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 killerjay
idiot savant
Registered: 10/26/01
Posts: 55
Loc: Wisconsin
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
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 honey water jars and bacteria problem 
#511549 - 01/05/02 09:21 PM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
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I started three honey water jars from spores two days ago and they all show signs of growth already. I used three different strains. One jar has Golden Teacher, another has Plantasia, and the last has B+ spores. I wish I had a digital camera to keep a log to see if everything goes normally since it is my first attempt at them. Anyway the point of the post is that I was starting to think I had bad spore syringes because I have made five batches of jars that have not had any growth. This is after four previous batches of a dozen jars in which I only lost three jars total to contamination. I believe all of the five batches were lost to bacterial contamination because they smelled and wouldn't even grow mold. The question is how could bacteria survive in every jar (using BRF and vermiculite) after I boiled the hell out of them. I am going to get a pressure cooker but since I had no problems before I can't imagine where this new superbacteria came from.
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fresh357
addict
Registered: 09/02/01
Posts: 493
Last seen: 22 years, 7 months
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 Re: honey water jars and bacteria problem [Re: killerjay]
#511633 - 01/05/02 10:24 PM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
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are you using peroxide?
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sylo
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Registered: 10/29/00
Posts: 219
Last seen: 22 years, 7 months
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Re: honey water jars and bacteria problem [Re: killerjay]
#511686 - 01/05/02 11:04 PM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
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Boiling will not kill bacterial endospores. It takes a pressure cooker to do the job. Syringes often contain low levels of bacteria and this is not a problem if you have a solid medium where the bacteria can not easily migrate. With liquid media, it only takes one contam to spoil the whole batch.
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killerjay
idiot savant
Registered: 10/26/01
Posts: 55
Loc: Wisconsin
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
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 Re: honey water jars and bacteria problem [Re: sylo]
#512077 - 01/06/02 12:38 PM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
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I'm not using peroxide, maybe I'll try it if that can kill bacteria. I don't think the bacteria is from the syringes because the honey water jars don't show any contamination after three days. It's the jars I have been having trouble with. I thought it may have been from a bad batch of vermiculite that was wet when I bought it, but I figured boiling would sterilize it. The last few attempts I made were with new bags of vermiculite that are much coarser. I thought that would solve my problem but it hasn't. I recommend others to try this vermiculite though. It's from a canadian company called ferti-lome and it is the first coarse stuff I have found, much better than Schultz and others I have seen.
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Peyotl
enthusiast
Registered: 12/05/01
Posts: 238
Loc: Everywhere But No Where
Last seen: 22 years, 7 months
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Re: honey water jars and bacteria problem [Re: killerjay]
#512084 - 01/06/02 12:50 PM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
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pressre cooker is needed. try light corn syrup or karo syrup instead of honey. honey has impurities that make it lousy for this.
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killerjay
idiot savant
Registered: 10/26/01
Posts: 55
Loc: Wisconsin
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
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 Re: honey water jars and bacteria problem [Re: Peyotl]
#512296 - 01/06/02 05:07 PM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
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Once again it's not the liquid culture I'm having problems with. That shows no signs of contamination. It is the jars of BRF that I inoculated straight from spore syringes that keep getting bacterial blooms.
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killerjay
idiot savant
Registered: 10/26/01
Posts: 55
Loc: Wisconsin
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
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 Re: honey water jars and bacteria problem [Re: killerjay]
#512298 - 01/06/02 05:11 PM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
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I even tried boiling the jars once for 45 minutes then let them sit for a day for bacterial endospores to germinate then I boiled them for another 45 minutes and that didn't work either.
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fresh357
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Registered: 09/02/01
Posts: 493
Last seen: 22 years, 7 months
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Re: honey water jars and bacteria problem [Re: killerjay]
#512406 - 01/06/02 06:40 PM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
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oh i misunderstood. the peroxide post is because i thought you were talking about your honey.
As far as your jars go...just pastuerize for an hour and a half or so...did you say only 45 min? no way, the temp wouldnt consistantly sterilize the insides of your substrate. you dont need a pressure cooker, but thats not to say one wouldnt be nice.
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killerjay
idiot savant
Registered: 10/26/01
Posts: 55
Loc: Wisconsin
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
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Re: honey water jars and bacteria problem [Re: fresh357]
#512547 - 01/06/02 08:25 PM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
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I have done five batches and most were boiled for an hour and a half to two hours and they all still had bacteria. I can't imagine boiling it longer than that because it would carmelize the mix, but that should have been more than enough time. Is there bacteria that can survive boiling and even survive being boiled two days in a row?
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Trail_Blazer
enthusiast
Registered: 11/07/01
Posts: 364
Last seen: 19 years, 2 months
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Re: honey water jars and bacteria problem [Re: killerjay]
#512554 - 01/06/02 08:30 PM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
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Yes.
--------------------
[green]There is a fine line between genius and insanity, I have erased this line.[/green]
Visit FSR
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 dimitri211
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 2,248
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Re: honey water jars and bacteria problem [Re: killerjay]
#512561 - 01/06/02 08:32 PM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
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ok after reading all that is the bacteria starting in your jars after you inoculate them with the honey mycel water??
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killerjay
idiot savant
Registered: 10/26/01
Posts: 55
Loc: Wisconsin
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
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Re: honey water jars and bacteria problem [Re: dimitri211]
#512760 - 01/07/02 12:00 AM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
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I let a few sit without inoculating and they still became contaminated. That is why I thought it was from the wet vermiculite that I used. If you didn't read the extremely long post earlier I talked about how the only vermiculite I could find was wet when I bought it. However I have since found a better source for vermiculite and have had the same problem with fresh supplies.
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WakingUpLate
addict
Registered: 12/29/01
Posts: 559
Loc: Born on a mountain, Raise...
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Re: honey water jars and bacteria problem [Re: killerjay]
#512804 - 01/07/02 12:48 AM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
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Perhaps you should try this:
From MMGG, Adaptation 23:
The raw ingredients of the substrate can be sterilized separately to eliminate nearly all of the contaminates. Spread the vermiculite and rice flour evenly into separate cake pans and bake in a preheated oven at 300 degrees F. for 20 minutes. While these are baking, boil a large bowl of water in for 10 or 15 minutes. Use these materials to mix the substrate. It is still necessary to sterilize the jars filled with substrate.
Twenty minutes well spent, Good Luck
--------------------
The rest of those, who have gone before us,
cannot settle the unrest of those who follow.
(Finding Forrester)
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killerjay
idiot savant
Registered: 10/26/01
Posts: 55
Loc: Wisconsin
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
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Re: honey water jars and bacteria problem [Re: WakingUpLate]
#513093 - 01/07/02 10:54 AM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
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Thanks I'll give that a try unless I get a pressure cooker first.
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WakingUpLate
addict
Registered: 12/29/01
Posts: 559
Loc: Born on a mountain, Raise...
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Re: honey water jars and bacteria problem [Re: killerjay]
#513119 - 01/07/02 11:32 AM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
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I forgot to tell you, If you don't watch it pretty
close the rice will scorch. To avoid this I've used
a corningware bowl for the rice and haven't
scorched any since. I always use this method
in conjunction with a pressure cooker. If you go
to: jug-or-not.com and click or the shroom it will
send you to North Florida Shroom Growers Guide,
click on "Growing" at top of page and it will take you
where you can download MMGG in veiwable format
or zip file. Sorry for long drawn out directions but
that's the only way I've found in. Peace
--------------------
The rest of those, who have gone before us,
cannot settle the unrest of those who follow.
(Finding Forrester)
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killerjay
idiot savant
Registered: 10/26/01
Posts: 55
Loc: Wisconsin
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
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 Re: honey water jars and bacteria problem [Re: WakingUpLate]
#513167 - 01/07/02 12:21 PM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
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It's been awhile since I've read the MMGG so I forgot all about that tip. I have used the oven for both sterilizing casing mix and to pasteurize bulk substrates of straw mixed with compost with total success so I don't know why it didn't occur to me to try it for this. I have some clear pyrex baking pans I can use for the BRF so I can keep it from scorching. Thanks again for the tip!
Peace,
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