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Altruism
    #5628617 -

Altruism has a direct relation with our awareness. The more you practice self-denial, the more confident and energetic you get. The bigger the indulgence you turn away, the more you profit.

If someone irritates you to no end (like your boss), instead of getting bitter about it, just laugh and don't let it bother you. In fact, cherish these people, because the more you choose to neglect them, the more you will accredit.

I feel this comes into play with overcoming addictions as well. Addictions don't have to be chemical dependencies, it can be anything from opening your fridge every 5 minutes involuntarily and just eating something to lurking at chat forums. It is simply something you cannot stop doing. The more of these processes you deny, the more the gain.

Your energy is your awareness. This is the power of your mind. Saying yes to yourself is always an indulgence. It will only make you lose energy, and cause you to become indolent, and habitually lazy.


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Re: Altruism [Re: Fospher]
    #5628686 -

I was doing pretty good with this post until I got to here.Saying yes to yourself is always an indulgence. So before I get jumpy maybe you can explain this statement a little more in depth.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Altruism [Re: Icelander]
    #5628762 -

Icelander said:
Saying yes to yourself is always an indulgence. So before I get jumpy maybe you can explain this statement a little more in depth.


Socrates had this internal voice within him which he called "Daemonius". His voice never told him to do anything constructive, but only told him to deny something. Socrates considered this to be the voice of God. One time Socrates was to aboard a ship, in which all the accomadations were set up, everything was paid for and arranged.

Daemonius told him not to. Through much turmoil, Socrates didn't board the ship, which once sailed ended up sinking.

All that we agree to ourselves is indulgence, a temptation, a sin.


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Re: Altruism [Re: Fospher]
    #5628874 -

I say yes to myself without indulging often. And other times not. If you  apply something to yourself and not to the rest, then you would not be treating yourself as equal to everything else. I don't get why one must never say yes to oneself. :confused:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Altruism [Re: Icelander]
    #5629029 -

I'm not so sure about the "saying yes to yourself" part either... I do enjoy the bulk of it though  :smile:


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Re: Altruism [Re: Fospher]
    #5629487 -

Sounds more like asceticism than altruism...

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Re: Altruism [Re: Fospher]
    #5629894 -

Altruism is a bit more extreme, You for instance have collective altruism, (someone who goes to war) and personal altruism, (taking a bullet for someone)

This as well occurs frequently in nature, To protect the hive a bee will sting a intruder, when he stings he will surely perish to protect the hive.

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Re: Altruism [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #5631618 -

In a way, altruism isn't truly altruistic in intention. Often, it's simply putting the group self over the individual self. But that's still self-interest. Just a different kind of self.


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Re: Altruism [Re: Silversoul]
    #5631628 -

But that's still self-interest.

Right on. I'm amazed at how reluctant people can be to admit to this. Self interest is healthy or not, skillfull or not. But it's always there.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Altruism [Re: Icelander]
    #5631633 -

I agree that self-interest can be healthy if you recognize that "self" means more than just you individually.


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Re: Altruism [Re: Silversoul]
    #5632051 -

Asceticism is tyrannizing the worldly self for the benefit of the afterworldly self, "life turned against life."

Edited by MushmanTheManic (05/15/06 01:04 PM)

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Re: Altruism [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5632308 -

MushmanTheManic said:
Asceticism is tyrannizing the worldly self for the benefit of the afterworldly self, "life turned against life."


Not necessarily. Often aesceticism is a way to improve one's life in this world. By removing one's attachment to possessions, one attacks the root of suffering.


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Re: Altruism [Re: Silversoul]
    #5632355 -

Perhaps, but it's very limited in scope and is an extreme. Asceticism may remove many attachments to possessions, but it fosters aversion to possessing things, so in order to really progress, one must neither be attatched nor averse. Much easier to start with the Middle Way, not going towards either extreme of asceticism or indulgence, and thus avoid years or decades of what amounts to self-torture and self-denial.


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"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Re: Altruism [Re: Icelander]
    #5632485 -

I can't give you an answer for I have nothing to say. However, go on, for I am listening, and am brainstorming an understandement of my own philosophy.


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Re: Altruism [Re: dblaney]
    #5632499 -

What's the middle way, where do you draw the line for all possible life scenarios?

Quote:
...not going towards either extreme of asceticism or indulgence, and thus avoid years or decades of what amounts to self-torture and self-denial.


Ahh, but pain is just another state of mind, and a great teacher. We learn through struggle, not leisure.


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Re: Altruism [Re: Fospher]
    #5632536 -

What's the middle way



where do you draw the line for all possible life scenarios?

The only absolute is that there is no absolute.

Ahh, but pain is just another state of mind, and a great teacher.

I don't go out of my way to seek pain, nor do I run from it if it comes.

We learn through struggle, not leisure.

I'd say that we learn through experience. Of course, it's unlearning that is key.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Re: Altruism [Re: dblaney]
    #5632572 -

dblaney said:
Perhaps, but it's very limited in scope and is an extreme. Asceticism may remove many attachments to possessions, but it fosters aversion to possessing things, so in order to really progress, one must neither be attatched nor averse. Much easier to start with the Middle Way, not going towards either extreme of asceticism or indulgence, and thus avoid years or decades of what amounts to self-torture and self-denial.


Ya, but what the Buddha called the Middle Way is still extremely aescetic by Western standards.


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Re: Altruism [Re: Silversoul]
    #5632581 -

:lol:, you're right, by the western standard of excess and overindulgence, what is biologically and spiritually appropriate is very ascetic!


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Re: Altruism [Re: dblaney]
    #5632585 -

dblaney said:
The only absolute is that there is no absolute.



How can your life be based on an axiom that has no shape? How do you determine what's right or not if you have no way to determine which way to go?

Quote:
I don't go out of my way to seek pain


I do. I only come out stronger and more stable minded.

Whatever doesn't kill you...

Quote:
I'd say that we learn through experience. Of course, it's unlearning that is key.


Unlearning what? That which you've already learned, considering that you do not need your mind to live?


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Re: Altruism [Re: Fospher]
    #5632695 -

How can your life be based on an axiom that has no shape? How do you determine what's right or not if you have no way to determine which way to go?

Intuition. "Right" and "wrong" are subjective and relative moral terms. They're only use is in controlling and manipulating people and events in order to suit your own small and illusionary will. For instance, I may say that what's "right" is what benefits everyone the most. For me that may mean not to kill anyone. For someone else, such as Hitler, that may mean to exterminate an entire race that one perceives as somehow threatening. Right and wrong are concepts, and concepts are not reality. Find your true nature, then whatever you do in any situation cannot be wrong.

I do. I only come out stronger and more stable minded.

Whatever doesn't kill you...

Are you a masochist? Life is like water, and the nature of water is to wave. Pleasure is like the crest of a wave, and pain like the trough. If you get attached to the trough, then you'll be missing out on the crest, and vice-versa. In fact, you cannot have one without the other. So why ignore either one? Simply realize your identity with the entire body of water.

Unlearning what?

Concepts: every concept, since a concept does nothing but give the illusion of separateness from reality.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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