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So what do we do about the Shwartz?
    #4861417 -

So, I am reading in Daimyos God post and there as well as so many places, it seems people believe in a presence, awareness, force, something that permeates all of existence that is not matter itself, sexless, formless and undefinable. They DON'T see it like the traditional version of a god that is a separate entity or being from creation, ourselves or existence.

Sooooooo what do we call it, so as not to have IT confused with the separate God being some believe in?

Sometimes, I just call it the Divine or IT or The All that Is.

Some people think the Force works or First Cause or simply The Creator. Some call IT Prime Creator and us co-creators.

What's the best word for people to use for IT that don't believe in a separate God being?


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: So what do we do about the Shwartz? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4861612 -

"The Ground of Being" - Paul Tillich

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Re: So what do we do about the Shwartz? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4861781 -

I was just thinking about you and Diploid. I heard Miami and Ft Lauderdale got hit pretty good. Hope the mods will allow you to give us a brief off topic report on how you made it through Wilma. I started this post so it's okay with me if you take it off topic to report. Or you can PM me.

MOD EDIT: no, it's OK this way. Markos, feel free to share if you want to. I like to think you being online is a good sign.

Anayway, The Ground of Being works too. I wish there was one word we could make common in usage when we are NOT talking about a separate being that has humanistic qualities that judges and asks to be worshiped but just an ever present Beingness.

I don't use the word God when speaking from my own perspective because I don't want my understanding confused with the Bible version. I think a lot of people use the word God for the all that is understanding just out of lack for a different common word or phrase.

I was wondering, why there wasn't one if so many people believe in "something undefinable", different from the Bible version.

Maybe there is no good word for something undefinable.

Edited by Wiccan_Seeker (10/27/05 11:06 PM)

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Re: So what do we do about the Shwartz? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4862650 -

hehe, i was JUST about to make a post asking the same questions!

i've actually been trying to pick up, here on the shroomery, different ways that people express "god" in words. I personally think that god is undefinable, that, like spirituality, it is above words, but that by gathering different defintions of it we could get a closer idea of what it is.

so here's some different expressions i've seen:


infinite consciousness

infinite energy

all powerful

GreatSpirit

ever-lasting presence

the Whole

omnipotent entity / consciousness / being

all encompassing consciousness of the universe


These are all metaphors of the same thing of course.

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Re: So what do we do about the Shwartz? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4863121 -

Thank you both for your interest and concern. Like everything else in Reality, the spiritual permeates the material. Air is the same word as spirit in Greek - pneuma - and hurricanes are personified with names. It was originally female names, then male, now we are using the Greek alphabet with 'Alpha' and 'Beta.' Until you've experienced a category 3, 4 or 5 hurricane, with the terrifying multi-tonal moans, howls and screams, you might not get the sense that you are dealing with a spirit or a demon rather than a massive cyclonic movement of the atmosphere.

GOD must have dispatched an angel to sit on my roof because of the '108' (number of beads on Buddhist and Hindu malas [rosaries], number of Upanishads) houses in my development, ours is one of a few that doesn't require a new roof immediately. There are more trees down than from hurricane Andrew - a category 5 killer storm in '92. Cement high-tension poles were snapped in half, but we only lost power from Monday to Thursday at 2 PM. When power is restored in complexes adjacent to ours, cheers and whistles abound, fireworks are set off, Florida Power and Light workers are cheered like soldiers who chase out an invading enemy. The weather changed mercifully to high 50s low 60s at night! Unprecedented! We are now with air conditioning as we go back to 80+ days and 80 degree nights.

Only catastrophe brings people together in Miami where cultural pluralism means constant polarization of peoples. I am in a tiny minority of Caucasians and no matter how open I have been, after 22 years I have only one Haitian friend and no Cuban friends, but, I didn't hesitate to board up the broken picture window of a neighbor whom I've never spoken to before, one who doesn't speak much American. I gave a tarp to another neighbor who I haven't spoken to but 2-3 times in 9 years. He could see daylight through his living room ceiling. I showed yet another, whose husband abandoned her and their child while she was going through chemotherapy, how to start a charcoal fire. That's just my small contributions - others did similarly, while one child of darkness sold 6 gallons of water for $10 to elderly people (til he got busted). There is altruism and there is greed, same as always, but all of us have opportunities to exemplify theses virtues and vices during crisis.

I bought a generator, but we only had 10 gallons of gas and then we'd have to siphon our cars. I have to leave now for yet another attempt to find food. The Publix supermarket chain has no refridgeration so they're selling junk food. We have about 1/2 a tank of gas in my Lady's car (my Miata is newer and there were only 18 out of 2600 traffic signals working. Accidents are everywhere). We won't sit in gas lines for 3-4 hours. Thanks for listening, but the woman is asking me to get out of the Shroomery NOW! Later.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: So what do we do about the Shwartz? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4863194 -

??God?? is just a word for something that cannot be explained or fully be understood. When Abraham encountered this entity in the desert and asked him who he is, the entity did not answer:??I am God. Creator of the universe. Father, judge, rewarder and punisher of humanity.?? He answered:??I am what I shall be.?? God as a person and so on is something the church invented for the common people. Their simple minds need a simple idea of God. Anything else they would not understand and it would therefore not be possible to turn them into Christians.

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Re: So what do we do about the Shwartz? [Re: Cyano]
    #4863608 -

That is all just a bit too conspiratorial and simplistic for me. The ancient Hindus recognized both God-with-attributes (Saguna Brahman) and God-without-attributes (Nirguna Brahman). The Buddhists were heretics for recognizing only the latter aspect of GOD and coming up with a number of names that reflected their non-personal philosophy. I say non-personal because the word impersonal seems to be less-than-personal. Now, the Buddha did not care to address issues pertaining to GOD. Buddha never affirmed or denied the existence of GOD as creator, preserver and destroyer. Buddha simply would respond with the psychological predicament: "I teach a path to the cessation of suffering." Tibetan Buddhist art like a figure of Mahakala that I have, has him holding the severed head of Brahman in the left middle (of 6) arms. This 'decapitation' of the Godhead drives home the philosophy that one must hammer out one's own salvation and not depend upon grace. It does not deny the non-existence of grace any more than it denies the existence of GOD. It is simply not advantageous to wait for divine favor. That has not stopped Mahayanists the world over from praying before images of Buddha.

The Intellect behind the "Ten Thousand Things," behind the exquisite complexity of creation and the myriad life forms down to the microscopic is, or is the source of the non-personal (or better yet, Transpersonal) Absolute that Buddhists and other non-theistic faiths recognize. The systems and back up systems, the self repair and genetic code is unimaginable to me as anything but the manifestation of Creative Intelligence (which is what Transcendental Meditation calls GOD). You are free not to see the Absolute personified, or to see it as a projection of human qualities, but taking that thought a step further, one will see that the human who projects such qualities is him/herself a projection (in 3D) of the Creative Intelligence who thought us up in the first place. We are not self-created and I am not an 'accident' of mathematical probability.

I am a man who does not only believe in GOD, I am a person who Knows GOD to the extent that GOD allows my awareness to see the matrix of connections across my lifetime - the synchronicities - the seemingless random choices that turned out to be important pieces of a big 'puzzle' that forms the picture of my life. Perhaps as you become older and accrue more life experience, you also will see patterns and connections - even when NOT on psychedelics  :wink:


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: So what do we do about the Shwartz? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4864285 -

One time while on LSA I was overcome with the idea that god is light. It has always stuck with me. I never really did much research into it, but I do remember one thing. "This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light and in him is no darkness at all." - 1 John 1:5

Don't know how that fits in here, but it seems applicable.

Related reading...Link 1, Link 2, Link 3

Here is a list of solar deities(not quite the same, but related nonetheless)...Click Me


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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

Edited by daimyo (10/28/05 05:39 PM)

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Re: So what do we do about the Shwartz? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4864354 -

i would usually call it the Tao...


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Everything I post is fiction.

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Re: So what do we do about the Shwartz? [Re: daimyo]
    #4864424 -

Thanks Wiccan for letting Markos go off topic to let us know how he fared and thanks Markos for letting us know. Those storms can be so devastating.:heart:

Funny you were thinking about this too exclusive. I've also heard the words phrases that you added often used. Yours too Dr. Mandelbrot. Thanks for adding them.

Daimyo, something felt good about calling IT just The Light when I thought of IT and said it. Even stranger was how that relates to a reply I did in the We Need the Dark and the Light to See post in S&P. I'll check out those links soon.

Thinking further, I thought, maybe it's neat there are so many different words and phrases used and yet, it would be easy for communicating if we used the same one.

from what I have read, I can't see much variation of what IT means to people considering IT means pretty much everything. This is for those who can't define IT so you would thin one word would work for all to use.

Out of curiosity, maybe I'll wait a day and see if anymore come up and make a poll and see if one gets a lot of votes over the others.

I personally don't like to use the word God for the all that is because of its negative association with the Church and religion and the idea some people have of the word they may think you believe in a separate judgmental being with human male characteristics and worship and fear it. -Sooooo no where near what I feel and think about what there is that just IS.

Thanks for all post contributions. :heart:


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: So what do we do about the Shwartz? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4868989 -

Reiki


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Encourage Critical Thinking




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