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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Illegal My Ass.. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #5110725 -

Baby_Hitler said:
How far can it go though.

If 90% of the population had a Masters degree, wouldn't you need a Bachelors just to get a job as a bag boy?

More and more it seems to me that the Bachelors degree is the new high school diploma.


Your Bachelor degree doesn't just compete against other Americans, it competes against the world.


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I am in love with Acidic_Sloth


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Re: Illegal My Ass.. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #5110745 -

Baby_Hitler said:
How far can it go though.

If 90% of the population had a Masters degree, wouldn't you need a Bachelors just to get a job as a bag boy?

More and more it seems to me that the Bachelors degree is the new high school diploma.


Yes, this is what bugs me about people thinking that just increasing education will solve our problems with poverty. Education can only give you a comparative advantage, not an absolute one.


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Re: Illegal My Ass.. [Re: looner2]
    #5110752 -

looner2 said:
Your Bachelor degree doesn't just compete against other Americans, it competes against the world.


Did you get your bachelor degree looner?

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Re: Illegal My Ass.. [Re: Seuss]
    #5111085 -

SEUSS,

I agree with everything in your last post. As you correctly pointed out, supply and demand will always keep a truck loaders salary low. Do truck loaders deserve as much as doctors? Absolutely not. Do they deserve fair compensation for their services? I think so, and that's where unions can help.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Illegal My Ass.. [Re: Seuss]
    #5111979 -

Quote:
On the other side, we have the truck loader. Although loading trucks is a very strenuous job, it is not a difficult skill. It takes very easy, quick, and inexpensive to learn how to load a truck. Almost anybody can manage to load a truck. Because of this, supply and demand will ensure that truck loaders never make good pay. Why? Because if a truck loader demands good pay, there are a zillion other truck loaders that will work for less.


But when truck loading pays well, then you have a zillion people competing for the job. In the US, it has gotten to the point where many union workers will make far more in their lifetimes than those who go to college. Thats why only 43% of college students are male.

Nowadays you would be stupid to go to college unless you are getting a Ph.D., and even then it is probably not worth the investment unless you wanted to do it just for kicks, regardless of money. I go to grad school for science because I enjoy it and I make the sacrifice but I see other people getting doctoral degrees and being devistated when they realize how much they spent in real and opportunity costs compared to what they will make..and I even attend a distinguished school. Its a hard pill to swallow when you see friends who dropped out with GEDs making more than you when you graduate with an advanced degree. I suppose its great for people who don't want to spend the time with school, which is pretty much everyone.

Edited by Catalysis (12/27/05 05:06 PM)

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Re: Illegal My Ass.. [Re: Catalysis]
    #5112085 -

Catalysis, you say this stuff a lot, but I think you are a little jaded by academia. You work within the confines of grants and the bureaucracy of universities, and not within the realm of money-making.

Have you ever thought about what your Ph.D could do in the outside world? Maybe not much more than a masters and some experience or a bachelors and a lot of experience, but you'll find yourself climbing the pay chart pretty fast if you drop the research oriented pursuits and go after the money.


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth


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Re: Illegal My Ass.. [Re: Catalysis]
    #5112211 -

CATALYSIS,

I agree with everything in your last post as well.  My previous point was that rather than arguing truck loaders make too much, I would argue that skilled workers don't make enough.  I know for a fact that most companies underpay skilled workers.  My company makes $620,000 per employee per year and 50% gross margin on its products.  They could EASILY afford to pay everyone more.  But for some strange reason, some people would rather see the unskilled make less, so that CEOs can continue to make billions.  I don't get it.  :frown:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Illegal My Ass.. [Re: looner2]
    #5112300 -

Quote:
Catalysis, you say this stuff a lot, but I think you are a little jaded by academia. You work within the confines of grants and the bureaucracy of universities, and not within the realm of money-making.


Yeah, everyone tells me that. I guess my opinion is tainted by my outlook on the profession that I chose. I see doctoral graduates entering the industry at about $60-70k a year which is pretty good, but not worth it unless you really like going to school (I haven't met anyone who does) or you REALLY like science. I know if I wanted to make money by going to school, I should have done the MBA/salesman thing. I have to keep reminding myself of this.

Anyways, I think unions do some good and that some type of organization is needed to regulate unskilled jobs but I think that it can get out of control and sometimes be unfair and exclusionary to other workers.

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Re: Illegal My Ass.. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #5112978 -

My company makes $620,000 per employee per year and 50% gross margin on its products. They could EASILY afford to pay everyone more. But for some strange reason, some people would rather see the unskilled make less, so that CEOs can continue to make billions. I don't get it.

What you don't get is that these companies are in business not to pay employees better, but to pay its shareholders better.

Nobody is holding a gun to your head. If you don't like the way it is, quit and join a non-profit, or invest your money and become a shareholder yourself.

That's how capitalism works. And at the risk of repeating myself, if you don't like capitalism, leave and move to a communist country.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Illegal My Ass.. [Re: Diploid]
    #5113444 -

Quote:
What you don't get is that these companies are in business not to pay employees better, but to pay its shareholders better.

Nobody is holding a gun to your head. If you don't like the way it is, quit and join a non-profit, or invest your money and become a shareholder yourself.

That's how capitalism works. And at the risk of repeating myself, if you don't like capitalism, leave and move to a communist country.


Yes this is true, businesses are obligated to its share holders. But your idea of just picking up and moving or joining a non-profit (unions are non profit) just isnt American.

I work hard and so do all my Co workers and we deserve to earn enough to live healthy and buy a home. Thats all we ask. Fuck the shareholders and the CEOs.

All those who dont see the separation of the rich and the middle class and that separation getting bigger and bigger and how it effects the landscape of the working class need to wake the fuck up and see the light..

As for those who argue Supply and demand.. Workers supply EVERYTHING and sure some jobs can be supplied with any joe shmoe but it does take time to train anyone to do a job right and what sort of people are you going to get to supply your demand correctly if you shit all over them and expect them to live below poverty?

You people are over thinking the issues.. The simple reasoning is, you get what you pay for. We all know what happens to demand when under trained and underpaid employees fuck up orders, The demand goes down and everyone loses...

Long Live The American Working Class.


--------------------
GabbaDj

FAMM.ORG             

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Re: Illegal My Ass.. [Re: GabbaDj]
    #5113498 -

Juse a note on the origional topic...

Under the law some union groups are forbiden to strike..

These groups include cops, firefighters and in some states mecical care workers like doctors, yes many doctors are unionized just like the rest of hospital staff.

Because of this LA Firefighters have not gotn a cost of living raise in over 12 years. Cops in LA have not gotn a pay raise before Branton because cheif for more than 10 years.

Many several of our most important people get the shaft easily because they are not permitted to strike. The most they can do is organize "sick outs" where groups of them use their sick days together but this goes far from the eye opener a strike does, especialy when it shuts down the largest city in the country.

Yah, it was illigal but the members voted to do it anyway because they are getting shit on despite the BILLIONS of dollars their hard work does to support EVERYONE.


--------------------
GabbaDj

FAMM.ORG             

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Re: Illegal My Ass.. [Re: GabbaDj]
    #5114538 -

"I work hard and so do all my Co workers and we deserve to earn enough to live healthy and buy a home. Thats all we ask. Fuck the shareholders and the CEOs. "

You "Deserve a home"? Seriously? How many Bedrooms do you deserve? Do you deserve a jacuzzi tub? You deserve to be fairly compensated for your job, but your definition of "Live well" and mine may differ.

And as far as the CEO's and Shareholders go, you should be a bit more appreciative...they provide you with that job for the "working man".

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Re: Illegal My Ass.. [Re: Diploid]
    #5118082 -

Diploid said:
What you don't get is that these companies are in business not to pay employees better, but to pay its shareholders better... That's how capitalism works.


Does that mean workers should just resign themselves to paltry wages? If that's the case, why would anyone besides wealthy shareholders support capitalism???

As you've said businesses will always try to pay their shareholders better. But there's no reason that workers shouldn't try to get fair wages and benefits. Yet it seems to me like every time someone suggest workers do just that, conservatives effectively say shut up, take what the corporation wants to give you, and be thankful for it.

Quote:
Corporations have a huge edge when it comes to setting wages (there's always someoene else willing to work for less)


I agree.

Quote:
And at the risk of repeating myself, if you don't like capitalism, leave and move to a communist country.


I never said I didn't like capitalism. Capitalism is private ownership of business for profit. There's no reason workers shouldn't be allowed to make out in a capitalistic system in addition to just the shareholders.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Political Discussion
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