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OfflineMikol
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Registered: 09/07/04
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Benefits of simmering wbs
    #3394845 - 11/21/04 11:29 PM (12 years, 22 days ago)

I currently have some wbs soaking overnight and I'll be pc'ing it tomorrow. I just can't decide on whether or not I want to go ahead and simmer the wbs before I load'em up for pc'ing.

What are the differences between just skipping the simmer process or actually simmering it?

I'd like to think it would produce better flushes because there would be more water in the grains. But I've read all sorts of things today about it, and i'm still undecided.

thanks for any comments


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Offlinefresh313
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Re: Benefits of simmering wbs [Re: Mikol]
    #3394939 - 11/21/04 11:48 PM (12 years, 22 days ago)

i dont even see the need in soaking, i just simmer for 45 mins or until they start to pop. the benefit that i can see is that the heated water softens the cell walls and increases the absorbtion of water inside the grain. more water inside b4 pc = more water after = better colonization. make sure you strain the grains well and give them some good gravity bounces to get all the excess water out.


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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Registered: 04/24/04
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Re: Benefits of simmering wbs [Re: Mikol]
    #3394968 - 11/21/04 11:55 PM (12 years, 22 days ago)

We soak 24 hours to allow the endospores to hatch

We simmer to get the maxium water in the grain for excellent fruiting.It's really only needed if you are going to case the grain or fruit as a cake.

But if you are using it for spawn then a simmer should not be done. As skipping the simmer leaves the grain whole and easy to break apart after full colinization.

This is Fucknuckle's input :grin: And the way he does it :thumbup:

You are very correct as to why a simmer is best.......Max water content :ooo:


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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Offlinefresh313
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Re: Benefits of simmering wbs [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3395055 - 11/22/04 12:12 AM (12 years, 22 days ago)

wouldnt pc'in kill the endospores even if they hadnt hatched?
ive never soaked and never had a contam.


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Invisibleagar
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Re: Benefits of simmering wbs [Re: Mikol]
    #3395065 - 11/22/04 12:15 AM (12 years, 22 days ago)

I beg to differ, slightly. Fact of the matter is this. When you soak WBS, it expands as it absorbs moisture. Once it has reached its maximum moisture capacity, it stops expanding & under the right temperature conditions - sprouts. As an example, fill a 5 gallon bucket 3/4 full of WBS & fill the bucket with water. Within 24 hours, the WBS will have usually have expanded to the point - the bucket is full of WBS & little or no water is visible.

Which equals a 20 to 25% expansion factor.

Once WBS has reached it?s natural maximum moisture capacity (in normal room temperatures), internal endospore?s germinate.

So - generally - a 12 to 24 hour soak works perfect. You can even soak WBS to the point you see a FEW individual grains sprout. Then, rinse, drain, jar up & PC quick.

4th or 5th flush (cannot remember - which)



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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Re: Benefits of simmering wbs [Re: agar]
    #3395101 - 11/22/04 12:26 AM (12 years, 22 days ago)

I can tell you that a simmer will put another 30% or so of water into the grain.

After soaking grains I also have no water in the pail. But I then add more water and simmer it to get soaked into the grains. The grains are twice as big from a soak only, very swollen after simmering.

I firmly know that a simmer really helps. Not absolutly needed( look at your pics) but it makes a difference in my experience.

A huge difference as far as casing straight grains.

I do this

Soak 24 hours
Simmer on med heat until grain splits
Drain very very well on towels
Load jars
PC

This debate will continue for ever

BUT PLEASE WILL SOMEONE TAKE MY WORD THIS TIME

I REALLY DID SERIUOS EXPERIMENTS AND HAVE PROVEN MYSELF CORRECT

What a cry baby  :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :grin:


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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Offlinedjred
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Registered: 08/27/04
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Re: Benefits of simmering wbs [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3395142 - 11/22/04 12:39 AM (12 years, 22 days ago)

ok im a firm believer of this dudes post on simmering...


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OfflineQavl
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Re: Benefits of simmering wbs [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3395160 - 11/22/04 12:43 AM (12 years, 22 days ago)

Here's what I do, it's a sort-of unorthodox tek but the grains come out beautiful:

Fill a pot halfway with WBS, then up to 3/4 full with water. Boil for half an hour. The grain will have expanded to 3/4 of the pot's capacity.

Drain, cover with water (maybe an inch or so, whatever your pot will allow). Add a few (3-5) drops of jet-dri. This gets all the nasty bird-kote off and helps to prevent clumping. Boil again for half an hour. Stir during both boils whenever you feel like it.

Drain extremely well, load your jars, and PC at 15 psi for 90 minutes.

Sometimes if I'm feeling particularly vindictive I'll let it cool for 24 hours, then re-pc for 90 mins.

The jet-dri doesn't interfere with colonization or fruiting at all. FungusMaximus posted this one in the nook archives a long time ago, don't know his name here... and IMHO, I think the boiling works better. Your mileage may vary. :smile:


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Offlinedoc34
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Re: Benefits of simmering wbs [Re: Qavl]
    #3395179 - 11/22/04 07:11 AM (12 years, 21 days ago)

We soak for 12-24 hours to allow for the endospores to germinate(Some endospores can/will survive the high temps of a PC)which in turn allows us to kill them easier when we Pc.

We simmer for 15-30 minutes(depending on where/what/etc,etc,)to force as much moisture into the wbs as we can get without exploding any kernels(grains).

This is how I do it VVVVV

Doc's Wild Bird Seed Tek

I hope this helps you some.


:cool: :thumbup:


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Invisibleagar
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Re: Benefits of simmering wbs [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3395190 - 11/22/04 07:25 AM (12 years, 21 days ago)

To each his own. But....... ponder this.

To each his own, IMHO. However, each grain, seed, or whatever of WBS has a natural capacity for moisture & lets call it 100%.. Anything beyond that is simply more than 100%. Which leaves you with a jar - that is OFTEN difficult to shake, because it is a bit soggy & grains sticks to the jar.. But, whatever works for you - does. Simple as that. You just have to do it & see????????.



124 gram EQ


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OfflineMikol
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Registered: 09/07/04
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Re: Benefits of simmering wbs [Re: agar]
    #3396273 - 11/23/04 01:09 AM (12 years, 21 days ago)

thanks for all of the reponses. I think I understand a bit more about this. Thanks


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OfflineFraggin
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Re: Benefits of simmering wbs [Re: agar]
    #5259031 - 02/03/06 02:13 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

agar said:
WBS has a natural capacity for moisture & lets call it 100%.. Anything beyond that is simply more than 100%. Which leaves you with a jar - that is OFTEN difficult to shake, because it is a bit soggy & grains sticks to the jar.

124 gram EQ




Yeppers.... I learned this the hard way. IF you soak and simmer, you end up with a WBS Cake. If you soak only, you get easily disperesed shakable grains.


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Offlinecoda
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Re: Benefits of simmering wbs [Re: Mikol]
    #5259048 - 02/03/06 02:18 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

This thread has been closed.

Reason:
this thread is TWO YEARS OLD. Please pay attention to thread dates before posting in them, ESPECIALLY if you click on a link in the related liknks section. Thanks!


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