Home | Community | Message Board
You are not signed in.
Sign In New Account
Forum Index Search Posts Trusted Vendors Highlights Galleries FAQ User List Chat Store Random Growery

Kratom Eye
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 |  [ show all ]
Re: Alan Watts [Re: Sporetacus]
    #5634353 -

Sporetacus said:
Why do y'all make this more complicated than it needs to be? If the teacher cannot follow their own teachings what does that say about the nature of the teachings or their method of instruction?


This thinking is so black and white that I wonder how you yourself can believe it. You're talking about superman right? The perfect man. You can take your statement to ridiculous extremes. One bad moment or slip and it's all shot because for that one second the teacher did not follow his teaching. No one is perfect at all moments. You're talking about Gurus and Gods and I thought you didn't believe in that nonsense.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Alan Watts [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5635287 -

MushmanTheManic said:
How much Alan Watts have you read?


Well, Mr Sporetacus?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Alan Watts [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5635308 -

I imagine he's read quite a bit of Watts in the past. :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Alan Watts [Re: Sporetacus]
    #5635560 -

>> I never offer to take on a student until I first dominate them.

I'm not sure if this kind of moral violence is the way to lead people out of their miseries. Alan Watts' life and teachings have helped many people walk out of their miseries, and the example he showed in his alcoholism has helped many people avoid that same misery. From our point of view, his whole life has been a positive example inasmuch as both his successes and failures have shown us the nature of suffering. There is no point in evaluating a teacher for the fidelity of his behaviour; this just causes us to become deaf to any wisdom that could otherwise be gained by listening. We cannot judge a teacher's validity in this way because there is no "right person" with the "right way." There is only that which functions to liberate, and that which functions to imprison. Both of these are entirely dependent on you and your own tendencies of consciousness.

Imposing the "real-world" on people, and dominating their views with your own because yours are more "true" to the "real-world" is not going to help anybody. It is only going to make matters worse. It encourages doubt and insubordination, causes otherwise pure teachings to degenerate, and brings about a spirit of hierarchy that destroys all spiritual awareness. No one can correctly dominate one view with another, because the "right person" with the "right way" arises only in dependence upon the inclinations and intentions of the student.


>> This is not about ego, but about showing them that my techniques and approach have REAL-WORLD value.

The ego functions in two ways. It's existence depends upon two habituated modes of consciousness. These are: 1) supposing that a "real-world" exists, that we our self exist in and have a qualified understanding of it, and 2) imposing that view upon others, or our own experience.

Essentially, what are you are saying is in the very nature of ego. Saying that it's "not about ego" is a complete contradiction. Your sentence contains all the ingredients of utter egocentricity, and has at it's heart the very condition sustaining all egocentricity: the ego not realizing ego.



--------------------


:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace

Edited by Ped (05/15/06 11:14 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Alan Watts [Re: Icelander]
    #5635563 -

I didnt post this topic to discuss his death...


--------------------
"Truth is more in the process than in the result."
- J. Krishnamurti




"We ourselves are not an illusory part of Reality; rather are we Reality itself illusorily conceived." Wei Wu Wei

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Alan Watts [Re: Icelander]
    #5635739 -

Quote:
This thinking is so black and white that I wonder how you yourself can believe it. You're talking about superman right? The perfect man. You can take your statement to ridiculous extremes. One bad moment or slip and it's all shot because for that one second the teacher did not follow his teaching. No one is perfect at all moments. You're talking about Gurus and Gods and I thought you didn't believe in that nonsense.



A question is not a statement my northern friend; nor did you attempt to answer my questions. The concept of perfection was never mentioned except by you.


--------------------
I'm Sporetacus!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Alan Watts [Re: Ped]
    #5635762 -

Quote:
I'm not sure if this kind of moral violence



:rofl2:

You quack me up with your high and mighty posturing. I am sure that you negotiated for the lowest possible salary when taking your current job as to do otherwise would be competitive and 'morally violent'.

In a friendly competition bewteen two consenting adults there is no violence; moral or otherwise. What there is is two students testing their knowledge and skills in the crucible of reality.


--------------------
I'm Sporetacus!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Alan Watts [Re: Sporetacus]
    #5636680 -

"In a friendly competition bewteen two consenting adults there is no violence; moral or otherwise. What there is is two students testing their knowledge and skills in the crucible of reality."

Well put.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Alan Watts [Re: Sporetacus]
    #5636759 -

Sporetacus said:
Quote:
This thinking is so black and white that I wonder how you yourself can believe it. You're talking about superman right? The perfect man. You can take your statement to ridiculous extremes. One bad moment or slip and it's all shot because for that one second the teacher did not follow his teaching. No one is perfect at all moments. You're talking about Gurus and Gods and I thought you didn't believe in that nonsense.



A question is not a statement my northern friend; nor did you attempt to answer my questions. The concept of perfection was never mentioned except by you.


I answered your question in two (count em) of my previous posts.

I maintain your thinking is black and white. No human has ever lived up to their teachings in my estimation. Have you every broken one of your own rules of strategy on the court? If so then your teaching is flawed and you cannot be trusted.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Alan Watts [Re: Icelander]
    #5637237 -

Quote:
and you cannot be trusted


:shiftyeyes:

Once again not talking about making errors. If Watts was never enlightened then he is not fit to talk about it. If he is teaching  'living in the now' and finds alcohol as the means to that end rather than meditation and awareness then he is a dangerous teacher.


--------------------
I'm Sporetacus!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Alan Watts [Re: Sporetacus]
    #5637305 -

How do you know that Watts never had the experience of enlightenment or living in the now? In my guess it's a passing experience. I believe (but do not know) many have had this experience and over time go on to crash and burn like many folk without the experience. It doesn't promise permanence.

Look my friend. I generally understand and agree with your point to a point.  :grin: I also know from experience that I can get ideas from people like Watts and can then go off and explore them to my great benefit. Even if he just read it or postulated it without experience he put the ideas in my head. I personally believe that he was aware of many things that he could not accomplish in fullness in his own life.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Alan Watts [Re: Icelander]
    #5637418 -

Yes, he may have experienced the now under the stars, then went home had a stiff drink and beat his wife. That sort of temporary feeling is to be cultivated though years of zazen and then forgotten in the next moment. How is that conducive to growth?


--------------------
I'm Sporetacus!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Alan Watts [Re: Sporetacus]
    #5637474 -

I never said he lost it in the next moment. The residuals may have affected the rest of his life. Fortuantely I don't need to defend him or his actions, and now I am tired of this. You understand my perspective and don't see it as valid. I see yours and I do see some validity in it and also in mine. I'm satisfied. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Alan Watts [Re: Icelander]
    #5637512 -

Quote:
The residuals may have affected the rest of his life.


His short, liver-damaged life.

Seems his eloquent use of words is more important than any example he set.

BTW, I NEVER tire of useless back & forth posts.  :grin:


--------------------
I'm Sporetacus!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Alan Watts [Re: Sporetacus]
    #5637551 -

BTW, I NEVER tire of useless back & forth posts.

Then you win. :thumbup: :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Alan Watts [Re: Icelander]
    #5638531 -

Icelander said:
Then you win. :thumbup: :heart:


Not if I will have anything to do with it. :smirk:

Back in the day, you'd have great sparring partners, like crunchytoast, but nowadays they are all whiny punks who can't even stay on track. :frown:

:headbang: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Alan Watts [Re: Sporetacus]
    #5639114 -

Sporetacus said:
Yes, he may have experienced the now under the stars, then went home had a stiff drink and beat his wife. That sort of temporary feeling is to be cultivated though years of zazen and then forgotten in the next moment. How is that conducive to growth?


True Zen is continous and loving. It is constant growth, and anything else is stagnation or decay, because one gets caught up with concepts and imagination and neglects the present which is the only place that growth can occur.

I agree with Icelander: simply because he didn't practice what he preached (and assuming that the article you posted was completely unbiased), it does not mean that what he preached was less valid. Idle speculation on why he ended up the way he did is pointless, because there are many possibilities.

Regardless, the information he conveys, which is what is actually important, is articulate and I have talked to many who have found his teachings useful.

As with any study of knowledge, limiting yourself to only one resource is foolish. I'm not sure if any one single author could possibly accurately and totally convey an entire spiritual tradition through the written word. That's why it's crucial to get input from many authors and sources when gathering knowledge.

Thus, one ought to integrate in Watts' teachings. As the Buddha says, find out for yourself, don't take his word for it. But don't simply brush it aside merely because you don't approve of the author's lifestyle. You will never once hear or read him advocating being an alcoholic in his books and speeches.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Alan Watts [Re: dblaney]
    #5639388 -

Quote:
You will never once hear or read him advocating being an alcoholic in his books and speeches.



Nope. Nor did Jim Jones advocate drinking poisoned Kool-aid.

Rajneesh was also a great intellectual writer who ended up surrounded by gun-toting psychos and lost in material gluttony.

Maybe, just maybe, the teachings truly are not worth that much. Perhaps they lead nowhere, are impossible to follow or merely sound good when reading.


--------------------
I'm Sporetacus!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Alan Watts [Re: Sporetacus]
    #5639416 -

The worth depends on the individual. Spiritual truth is merely subjective. One persons wisdom is another persons poison. Many great leaders are corrupted by wealth...some just lose faith.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Alan Watts [Re: Sporetacus]
    #5639467 -

Maybe, just maybe, the teachings truly are not worth that much. Perhaps they lead nowhere, are impossible to follow or merely sound good when reading.

Good question. I have answered it for myself. So have you. We have different answers. How very interesting. That makes sense to me.

I learned a lot from the Rajneesh and especially at the end. I took it all in and wasn't attached to any of it. I didn't want to defend his teachings and so was able to see somewhat IMO clearly into all sides of this human. In the end his self-importance got him. Tricky coyote. :grin: Can you see the cosmic joke? It's on us. :grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 |  [ show all ]

Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Alan Watts.
( 1 2 3 all )		 TheHateCamel 3,185 44 08/24/05 05:38 PM
by ninjapixie
* Alan Watts Is The Works!
( 1 2 3 4 all )		 Ahimsa 6,829 64 10/13/09 10:10 PM
by laserpig
* ESSAY:Psychedelic induced mystical experiences by Alan Watts tekramrepus 3,066 6 03/21/03 11:43 AM
by pattern
* Alan Watts interviews Aldous Huxley (mp3) LearyfanS 1,824 4 01/18/04 01:59 PM
by Learyfan
* Alan Watts psychomime 690 3 06/18/07 06:39 PM
by psychomime
* Alan Watts is the bizz-omb!
( 1 2 3 4 all )		 buttonion 6,100 64 08/07/02 03:16 AM
by PaleE
* Alan Watts Video
( 1 2 all )		 hot48yearolds 2,436 24 02/05/07 11:22 PM
by hot48yearolds
* Alan Watts
( 1 2 all )		 skatealex2 2,535 23 04/27/11 05:34 PM
by auxiliary

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
5,067 topic views. 0 members, 56 guests and 22 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2026 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.03 seconds spending 0.008 seconds on 16 queries.