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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Fascism and its allure
    #4739704 - 10/01/05 03:16 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I was driving on a country road a few days ago. While I am doing this I like to think about profound subjects (philosophy, religion, etc...).

As some of you may have picked up from some of my posts, I have become more inclined towards nationalism and tribalism in recent years. I think who you are, who your people are, where you came from, what your customs are, and the social ties that you have to your community are truly important things. Granted, my fondness for these things is more emotional than rational. I seem to get a certain amount of comfort and validation from these feelings. I assume many people feel the same way.

As I was thinking about this, I also started to think about Man's natural rights and His natural inclinations. I usually use Locke's and Hobbe's ideas as both sides of the argument in my head for this question. Locke put forth the idea that Man is naturally imbued with rights, naturally good, and that society has perverted Him and His outlooks. Hobbes put forth the idea that Man's natural state is dangerous, primitive, and animal-like. Hobbes asserted that for the sake of comfort and security men entered into artificial social contracts where they agreed to abide by certain rules. I tend to agree with Hobbe's outlook more than Locke's. I then thought about what would happen if the social contracts the most men agree to were to break down. What should take its place?

Then I started to think about Nietzche. He viewed morality as an artifical code of conduct which protects the weak and stifles a strong man's abilities. Call me harsh, but I find the idea of power intoxicating and sometimes it may be necessary to sweep the weak from your path in order to achieve your greatness. There is such a visceral thrill in reaching out and grabbing for something even if this action is outside of the bounds of socially acceptable behavior. Why should some men limit their desires and their behaviors for the sake of other's well-being?

Then I started thinking about how flawed democracy is. In order for a democracy to remain healthy and vibrant the population must be informed and vigilant. The masses are too stupid to be informed, they are too lazy to be vigilant, and their individual and collective whims pervert democracy. We see waste, factional fighting, and inneffectiveness on a regular basis from our governmental institutions. Who could deny that a single vision from a single leader might be more powerful, coherent, and grand? Why not allow a strong man to mold a society and lead his people to greatness? Why not make it your people's destiny to conquer and to prosper?

I had to pull the car over. I just realized that I had gone through all of these philosophical steps in my head and I had at least somewhat come to the conclusion that fascism and dictatorship was appropriate and acceptable. I slapped myself, somewhat came to my senses, and kept driving.


Edited by RandalFlagg (10/01/05 03:26 AM)


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InvisibleAlex213
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Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: Fascism and its allure [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4739737 - 10/01/05 03:24 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

That's some heavy thinking Randall.

I remember some reporter at Nurembug rally who was very anti-Hitler saying he had to fight himself not to throw his arm out in a seig heil when the 100,000 people around him starting doing it.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Fascism and its allure [Re: Alex213]
    #4739784 - 10/01/05 03:37 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Alex213 said:
That's some heavy thinking Randall.





Maybe if gas wasn't so expensive in the UK you could afford to drive around and do some heavy thinking.  :smirk:


Quote:

Alex213 said:
I remember some reporter at  Nurembug rally who was very anti-Hitler saying he had to fight himself not to throw his arm out in a seig heil when the 100,000 people around him starting doing it.




That feeling of fellowship with a large group of human beings is intoxicating.  The closest I have gotten to a "mass event" with this feeling was when I went to a sporting event.  I have felt this feeling on a smaller scale when hanging out with people that I grew up with in my hometown.

This is a real dilemma for me.  As I get older, I start to feel even more supportive of my community and of tribalism.  The joy and comfort I get from connecting with people who are like me, who have shared the same experiences as me, and who are from the same background as me is beyond description.  It is such a righteous feeling.  But, I do realize that feelings such as this have been directed in destructive directions.


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InvisibleAlex213
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Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: Fascism and its allure [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4739918 - 10/01/05 04:14 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Maybe if gas wasn't so expensive in the UK you could afford to drive around and do some heavy thinking

:grin:

The joy and comfort I get from connecting with people who are like me, who have shared the same experiences as me, and who are from the same background as me is beyond description. It is such a righteous feeling. But, I do realize that feelings such as this have been directed in destructive directions.

I guess the thing I'm a little wary of is how much depth that kind of bonding has tho - it's all very well shouting along together at a game, but if you needed help could you really go any of them? If you crashed the car while you were driving around pondering existence would any of them have your back when it came to pushing your wheelchair?


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Offlinephi1618
old hand

Registered: 02/14/04
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Re: Fascism and its allure [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4740278 - 10/01/05 09:06 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

The joy and comfort I get from connecting with people who are like me, who have shared the same experiences as me, and who are from the same background as me is beyond description.




I don't feel this connection with all Americans - or even a majority.


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OfflineIgnatiusJReilly
Up From Sloth
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Registered: 08/28/05
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Loc: LA
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Re: Fascism and its allure [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4740569 - 10/01/05 12:34 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I'm starting to feel this gregarious affability towards my fellow country men and women, also, and I can't help but visualize my past self heckling me and calling me weak. I consider this change a failing on my part, and I suspect I'm right.


--------------------
"A Bad Day for Pants"


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Fascism and its allure [Re: IgnatiusJReilly]
    #4740736 - 10/01/05 01:44 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

IgnatiusJReilly said:
I'm starting to feel this gregarious affability towards my fellow country men and women, also, and I can't help but visualize my past self heckling me and calling me weak. I consider this change a failing on my part, and I suspect I'm right.




I know what you mean. I do not consider it a failing though.


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OfflineIgnatiusJReilly
Up From Sloth
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Re: Fascism and its allure [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4740805 - 10/01/05 02:17 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I only mention it because it seems to be the trend as we age. Often we forget the perspective we had in youth. I intuit the change is a failing because we are bogged down with experience and knowledge as we age, and though these may be considered virtues, it seems that a purity is lost. Call me an idealist (this being an example of self-censorship brought about by my own political awareness), but I suspect that the child's eye holds a greater apeal than we'd like to admit, and the world of adults is more often ugly and depressing than not. The child's world is generally self-oriented, but never overtly selfish. A quality we adults could stand to embrace.


--------------------
"A Bad Day for Pants"


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OfflineIgnatiusJReilly
Up From Sloth
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Registered: 08/28/05
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Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
Re: Fascism and its allure [Re: IgnatiusJReilly]
    #4740815 - 10/01/05 02:20 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Then again, I'm not talking about children, I'm talking about youth. Forgive me, I'm stupid.


--------------------
"A Bad Day for Pants"


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InvisibleLos_Pepes
Stranger

Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 731
Re: Fascism and its allure [Re: IgnatiusJReilly]
    #4740893 - 10/01/05 02:49 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I'm spending a lot of time thinking about getting rich so I can retire early. My dividend investments have done better than I thought for the last four years (I'm keeping all the money myself). Look! Fording Coal almost doubled their dividend again! http://micro.newswire.ca/release.cgi?rkey=1309212698&view=70284-0&Start=0
According to this http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/quickch...p;x=11&y=15
FDG has a yield of 14.45%


FRO has an 18% yield now http://www.frontline.bm/IR/dividend.shtml

More ideas http://www.streetauthority.com/cmnts/cp/archive.asp


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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Fascism and its allure [Re: Los_Pepes]
    #4740909 - 10/01/05 02:52 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Can you please stop posting off-topic bullshit?


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OfflineIgnatiusJReilly
Up From Sloth
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Re: Fascism and its allure [Re: Silversoul]
    #4741113 - 10/01/05 03:48 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Nah, he's making a point. I get it.


--------------------
"A Bad Day for Pants"


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: Fascism and its allure [Re: phi1618]
    #4745159 - 10/02/05 02:15 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

phi1618 said:
Quote:

The joy and comfort I get from connecting with people who are like me, who have shared the same experiences as me, and who are from the same background as me is beyond description.




I don't feel this connection with all Americans - or even a majority.




Most young people feel that way. In searching for an identity, they relinquish all natural things that they witness as a child in an attempt to individualize themselves for the purpose of feeling self worth. It happens to most, and is more extreme in other cases... especially when the individual uses drugs so that their sense of reality is further broken down.

Sooner or later as age and maturity sets in, people will understand the history, culture, and social bonds that they share with their countrymen. They realize that devotion to the state provides their most potent tool for protecting human life and preserving freedom.

Humanism is the most vile, disingenuous, and dangerous social philosophy ever invented. It distances an individual from their neighbors and aligns them with an enemy. Humanism is abstract to the point of ridiculousness. By putting faith into a false bond between ALL humans, you undermine the ACTUAL institutions that hold people together from the town, to county, to state, and finally the country.


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



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InvisibleLos_Pepes
Stranger

Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 731
Re: Fascism and its allure [Re: looner2]
    #4745472 - 10/02/05 04:26 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I don't feel a connection with all Americans, either. The ones I see are white, black, Native American, Asian, etc. I hear English, Spanish, Russian, Korean, Arabic, Afgani, Pakistani, Hindu dialects, Chinese and various other languages spoken everyday.



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InvisibleAlex213
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Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: Fascism and its allure [Re: looner2]
    #4745533 - 10/02/05 04:50 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Sooner or later as age and maturity sets in, people will understand the history, culture, and social bonds that they share with their countrymen

Tell your "countrymen" that you like taking certain kinds of illegal vegetables. See what a "bond" they have with you then.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Fascism and its allure [Re: Alex213]
    #4745948 - 10/02/05 07:05 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)


Tell your "countrymen" that you like taking certain kinds of illegal vegetables. See what a "bond" they have with you then.


If looner did that, he'd have a large bond.

(AP) - looner was busted today for drugs. The judge set his bond at $10,000.


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OfflineThe14thWarrior
The Shootist

Registered: 09/28/05
Posts: 491
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Re: Fascism and its allure [Re: Alex213]
    #4746124 - 10/02/05 07:48 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Alex213 said:


Tell your "countrymen" that you like taking certain kinds of illegal vegetables. See what a "bond" they have with you then.




My countrymen have been brainwashed by a foreign and alien media. If my countrymen were able to realize the principles that our founding fathers had in mind when they wrote our Contitution, we'd be fine.

I think that everyone is more likely to mesh with people of their own race and I think that is a wholesome and natural feeling.


--------------------


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Fascism and its allure [Re: The14thWarrior]
    #4746172 - 10/02/05 07:58 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Warrior14 said:
I think that everyone is more likely to mesh with people of their own race and I think that is a wholesome and natural feeling.



I think everyone is more likely to mesh with those whom they identify themselves with. If your race is central to your identity, then yes, it will be natural for you to want to associate more with those of your own race. That is not the case for me. My race means nothing to me, so race is unimportant in choosing whom I associate with. All that matters for me is a common set of interests and a common outlook on life.


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OfflineThe14thWarrior
The Shootist

Registered: 09/28/05
Posts: 491
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Re: Fascism and its allure [Re: Silversoul]
    #4746216 - 10/02/05 08:10 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

So the majority of your friends aren't white? You post here, what other message boards do you post on?  I'd say that the majorityof the users here are white.  In reading your past posts, you discuss the political theories of white authors and philsophers.  In real life, do you walk around with size 999XL pants, thugged out, and a hot glock tucked all up in  your shit? Somehow I doubt it.


Also, if you are the person from the video that someone posted in which you (obviously drugged! :smile: ) were talking about string theory or some such thing at a campfire, I notice you didn't bring too many homeboys or ese's with you.  Why not?


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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Fascism and its allure [Re: The14thWarrior]
    #4746340 - 10/02/05 08:43 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Warrior14 said:
So the majority of your friends aren't white?



I didn't say that.  I said race is not important to me.  Reading comprehension is key.

Quote:

You post here, what other message boards do you post on?



http://www.politicsforum.org/

Quote:

I'd say that the majorityof the users here are white.



Yes, what's your point?  I've also met Shroomerites who were hispanic or asian.

Quote:

In reading your past posts, you discuss the political theories of white authors and philsophers.



Yes.  What does it matter?  I don't read them for their race.  I read them for their ideas.  I am also interested in the ideas of non-white scholars and theorists like W.E.B. Dubois, or Lao Tzu.

Quote:

In real life, do you walk around with size 999XL pants, thugged out, and a hot glock tucked all up in  your shit? Somehow I doubt it.



I actually do have a favorite pair of baggy pants, but no, I don't try to look thugged out, nor have I said anything which would lead anyone with reading comprehension skills to arrive at such a conclusion.  I merely said that race is not important to me, not that I try to act like some other race.  I simply try to act like myself, without trying to fall into some idiotic racial stereotype.

Quote:

Also, if you are the person from the video that someone posted in which you (obviously drugged! :smile: ) were talking about string theory or some such thing at a campfire, I notice you didn't bring too many homeboys or ese's with you.  Why not?



I flew out there by myself.  There were people of other races there, I assure you.  BTW, I'm not the drugged-up one who was rambling loudly in that video.  I'm the long-haired one on the left who was talking to him.  Just thought I'd clear that up.

Why the obsession with race?


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