.
Donno... I'm guessing bullets would be pretty effective. North Korea doesn't seem to have too difficult of a time keeping it's people in... I'm guessing a lot fewer people would make the trek from Mexico if they knew that they would be killed on sight in the US rather than coddled as they are now.
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Just another spore in the wind.
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niteowl
GrandPaw
Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Re: Illegal immigration [Re: Seuss]
#5771544 - 06/20/06 05:46 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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Baby_Hitler
Errorist
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 27,295
Loc: To the limit!
Last seen: 57 minutes, 56 seconds
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Re: Illegal immigration [Re: Seuss]
#5771570 - 06/20/06 06:05 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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The easiest solution is for us to move south into Mexico.
We need more Americans crossing the border into Mexico. That'll fix everything.
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(•_•)
<) )~ ANTIFA
/ \
\(•_•)
( (> SUPER
/ \
(•_•)
<) )> SOLDIERS
/ \
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Baby_Hitler
Errorist
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 27,295
Loc: To the limit!
Last seen: 57 minutes, 56 seconds
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Re: Illegal immigration [Re: niteowl]
#5771596 - 06/20/06 06:23 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
niteowl said:
I say we line up all the rich people in America and shoot hem in the face with bombs!!!1
And this will solve.........
what actually?
I was being sarcastic towards people who wanted to use violence to solve social problems.
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(•_•)
<) )~ ANTIFA
/ \
\(•_•)
( (> SUPER
/ \
(•_•)
<) )> SOLDIERS
/ \
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 4 days
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Re: Illegal immigration [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#5771718 - 06/20/06 08:10 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Every act of government is an act of violence. Non-compliance is subject to incarceration or forfeiture of property. Not that there is anything intrinsicly wrong with that. It just is. And must be. Because people are selfish. Almost all of them. Not that there's anything intrinsicly wrong with that, either.
Do you know what's amazing? That an employer contemplating a new hire cannot query the SSA with the SS number, name, and approximate age of the aplicant and get a simple yes or no answer in 15 minutes as to whether the number is valid or fake. There is more information in the Shroomery archives than this would require and I can search all posts for a word in seconds.
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niteowl
GrandPaw
Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Re: Illegal immigration [Re: zappaisgod]
#5772360 - 06/20/06 12:26 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Do you know what's amazing? That an employer contemplating a new hire cannot query the SSA with the SS number, name, and approximate age of the aplicant and get a simple yes or no answer in 15 minutes as to whether the number is valid or fake.
More evidence that the government really doesn't care about illegal immigrants.
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Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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RosettaStoned
Stranger
Registered: 05/29/06
Posts: 540
Loc: North America
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
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Re: Illegal immigration [Re: niteowl]
#5772943 - 06/20/06 03:49 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
niteowl said:
Quote:
Do you know what's amazing? That an employer contemplating a new hire cannot query the SSA with the SS number, name, and approximate age of the aplicant and get a simple yes or no answer in 15 minutes as to whether the number is valid or fake.
More evidence that the government really doesn't care about illegal immigrants.
Yeah, and if we build a great wall all of a sudden they will start caring! 
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"Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson
"Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa
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niteowl
GrandPaw
Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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The government would have to want the illegals stopped in order for them to build any wall.
They want the illegals here or they would have done something about it YEARS ago......so there ain't going to be any wall built.
They will piss and moan about it long enuf, for some OJ trial or other media fluff, to get the American publics attention away from important issues, and back to watching American Idol.
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Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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RosettaStoned
Stranger
Registered: 05/29/06
Posts: 540
Loc: North America
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
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Re: Illegal immigration [Re: niteowl]
#5773092 - 06/20/06 04:30 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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They may just build the wall to make the public think they are doing something about the issue. All the while still continuing to hire the millions that will still get through and nothing will change, except we'll have a big honkin wall yay!
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"Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson
"Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa
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