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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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OfflineFospher
Crime FightingMaster Criminal
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Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 2,033
Loc: The Netherlands
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
Re: Altruism [Re: dblaney]
    #5632870 - 05/15/06 02:23 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

dblaney said:
Intuition. "Right" and "wrong" are subjective and relative moral terms. They're only use is in controlling and manipulating people and events in order to suit your own small and illusionary will ... Right and wrong are concepts, and concepts are not reality. Find your true nature, then whatever you do in any situation cannot be wrong.





What do you mean "find you true nature"? And once we have attained this state of mind everything we do is right, hence we cannot be wrong? By whose standards?

Quote:


Are you a masochist? Life is like water, and the nature of water is to wave. Pleasure is like the crest of a wave, and pain like the trough. If you get attached to the trough, then you'll be missing out on the crest, and vice-versa. In fact, you cannot have one without the other. So why ignore either one? Simply realize your identity with the entire body of water.





The trough is the crest. Pain can be orgasmic. Living in leisure will only make you rot, while living in struggle of the progression of the mind will lead to impeccability. Stay in the crest long enough and realize that you've already have slid down in the trough.

Quote:


Unlearning what?

Concepts: every concept, since a concept does nothing but give the illusion of separateness from reality.




That's a concept as well.  :tongue:

If you follow an arbitary doctrine, determining your actions at whim, who is to say you've made the right decision? Why should you feel that you're going the right way instead of think and pull out the map and find out?

Or will you say that the map isn't always right? It may not be, but it's be best thing you got. It's better to sail to India while finding the American coast than setting no destination with a map of unknown landmarks. Following an irrational mindset with a realistic scenario will only lead you to your demise.

Reality is rationality, and your mind is your roadmap. The only exception is the metaphysical where those rules, like quarks in Quantum Mechanics, no longer exist.


--------------------
010001100100001001000101!


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Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: Altruism [Re: Fospher]
    #5632956 - 05/15/06 02:43 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

What do you mean "find you true nature"? And once we have attained this state of mind everything we do is right, hence we cannot be wrong? By whose standards?

I mean just that: find your true nature, your true mind, Buddha-nature. There is no way to express it conceptually except in the negative.

You don't attain this state of mind. You already are Buddha-nature, you just don't realize it. In order to realize it, all you have to do is cease to identify with the individual self, the small mind. It is just a part in the whole, and there is no difference between part and whole; subject/object; etc. Reality is nondual, and you say that reality is rational, so then it would be irrational to be dualistic.

Once "you" "attain" the big mind, then "you" are no longer acting. You simply are, and action becomes wu-wei or non-action.

That's a concept as well.

Yes, in order to communicate the nonconceptual, one must use concepts.

your mind is your roadmap

The roadmap is symbolic of reality. It is not real in itself: you cannot drive to a point on a piece of paper. Your mind is a reflection of the moon. You can clearly reflect the moon only once the waves of conceptions have been dropped.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: Altruism [Re: Silversoul]
    #5633389 - 05/15/06 03:56 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

In general, I define an ascetic as a person who has renounced all 'worldly' values. They can often be found starving themselves, practicing self-flagellation, or destroying themselves in some other way. As Nietzsche elegantly puts it: "...the ascetic ideal: this hate of the human, and even more of the animal, and more still of the material, this horror of the senses, of reason itself, this fear of happiness and beauty, this desire to get right away from all illusion, change, growth, death, wishing and even desiring—all this means—let us have the courage to grasp it—a will for Nothingness, a will opposed to life, a repudiation of the most fundamental conditions of life..."

I do not think "removing one's attachment to possessions" is a form of asceticism, based on my definition. My knowledge of Zen and Mahayana Buddhism is admittedly limited, but from what I have read, it seems like a life-affirming philosophy. It appears to be concerned with correctly representing reality, escaping the grasping of maya and rupa, not practicing blatant self-denial. "...bodhi and klesa are of one and the same substance while they vary in names."


Edited by MushmanTheManic (05/15/06 03:57 PM)


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: Altruism [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5633490 - 05/15/06 04:09 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

We learn through struggle, not leisure.

Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:
For me, seeking for happiness, ironically, has always resulted in depression. Happiness is a teasing woman. Ignore her until she's deprived of attention and she will suddenly appear by your side.
I derive most of my happiness from: Doing things, working towards goals, feeling worthwhile, struggling against challenges, etc. All of these actions are packaged with suffering and failures, but I do not categorize them as being wrong or unjust. Striving can be a joyful experience in itself, regardless of eventual failure. And without suffering, the feeling of happiness would become stale and unpalatable.

I enjoy climbing! Even if that means climbing out of a valley.
The world's first Ascentic!





"It's fun to learn, cus knowledge is power!" -- Some children's TV-show slogan


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