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To simmer or to not simmer? *WBS*
    #4633605 -

What's the consensus around these parts? I'm at a loss right now with contam problems. I've used all different lid styles. My oyster+shiitaki  LC'c that I'm doing are all contam free, so I'm certain it's not the syringe. It's got to be somewhere in the WBS prep. Before I started doing WBS I was around 98% successful. So I'm confident in my overall sterile techniques. Would simmering help in the pc'ing process. From everything that I've been reading, this shouldn't be necassary. Please help! :crazy:


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Man says, "God, show me and I will believe." God says, "Believe and I will show you."

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Re: To simmer or to not simmer? *WBS* [Re: Aiko Aiko]
    #4633801 -

Anyone?


--------------------
Man says, "God, show me and I will believe." God says, "Believe and I will show you."

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Re: To simmer or to not simmer? *WBS* [Re: Aiko Aiko]
    #4633867 -

I doubt simmering would help with contam problems. Simmering is primarily to supersaturate the grains with water. Grains contam easier than cakes so possibly you will need to move to a glovebox for your work.
FYI - Several people on this forum never simmer their WBS.


--------------------
I do not grow anything illegal.
I do not sell anything.
I am, however, a very curious individual.
I also try to be helpful.

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Re: To simmer or to not simmer? *WBS* [Re: Aiko Aiko]
    #4633882 -

I don't simmer my WBS...I soak mine...then rinse it real good...strain it...and then pressure cook it.

I do use a still air box.
I used to do open air inoculations and really didn't have any contam issues back then.

how long are you pressure cooking your WBS?

what does your WBS look like when its done being pressure cooked?
is it dry looking?
is it wet looking?

what tek are you following?

tell us the procedure that you are using...step by step.

how do you know your LC isn't contamed?

we need more information to help you.

tc


--------------------
Laterz, Road

Who the hell you callin crazy?
You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch!

Brainiac said:
PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.


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Re: To simmer or to not simmer? *WBS* [Re: FreedomFight]
    #4633886 -

I would recommend simmering IF you are experiencing problems with contams. I'm sure you've heard that this helps the endospores germinate so that they are more easily killed during PC'ing. You could maybe up your PC'ing times. With my WBS, I just bring a pot of water to a rolling boil, dump the WBS in, turn off the heat and put the lid on the pot. I'll watch TV, smoke a bowl,etc. Let the seeds sit in the steaming pot for about an hour and don't lift the lid during that time. This seems to saturate the seeds perfectly and kind of "simmers" them also. I'll let the seed drain for about 15min in a strainer, load into jars and PC for about 90min. Haven't had a contam yet doing it this way. GL dude!


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Quick WBS Prep

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Re: To simmer or to not simmer? *WBS* [Re: FooMan]
    #4633989 -

Quote:
I would recommend simmering IF you are experiencing problems with contams


Don't you mean it the other way around? :lol:

24hour soak and then a nice simmer will cause all the seeds to burst (also does something to the starch but i dont remeber in full detail), that means that their water capacity has been reached and then supersceeded(sp?), Therefore ya'd have To much water, And over-saturated seeds turns into goo on the bottom of your wbs and that contams Big time.

Anyways, I wouldn't simmer personally, With WBS it isn't necessary, just more of a hassle IME.

Gl

-Gnostic


--------------------
For the sake of those seeking knowledge.
I've provided some in my signature.
Double Tek Pictorial
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Soaking wbs - The Final Answer by Agar
50/50 Coco Coir versus 50/50 Peat Moss.

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Re: To simmer or to not simmer? *WBS* [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #4634128 -

Yeah, I'm a soaker.
Maybe a very short simmer after the soak to get a little more moisture in there if you are casing the grain directly and not using as spawn. Soaked WBS is usually on the low end of moisture content. Doesn't matter in spawn, but it can affect cased grains maximum yield potential. Also, this only matters if the rest of your setup and skills will put you near the maxumum yield potential anyway.


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.

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Re: To simmer or to not simmer? *WBS* [Re: mycofile]
    #4634185 -

Im using this tek
I PC for 90 min. The seed looks a little on the wet side. Maybe a slight goo on the bottom. I soak for 12 hrs then drain for an hour. I guess I'm not 100% sure the LC isn't contaminated. Just by looking at it, I dont see any sign of contams. It looks like the same thing the original culture looked like after I got it from sporeworks. I hope that helps some.


--------------------
Man says, "God, show me and I will believe." God says, "Believe and I will show you."

Edited by Aiko Aiko (09/08/05 02:55 PM)

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Re: To simmer or to not simmer? *WBS* [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #4634202 -

IGnosticAbhorI said:
Quote:
I would recommend simmering IF you are experiencing problems with contams


Don't you mean it the other way around?  :lol:


No, I didn't.  :rolleyes:
He said he doesn't simmer now and he is experiencing problems with contams. I was suggesting IF he is having problems with contams, maybe he should try simmering. The soak alone will cause endospores to germinate, the simmering will kill some of those endospores and really soak the seeds, the PC'ing will finish the job.  The method I use as I stated above accomplishes both tasks of soaking and simmering in about an hour with few bursted seeds.


--------------------
Quick WBS Prep

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Re: To simmer or to not simmer? *WBS* [Re: Aiko Aiko]
    #4634235 -

hmmm

12 hr soak. Have you tried soaking for longer period? I usually soak for 24 hrs at the least.

I don't simmer, but bring to a boil real quick before straining. This kills some of the endospores. I then don't have to strain for more than a couple of minutes because the water is all removed by steam after pouring in the strainer. (thanks scatmanrav for this idea)

I had a real problem with stalling/contams before though, I found it was because the jars would dry out too quick. This method seems to work better for me.

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Re: To simmer or to not simmer? *WBS* [Re: CLUTCH]
    #4634261 -

Interesting. I read that after about 12 hours you start getting ferementation. I'll give the longer soak a try. I assume that will germinate more endospores?


--------------------
Man says, "God, show me and I will believe." God says, "Believe and I will show you."

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Re: To simmer or to not simmer? *WBS* [Re: Aiko Aiko]
    #4634331 -

I always soak for at least 24 hours. I also simmer. I know my seed is absorbing more water during the simmer because today I had to add 2 gallons of water to my WBS while simmering. The water was about 4" above the seed after soaking. After I started simmering, I had to add water twice.

Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony.
:heart: Hippie Chick  :mushroom2:


--------------------
Peace,Love and Happiness
:heart: HC :mushroom2:

Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose..............

I LUV My Greenhouse
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5545848#5545848

My First Pans
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6212058#6212058

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Re: To simmer or to not simmer? *WBS* [Re: HippieChick]
    #4634361 -

So soak then simmer at the end?


--------------------
Man says, "God, show me and I will believe." God says, "Believe and I will show you."

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Re: To simmer or to not simmer? *WBS* [Re: Aiko Aiko]
    #4634370 -

i soak for 36 hours without simmering and rinse real well then pc. i knock my jars up in a glovebox. contam free.

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Re: To simmer or to not simmer? *WBS* [Re: Aiko Aiko]
    #4634429 -

That's up to you. Just letting you know what works for me. But yes, if you're going to simmer I would do it after soaking.

Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony.
:heart: Hippie Chick  :mushroom2:


--------------------
Peace,Love and Happiness
:heart: HC :mushroom2:

Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose..............

I LUV My Greenhouse
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5545848#5545848

My First Pans
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6212058#6212058

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Re: To simmer or to not simmer? *WBS* [Re: HippieChick]
    #4634446 -

Cool, thanx for all the input guys, and gal. :grin:


--------------------
Man says, "God, show me and I will believe." God says, "Believe and I will show you."

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Re: To simmer or to not simmer? *WBS* [Re: HippieChick]
    #4634457 -

I messed my last wbs jars water content up again :mad:, Im not messing with wbs anymore CORN RULES!!


--------------------
So hard to be ....WDWGFH?
Texas is humongus compared to France
Our Gair, who art in Texas,
Paw Paw be thy Name....
My friends are thirsty


You never see a motorcycle parked outside a Psychiatrist office:biker:

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Re: To simmer or to not simmer? *WBS* [Re: OldSpice]
    #4634484 -

Sorry to hear that :frown:

I'm doing some now that are 25% WBS,25% Rye and 50% Poo.

I'd just as soon sterilize a bunch of jars, inoculate with LC and then case and fruit when colonized. So sick of some of my poo going green while colonizing.

Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony.
:heart: Hippie Chick  :mushroom2:


--------------------
Peace,Love and Happiness
:heart: HC :mushroom2:

Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose..............

I LUV My Greenhouse
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5545848#5545848

My First Pans
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6212058#6212058

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Re: To simmer or to not simmer? *WBS* [Re: HippieChick]
    #4634514 -

I do mixes like that also but poo doesnt contam on me at all, It colonises really quick iof you mix a bit of verm in it but you allready know that im shure


--------------------
So hard to be ....WDWGFH?
Texas is humongus compared to France
Our Gair, who art in Texas,
Paw Paw be thy Name....
My friends are thirsty


You never see a motorcycle parked outside a Psychiatrist office:biker:

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Re: To simmer or to not simmer? *WBS* [Re: OldSpice]
    #4634716 -

I use verm with it. Might just be the time of year.

Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony.
:heart: Hippie Chick  :mushroom2:


--------------------
Peace,Love and Happiness
:heart: HC :mushroom2:

Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose..............

I LUV My Greenhouse
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5545848#5545848

My First Pans
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6212058#6212058

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Re: To simmer or to not simmer? *WBS* [Re: HippieChick]
    #4635109 -

Quote:
No, I didn't.
He said he doesn't simmer now and he is experiencing problems with contams. I was suggesting IF he is having problems with contams, maybe he should try simmering. The soak alone will cause endospores to germinate, the simmering will kill some of those endospores and really soak the seeds, the PC'ing will finish the job. The method I use as I stated above accomplishes both tasks of soaking and simmering in about an hour with few bursted seeds.


I think this is backwards too. If people are having contam problems, making your grain a little drier will help alot. Soaking WBS will never result in a moisture content over 45%. Simmering can get it above 80% and can cause burst kernels which are more susceptible to contams. Soaking will never result in busted kernels. Also, simmering will not kill any contams that pcing for 90 minutes (quart jars) won't. In fact, the only reason I could see that this would help this guy is just that sometimes when you change the way you do things, it works out. You don't end up knowing what you did wrong the first time, it just happens like that sometimes.
Quote:
Interesting. I read that after about 12 hours you start getting ferementation. I'll give the longer soak a try. I assume that will germinate more endospores?


You will start to get fermentation. It's not a problem IME, particularly if you rinse the seed well after the soak which you should anyway. IME, 12 hours is plenty of time to hatch endospores, meaning that a 12 hour soak, effective filters on the jar, and 90 min @ 15 psi results in absolutely sterile grain. Everytime. If not, then you didn't do one of those three things right. That doesn't mean that 12 hours is as long as you need to soak, often your seed hasn't absorbed much moisture in 12 hrs, so 18, 24, even 36 hours may be desired. Just that 12 should hatch all endospores IME.


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.

Edited by mycofile (09/08/05 06:53 PM)

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Re: To simmer or to not simmer? *WBS* [Re: HippieChick]
    #4635181 -

HippieChick said:
I'd just as soon sterilize a bunch of jars, inoculate with LC and then case and fruit when colonized. So sick of some of my poo going green while colonizing.



How do you pasteurize your poo?  Is it broken up really well?  I had a problem with this on a few trays last spring...I used bagged manure though (which is actually decent in my area), and it wasn't broken up and I didn't break it up really nice and fine beforehand and I think some it didn't get colonized (the chunks) and then after the first flush was picked, some of these uncolonized areas got exposed to air and by then the pasteurization was of no help and it was just open season on my poo.  :sad: 

Anyway, just wondering.  Triple pasteurizing is another way to try it.  Dunno.


--------------------
OneMoreRobot3021 said:
the pub mods are a cancer on our society as a whole.
pantsboy said:
Do kittens contain mescaline?  Because they should.

My GF & ME :heart:

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Re: To simmer or to not simmer? *WBS* [Re: Bobo]
    #4635321 -

I do this to my poo,



Then I add a little verm and water, put it in a basket



then in a big pot on the stove and heat it up, 165-170 degrees for an hour



Lift the basket out and drain in the sink covered by the pot



Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony.
:heart: Hippie Chick  :mushroom2:


--------------------
Peace,Love and Happiness
:heart: HC :mushroom2:

Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose..............

I LUV My Greenhouse
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5545848#5545848

My First Pans
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6212058#6212058

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Re: To simmer or to not simmer? *WBS* [Re: HippieChick]
    #4635425 -

/goes to corner and waits for paw. 

Nevermind.  :lol: 
That's weird, though.  Maybe try hydrated lime in the pasteurization?  :shrug:


--------------------
OneMoreRobot3021 said:
the pub mods are a cancer on our society as a whole.
pantsboy said:
Do kittens contain mescaline?  Because they should.

My GF & ME :heart:

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Re: To simmer or to not simmer? *WBS* [Re: Bobo]
    #4635449 -

Why you waiting on me? I forgot to mail your cd`s again :crazy:


--------------------
So hard to be ....WDWGFH?
Texas is humongus compared to France
Our Gair, who art in Texas,
Paw Paw be thy Name....
My friends are thirsty


You never see a motorcycle parked outside a Psychiatrist office:biker:

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Re: To simmer or to not simmer? *WBS* [Re: OldSpice]
    #4635476 -

'Cause I ain't got shit to add to discussion, foo. 

I WANT MY CDs!!!!!

WDYWFM????

CDs!!!!!!  :wink:


--------------------
OneMoreRobot3021 said:
the pub mods are a cancer on our society as a whole.
pantsboy said:
Do kittens contain mescaline?  Because they should.

My GF & ME :heart:

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Re: To simmer or to not simmer? *WBS* [Re: OldSpice]
    #4635478 -

What kind of contams are you getting? If it's bacteria, go on a rampage to make sure you don't get any endospores in the grain.

Clean out your pots that you simmer with with bleach, and clean out your drainer as well. They could have some endospores from the last rinsing and simmering. Also, while im simmering, I let my jars soak in water so that they don't dry out and let the endospores develop.


--------------------
Kira: What do Klingons dream about?

Worf: Things that would send cold chills down your spine, and wake you up in the middle of the night. No, it is better you do not know

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Re: To simmer or to not simmer? *WBS* [Re: Bobo]
    #4635558 -

Ill set them by the door so i dont forget them
Ive got you everything from 1971 to their last one they recorded in 1984 ...couldnt find Animals so thats the only one thats missing


--------------------
So hard to be ....WDWGFH?
Texas is humongus compared to France
Our Gair, who art in Texas,
Paw Paw be thy Name....
My friends are thirsty


You never see a motorcycle parked outside a Psychiatrist office:biker:

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Re: To simmer or to not simmer? *WBS* [Re: OldSpice]
    #4635569 -

Lol.

24hour soak. Rinse a bunch then PC...Lol

So NOT complicated...:grin:

What makes it complicated is the Ifs Buts and Ors.....

Either way, Good luck with it, :cool2:

Tc

-Gnostic


--------------------
For the sake of those seeking knowledge.
I've provided some in my signature.
Double Tek Pictorial
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Soaking wbs - The Final Answer by Agar
50/50 Coco Coir versus 50/50 Peat Moss.

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Re: To simmer or to not simmer? *WBS* [Re: OldSpice]
    #4635615 -

Alounacara said:
Ill set them by the door so i dont forget them
Ive got you everything from 1971 to their last one they recorded in 1984 ...couldnt find Animals so thats the only one thats missing


Well, I suppose that's acceptable.  :wink:

Sweet, I canna wait!  :penis:


--------------------
OneMoreRobot3021 said:
the pub mods are a cancer on our society as a whole.
pantsboy said:
Do kittens contain mescaline?  Because they should.

My GF & ME :heart:

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Re: To simmer or to not simmer? *WBS* [Re: Bobo]
    #4635670 -

Well I know this is coming from a guy none of you know, so this input might be for nought but..........

When I started using WBS (about 4 months ago) I didn't simmer at all, and every jar I knocked up besides 2 (thats out of at least 30) didn't even start to show growth....
Then I started to simmer for 45 min (not even a boil, just 200* F) and now I'm getting 100% colonize rate... granted I'm losing one out of every 10 to contam so far, but at least they are colonizing...
I think it has something to do with the type of WBS, I'm using a kind that has no sunflower seeds, and is mostly millet...


btw, I think somebody was talking about the floyd in this thread, something about getting every CD but Animals (kinda drunk as fuck, srry).... well, Animals is the shit, 3rd best CD IMHO, so if you want that too, PM me and I'll hook it up.... can't have a floyd collection without Animals.....


--------------------
..... of course everything you just read was a lie... I just like taking the credit for other peoples masterful work...
Donate to the FSRCanada

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Re: To simmer or to not simmer? *WBS* [Re: budslide]
    #8424184 -

I soaked my WBS for 12 hours.....rinsed......strained

wondering if I should load the jars and have em ready for PC or if i should simmer


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Re: To simmer or to not simmer? *WBS* [Re: HippieChick]
    #8424271 -

In my experience,soaking wbs is enough...I tried simmering and didn't like it..The seeds were kinda mushy,and they split easily,makin it kinda messy...plus the WBS felt slimy and sticky no matter how good I risned it.And it took hours to drain in FRONT OF A FAN!!!Soakin WBS is better IMHO,as long as you pressure cook for atleast 75MINUTES,then youre good.I PC for 90Min...then inoculate in a still air GB...if you need help makin one..pm me!




















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Re: To simmer or to not simmer? *WBS* [Re: greystealth]
    #8424308 -

man this is an old thread.
but i do have something to add...

if you're tired of waiting for your wbs to dry after you've soaked it for 24hrs, throw some dry verm in there and mix it up. the grains still retain their water content, and the verm sucks up the excess water. i've never had a problem with this method and i've never had to wait for my wbs to dry.


--------------------
Do you dare to feel responsible for every dollar you lay down
are you going to make the rich man richer
or are you going to stand your ground
You say you want a revolution
a communal evolution
to be a part of the solution
maybe I'll be seeing you around.

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Re: To simmer or to not simmer? *WBS* [Re: fish42]
    #8424401 -

ive also had problems simmering wbs.
slimy gooey mess =/

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