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A million pieces.
    #5133696 -

So... I was watching Oprah today. It is a side-effect of my job. We have rabbit ears for cable input and it is the only thing besides children shows that comes on at 4 pm. (or some time aroudn there)

So, they did this big piece on the new, worlds best seller (kind of) titled "A million pieces".

It is first person POV, true story (supposedly) about this one guys "addiction" to probably every semi-popular drug.... and his "amazing" fight against this "crippling" "disease". (sorry for all the parenthesis, it helps cynicism).

Not once did this guy ever say "I remember a few occasions I had a great time". Not once did this guy ever claim that it was his fault for his addiction.

WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU AMERICA!!!!! i would have been more emotionally touched if they had a row of single mothers out there working regular jobs... because they have a better and more heroic story.

"but psilocyberin.... this man overcame his crippling addiction (media buzz adjective), he overcame so many personal obstacles, and you think he isnt amazing?"

no, i dont... because he placed those obstacles there himself.

the majority of america is of the logic that addiction is extrinsic, a disease that one can catch, a genetic predisposition (to some).

not once did this guy ever own up to the fact that he was the cause for all of this and kept blaming his addictions on his parents, other kids, teachers, and the availability of drugs.

Nor did this guy, or Oprah, once ever bring up the correlation between prescribed drugs for depression and ADHD! They only furthered the stereotype that illegal drugs are bad, and legal drugs are good.

Shroomery, take offense, because they were slamming mushrooms and LSD fairly hard as well.

Fuck Oprah, and Fuck this guy for writing this crap book.

/end rant

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Re: A million pieces. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5133730 -

Shenanigans!

Edited by JacquesCousteau (01/03/06 07:58 AM)

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Re: A million pieces. [Re: Captain Loafy McPoopdick]
    #5133756 -

you know, if i were a petty person, like people who have no contribution to a thread other than flaming, I would report you...

so... what the fuck is your deal? not only have you flamed, but i think you might even be treading into the dreaded waters of Trolling!!!! Because this is the second thread (of mine) which you have addressed me rudely.

so.... do you have any contributions other than your immaturity?

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Re: A million pieces. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5133764 -

What did they have to say about Mushrooms and LSD?

I agree, bro, I'm tired of people using bullshit rhetoric. It's so sad that the majority of people are easily cajoled as long as certain phrases or words are included into a sentence. Heroic, couragous, overcoming, brave, addiction... words like that.

It's all supposed to embody the 'human spirit,' yet nobody can see that it's just words. It's like I'm reading this book about the Flagraisers at Iwo Jima, and all the propaganda regarding the picture, yet apparently nobody was aware that the picture is actually of the second flag raised that day. And presidents and Oprah and people like that say all this bullshit which people readily consume because they can 'relate' with the topics and feel 'empowered' or something. It's like politicians had 'great' things to say when they were slaughtering indigenous peoples by throwing around words like 'society, civilization, savages... etc.' I'm so tired of this 'good and bad' bullshit. I agree with everything you said regarding addiction being a personal issue. Ok. I did meth and other nasty addictive substances but I don't continue to do so today, because addiction isn't just about availability and your 'parents,' it depends more on how you respond to such things.

So I agree, I say doubly fuck that guy and fuck Oprah, blah blah, do something cool with your money ya dumb bitch. If I were her I'd be over in Africa helping out and shit, not sitting here making shows about piss-poor American's 'addictions.' What the fuck? People are getting shot because of congenital issues, like the race they were born into, and we put all this unnecessary attention on shit like addictions. I know this sounds horribly cold and mean, but one could consider addiction a sort of 'natural selection' because addiction seems to stem from issues concerning the entire human populace and its inability to successfully live-at-peace here on Earth.
My mom is/was a former addict, so don't get all pissy because of my comments, I know they're mean as hell but who's to say that because we're humans we're above natural selection. I mean right now this planet is having a progressively harder time accomadating to humans, so if somebody thinks the whole purpose of life is to get high and kill themselves off I am not going to put forth a whole lot of effort, unless I know them, of course, to save them. There are people out there who are dying from reasons which they have not inflicted upon themselves. Keep in mind, I'm not talking shit to anyone, or any former addicts, or anyone who has died from being addicted to any said substance, just proposing a theory for why addiction is there.

That said, others can help, but it is entirely up to you to deal with your addictions, you're the only guy who can. People who blame others, in my experience, tend to be the one's most prone to addiction. Because they ALWAYS 'have a reason' to go out and do the substance... right. I justify my meanness in that most people who are truly 'addicted' to something (like somebody on junk or meth) are generally untrustworthy, and mischievous fuckers who are trying to get something from you. Surely there are exceptions...

That said, I smoke a lot of weed, so... who knows!


--------------------
...

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Re: A million pieces. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5133878 -

sorry, i'm a paranoid person. I thought you was some how talking about me.

You don't have to believe me, i'm telling the truth about how paranoid and delussional I get

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Re: A million pieces. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5134224 -

Did you read the book?

In any case, I find that Oprah regularly gets me pissed off with her prejudices and the one-sidedness of some of her programming, but that's my fault because I watch it.

Maybe you should find something more constructive to do for that particular hour, if it causes you so much grief.


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

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Re: A million pieces. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5134280 -

Not once did this guy ever claim that it was his fault for his addiction.

Well, I do agree that it's often people's own faults, but if you've ever tried to quit a real addiction, you'd know it IS a fucking big feat. Getting off opiates, for instance is fucking HARD. Especially if you've got the kind of personality to get addicted to them in the first place. It's easy to start taking them and enjoy it... but when they're right there waiting for you, and you know that you have to go through the most crippling pain possible for weeks, and it can all be relieved with one little pill, it takes the most intensely powerful self control to get over it.

Have you ever dealt with serious addiction yourself? Do you have any idea what it's like?

'Cause I sure thought I did. I thought that the fact I'd read a zillion books about drug use and what its like to be an addict gave me some deep insight. It didn't.

I had to experience opiate addiction first hand to know anything.

...and if people who are dealing with this problem and trying to escape are just treated like a bunch of stupid junkies who got themselves into this problem anyways, of course they're not going to be able to get out. It's hard as hell to do. Getting into it is easy, you can do it without even realizing it.

People who haven't been addicted can sneer and look down at the addicts all they want, but what they don't realize is that they aren't actually a whole lot stronger or smarter than them, and most people, if put in the right situation, under the right circumstances would get just as bad an addiction.

It really was nice back when I used to be able to think I was better than all those junkies. I'm sure it feels just peachy for you right now too.


Nor did this guy, or Oprah, once ever bring up the correlation between prescribed drugs for depression and ADHD! They only furthered the stereotype that illegal drugs are bad, and legal drugs are good.

Wow, they didn't even address your personal crusade! The nerve!

Isn't it equally hypocritical to think that illegal drug use is perfectly okay, but pharmaceutical drug use is an evil crutch?



the majority of america is of the logic that addiction is extrinsic, a disease that one can catch, a genetic predisposition (to some).


...and there's no truth to that? It's very well documented that if you grow up in an environment where addiction is accepted, you're more likely to take it up yourself. If you weren't raised to think there's something wrong with using drugs regularly, how can you be blamed for taking them?

To some people, heavy drug use is treated like nothing at all. If you grew up drinking, say, orange juice everyday, and then you moved to a country where orange juice drinking was treated like heroin addiction, would it be fair to say its your fault you're an orange juice drinker? It hadn't even occurred to you that it was a terrible thing.

It's also very well documented that addiction has a lot to do with heredity.

It certainly is something that people should take personal responsibility for, but the blame thing is the whole reason we have a war on drugs. Because people think that the reason there are addicts is because they are bad people who should know better, and need to be punished for their behaviour.f


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: A million pieces. [Re: Phluck]
    #5134453 -

I love John Stossel's special on the Victim-Syndrome in America....

he makes a lot of good points regarding similar topics


--------------------

http://www.myspace.com/sarasotafnb
http://www.wcwtampa.com

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Re: A million pieces. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5134469 -

Thats what you get for watching Oprah

It's guaranteed that any rational normal person would take offence in any word that comes out of her mouth

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Re: A million pieces. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5135336 -

You didnt even read the book. I saw the show too it would help if you had some background info on the guy and his story.


"Not once did this guy ever claim that it was his fault for his addiction."

Throughout the entire book he talks about how its bullshit that people try to blame their problems on a "disease". His philosophy is that its all his fault and he has the power to change himself. He doesnt buy into any of the medical bullshit, or turning to God to get better. Anyway, just read the book buddy.

Btw. James didnt bash LSD or Shrooms once on the whole show. Operah brought up the fact that Children are doing drugs and she mentions Mushrooms and LSD. James doesnt make any comment on it, and the main drugs that were bashed were alcohol crack and pills.

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Re: A million pieces. [Re: Hahzist]
    #5135351 -

Agree with above poster. Read the book before you bash the dude. The book is a few years old, and was out long before Oprah put it on her book club. The dude takes full responsibility for his actions, and hearing him talk about how weak he is for continually doing this shit when he KNEW it was bad for him is a decent insight into the mindset of someone who is addicted.

Christ. And people wonder why theres an stigma about addiction in this country. Could it be because when someone comes out and talks about addiction rationally and with first-hadn experience, they are told to sit down and shut up because your experiences dont match theirs?


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Re: A million pieces. [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #5135594 -

LOL! A friend of mine recommended the book to me and I got A LOT from it and I'm not addicted to drugs or alcohol. It subtly, and not so subtly talks about "addiction". A "need" within you that you feel needs to be filled, no matter what you do it with. It really opened my eyes.

I saw the show too and it didn't do him justice. AND if my friend hadn't purposely left out the fact that it was one of that fraud's book club book's I wouldn't have gone near it. She peeled the "book club" label off and everything! Smart Lady!


--------------------
Absense of evidence is not evidence of absense...

"Religion is a defense against a religious experience"
              Carl G. Jung

 
"So really, ordinary reality is a kind of chemical habit, sanctioned by culture, which says it's okay to use certain drugs, eat certain foods, and have certain sexual behaviors. However, when you transcend all this pre-conditioning by returning to the original wisdom of the animal body, then you discover this immense dimension of opportunity. For some people, it is a frightening risk. To me, that's the psychedelic experience."
Terence McKenna

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Re: A million pieces. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5135776 -

psilocyberin... I have to say that as an Addict and an Alcoholic and a Criminal myself... I took great offense to the arrogance you displayed in your opening post.

I have read this book (and by the way it's called A Million LITTLE Pieces, get it right) and James Frey's tale is truly amazing. He has come from the gutter. 10 years of crack addiction, alcoholism, just really leading a downright shitty life and he changed it all. You're right, he got himself in that situation. There are thousands more that do the same thing and don't have the willpower to change it.

Until YOU have experienced alcoholism and addiction first hand, with all its ups and downs, all the bad times, (the "good times" will be an afterthought) then you can tell me something about addiction. Until then, you have no credibility in this area.

James Frey is a great person, a strong man, and a skilled writer. The book is excellent and I have tremendous respect for him as a person. It is a national Best-Seller. There is also a sequel, titled "My Friend Leonard" which is exellent as well. I think I even prefer it to A Million Little Pieces.

Quote:
Not once did this guy ever say "I remember a few occasions I had a great time". Not once did this guy ever claim that it was his fault for his addiction.


You know, for people trying to quit drugs, and leave the lifestyle behind, it doesn't help much to remember "all the good times". For most of us (addicts) there have been many more bad times than good. Sure, I had some good times. And then it all went to hell. What the fuck does it matter if there were a few occasions that he had a good time? I don't understand that comment. He ended up spending time in prison and suffering the loss of close friends.

And um, did he ever say it WASNT his fault for his addiction? Do you think he owes you something?

Quote:
It is first person POV, true story (supposedly) about this one guys "addiction" to probably every semi-popular drug.... and his "amazing" fight against this "crippling" "disease". (sorry for all the parenthesis, it helps cynicism).


Yes, it IS a true story, he DID have an addiction, in my opinion is IS amazing, and the American Medical Association classifies addiction, yes.. AS A DISEASE. You make me fucking sick.. the arrogance of people.. sorry I'm just getting real pissed off here...

Quote:
not once did this guy ever own up to the fact that he was the cause for all of this and kept blaming his addictions on his parents, other kids, teachers, and the availability of drugs.


Once again, read the book my friend. What you saw on Operah isn't the end all and be all. He owns up to every single thing he did. Naturally there are other factors which help addiction flourish. I hardly beleive that you are not exaggerating however... and those factors are merely conversation points. I can agree with them myself.

Quote:
Shroomery, take offense, because they were slamming mushrooms and LSD fairly hard as well.


Did it occur to you that not everyone thinks the same way as you do? I have a soft spot in my heart for those drugs, but I could just as easily say Fuck it. They're just drugs, my friend. Drugs that people can live without.

Quote:
Fuck Oprah, and Fuck this guy


Fuck you. Self-righteous prick...

Quote:
for writing this crap book.


Read the book dumbass.

---------------------------------------

You know, it's sort of curious to me. I used to be heavily into tripping for about 3-4 years, which ended about a year ago. Since then I have gotten some much needed perspective on these things, and how they were affecting me. While I am hard pressed to deny the spritual experiences I had on them, and the ++++ experience is truly something to behold... however - after a while, further tripping just left me with more questions than answers.

And when I read posts like this, it just makes me wonder how people claim they are becoming "more open minded" due to these drugs. I beleived that myself.. but I'm not so sure now. This post is anything but openminded. Maybe it's just this one guy right now, but I just question the whole psychedelic movement. It seems very egoistic the more I think about it.

Anyone have anything constructive to say?



.... Sorry I came off as a little harsh, but alcoholism and addiction have really devastated my life, I am only 20 years old and they have already affected the rest of my life. Spent time in jail, I will be a convicted felon, and it is nothing to be proud of. I am 107 days clean without a drink of booze or a use of any drug. Naturally I took this very personally, because I relate to James Frey on a very deep level while reading this book.


--------------------

Edited by the free thinker (01/03/06 05:27 PM)

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Re: A million pieces. [Re: the free thinker]
    #5135933 -

1) i will regress my statement about his lack of acceptance of responsibility. I watched the whole Oprah show and didnt see him say that once.
2) No, I have not read the book, nor do i care to. Maybe it isnt a crap book, maybe he writes wonderfully.

3) beyond that, I stand by what I have said.

4) I have been addicted to things. Not like i really care to list them, or go on about it here. I do have first hand experience on this topic. You fucking victims who are like children that have shit themselves and cant do anything but sit in it and cry are what I really have a problem with.
Sure, addiction is hard to overcome, but dont act like you should win a Nobel for it. You got yourself addicted.... right? or did someone force you to have a great time on all those drugs? did someone force the alchohol down your throat? no, YOU did it, no one else.
Its like saying someone is a "real hero" because after he chopped his own leg off, he became a marathon runner.... yeah, makes lots of sense.

this has nothing to do with open-mindedness.... jeez, that is such a cop-out and a crappy debate. "Anyone who cant think like me is just close-minded".... real strong there....yeah.

Frankly, I could give a shit if I piss you off, because that is your problem (notice this seems to be a reccuring theme in your life: blaming other people on your emotions and reactions!) not mine.....

Why is it called ALCOHOLISM and there is no such thing as CRACKISM?

people so bad want to believe that they are a victim of external circumstances, like genetics, shitty parents, etc etc.

there is absolutely no conclusive evidence that addiction is genetic.... nor do i think that anyone has an "addictive personality".... no shit, we are human, we prefer to indulge in hedonistic pleasure... why? because it feels good.
Everyone would be a fucking lush if they could, but there is a thing called WILLPOWER, and PERSONAL CONTROL OVER YOUR ACTIONS.... but I guess those abstract concepts are inherited from your mothers father or some shit like that right? yeah.... keep working on that theory please.

If all you people can come at me with is "personal experience" and how hard it was to "overcome" your "addictive personality" (notice blame is placed on something beyond the persons control once again), i suggest you go back to the drawing boards and devise a better stratagem.

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Re: A million pieces. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5136014 -

I didn't say you were close minded for not thinking like me. I said it because you failed entirely to have some empathy and compassion for others, and to maybe have a little understanding for his situation. Instead you cut him down, said he was a bad writer (without reading the book) and made statements about addiction that would indicate to me that you have absolutely no experience with it whatsoever.

I still don't beleive you have. Please DO go on about it, I'd like to hear.

I wasn't so much pissed about the content of your post, but rather the subtle condescending tone it was written in... and the apparent disgust you have with addicts. Who the fuck are you?

If it wasnt such a great accomplishment, let's see you get on national TV you wanker. Yea.. i thought so.

Look. I'm not trying to win you over here. (If all you people can come at me with is "personal experience" and how hard it was to "overcome" your "addictive personality" )

Personal experience is everything when it comes to addiction. And stop putting quotes on everything. There is nothing ambiguous about what I said.

Unfortunately "external circumstance" has a lot to do with addiction. Yes it is largely due also to the actions of the user, but there are many other contributing factors such as upbringing, parents, etc. To think otherwise would be naieve. Why do you think people who had a rough childhood are more likely to drown it out with booze? Or act out in other ways? This stuff all has effects on people.


--------------------

Edited by the free thinker (01/03/06 06:37 PM)

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Re: A million pieces. [Re: the free thinker]
    #5136043 -

the free thinker said:
If it wasnt such a great accomplishment, let's see you get on national TV you wanker.  Yea.. i thought so.



lol. no man.... most of the people ive seen on national tv tend to be wankers... (but hey, a good jerk every now and then isnt bad right?  :smile:) its like, their main audience are dumbasses, so they need someone the audience can relate to...


--------------------
\m/ Spanksta \m/

"do you have the freedom to do with your nervous system what you want?"

"MolokoMilkPlus said:
I'll respect you if you let me give you a blow job"

"tactik said:
respect the can."


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Re: A million pieces. [Re: eligal]
    #5136150 -

Who said he did it to get on national television anyway? He's a writer, he kept a journal when he was in rehab and concentrated his energy into writing instead of doing drugs once he got out.

If you ask me, he looked pained to be on her show. Like that was the last place he wanted to be and that he, himself probably thinks she's full of shit. I don't think that he wrote this as a "self-help book" to begin with. The last thing he did in it was preach about how to live your life, he just wrote about his and a lot of people benefited from his words. He wrote about his experiences and like a lot of people, he wants to help others get through what he did. He may not have talked about his responsibility on the show, but he sure did in the book. And like I said, he looked troubled about even being on that show. A large part of the book was about how he came to see his responsibility and what got him there in the first place.

Psilocyberin, like I said before, the show didn't do justice to him or the book...he basically has the same view of "victims" as you do! I read the book and was disappointed in the show and how she sensationalized the whole deal. As usual, she's just trying to make herself look good for recommending a book in "her" club...something that she didn't even have anything to do with in the first place.


--------------------
Absense of evidence is not evidence of absense...

"Religion is a defense against a religious experience"
              Carl G. Jung

 
"So really, ordinary reality is a kind of chemical habit, sanctioned by culture, which says it's okay to use certain drugs, eat certain foods, and have certain sexual behaviors. However, when you transcend all this pre-conditioning by returning to the original wisdom of the animal body, then you discover this immense dimension of opportunity. For some people, it is a frightening risk. To me, that's the psychedelic experience."
Terence McKenna

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Re: A million pieces. [Re: dr0mni]
    #5136208 -

dr0mni said:
I love John Stossel's special on the Victim-Syndrome in America....

he makes a lot of good points regarding similar topics


torrent out there for this?

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Re: A million pieces. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5136218 -

psilocyberin said:
...Its like saying someone is a "real hero" because after he chopped his own leg off, he became a marathon runner.... yeah, makes lots of sense.


:lol: funny analogy

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Re: A million pieces. [Re: the free thinker]
    #5136374 -

empathy and compassion have nothing to do with my mind being open or closed.

I honestly dont wish to go on about what I am addicted to, or not.... face it, everyone is addicted to something. Humans need vices.... we need to throw ourselves in the ditch, so when we get out, we look and feel spiritually/emotionally elevated...

get on tv? sure, let me staple my nutsack to my thigh..... that should do it. it isnt hard to get on national tv..... probably not all that hard to get on oprah either.

blaming environment on addiction is exactly what I am talking about.

Your shitty life, and your problems are merely subjective, so is happiness. It is your reality that you have created which you are trying to get away from.

why cant an addict say "i fucked up, its all my fault that I have become mentally and chemically dependant upon this"?

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