Home | Community | Message Board
You are not signed in.
Sign In New Account
Forum Index Search Posts Trusted Vendors Highlights Galleries FAQ User List Chat Store Random Growery

Magic-Mushrooms-Shop.com
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 |  [ show all ]
Re: Something to Ponder [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4512001 -

a brain born receiving no stimuli, having no senses to develop perceptions of his surroundings , he would not have consciousness. Baby brains aren't really conscious anyways, depending on your definition of conscious.
His brain would only be filled with primitive instincts.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Something to Ponder [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4512029 -

Anything with full control over its body can feel resistance and most likely gravity too. But to the computer analogy, an empty hard drive can still have a format. If genetics gives any 'information' that would be similar to that then I think it would be considered conscious.


--------------------
Gaia, as you awaken, I heal myself. As I awaken, you are healed.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Something to Ponder [Re: Guerrilla0726]
    #4512037 -

Okay. If the baby were kept alive, fed and cared for, what do you think those primitive instincts without the 5 senses would or could evolve into experientially?

If not consciousness as we know it, what do you think about some form of spatial awareness with itself relative to objects?

If it still has the capacity to feel emotionally, could that serve as some form of stimuli to start creating neural pathways for some level of consciousness to function?

Would it experience the pull of gravity on it's body?


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Something to Ponder [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4512152 -

OWS- my understanding is that jiggy was asking about a proprioceptive brain-

regarding your question, i would argue that the brain has memory, simply by existing. and it is memory of nothing real; but by existing, it remembers. i would argue memory is implicit in mind.


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Something to Ponder [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4512195 -

They would be psychic babies, or dead.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Something to Ponder [Re: LittleBen]
    #4512214 -

Little ben, you just reminded me of a show I saw the other night on Savants.

There was this girl who was blind, and could sit down to a piano and play complex pieces by ear alone. She had no instruction what soever and couldn't see to read a music sheet.

The doctors involved with Savants said that these kids seem to be born with some genetic software already in place at birth.

That could really fuck with you if your were born without any of the 5 senses and had software in place.

I'm going to google that word now.....proprioceptive


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Something to Ponder [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4512278 -

pro?pri?o?cep?tor    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (prpr--sptr)
n.
A sensory receptor, found chiefly in muscles, tendons, joints, and the inner ear, that detects the motion or position of the body or a limb by responding to stimuli arising within the organism.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Proprioception (from Latin proprius, meaning "one's own") is the sense of the position of parts of the body, relative to other neighbouring parts of the body. Unlike the five exteroception human senses of sight, taste, smell, touch, and hearing, that advise us of the outside world, proprioception is a sense that provides feedback solely on the status of the body internally. It is the sense that indicates whether or not your body is moving with required effort as where the various parts of the body are located in relation to each other.

Kinesthesia is another term that is often used interchangeably with proprioception. Some users differentiate the kinesthetic sense from proprioception by excluding the sense of equilibrium or balance from kinesthesia. An inner ear infection, for example, might impact the sense of balance. This would impact the proprioceptive sense, but not the kinesthetic sense. The infected person would be able to walk, but only by using the person's sense of sight to maintain balance; the person would be unable to walk with his/her eyes closed.

Kinesthesia is a key component in muscle memory and hand-eye coordination, and training can improve this sense. The ability to effortlessly swing a golf club, or catch a baseball requires a finely tuned sense of the position of the joints, so that the eyes can concentrate on the ball and let the kinesthetic sense handle moving the body as needed to meet the ball.

hahahaha. It also came up on a new age spirituality oneness web site. Looks like someone already barked up my tree. They didn't offer much though. :tongue:

Looks like knowledge of it is mostly used for sports training.

It also appears to be a validated neuromuscular and inner ear extra sense.

Coooooooooool. Thanks for teaching me this new word crunchy! This IS the info I was after and didn't know it. I love how this shit works. Seek and you shall find. :kiss: :thumbup:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Something to Ponder [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4512320 -

So.. is this thread some kind of reference the super intelligent psychic indigo hybrid children that are being born everywhere? :smirk:


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Something to Ponder [Re: Shroomism]
    #4512349 -

What? :confused:

How did you jump from this to that?

I don't see the connection.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Something to Ponder [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4512392 -

gettinjiggywithit said:
A baby is born with a freak disorder. It has no touch nerve, smell, sight, sound or taste sense perception.

It still would be able to feel emotions, have full control over it's muscles and have full brain function.


What does it have to live with? Can it have any quality of life?

How do you think it would come to understand where it found itself or what itself was?


I didn't read past the first post...but....
what do you mean by no touch nerve? There are 5 senses to touch....pressure, pain, pleasure, hot, and cold. Is the baby able to sense anything at all? how could it hold anything or have full control of its muscels if it couldn't even sense pressure?

Edited by MJF (08/08/05 10:17 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Something to Ponder [Re: MJF]
    #4512405 -

Thanks for that. I included pain pleasure, hot cold, but wasn't sure about pressure. Now i know that goes with it.

If you look up this page, the convo moved into something called proprioception.

The baby would have that.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Something to Ponder [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4512463 -

pro?pri?o?cep?tion
n.
The unconscious perception of movement and spatial orientation arising from stimuli within the body itself.

I don't understand this word.....how can you have perception of something outside yourself with only stimuli coming from within the body. So if you were flying at how ever fast...in a complete vacum you would be able to tell you were moving (if you had no visual stimuli either)?
It seems to me...that pressure is what would give the baby the sense of where it's at.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Something to Ponder [Re: MJF]
    #4512582 -

I also posted what wiki pedia had to say on it.  It's on page 3. It's something new to me as of a few hours ago.

Perhaps, at least the sense of touch related to pressure is required for any form of proprioception to be experienced. I'm not sure about that yet.

I had them separate in my mind because when I have been under local anesthetic, I don't feel pain or anything, but do feel the pressure of pulling and pushing.

I had a C section and was numbed from the neck down. You could touch me on the skin and I wouldn't know it. You could've set a torch under my foot and I would not have known it, but I felt a lot of uncomfortable pushing and pulling pressure when they took her out.

Same with wisdom tooth extraction.

Why would anesthesia numb my pain, pleasure,hot and cold touch sensory perceptors and NOT my pressure ones?

I'm going to google this. Before I can go further.  :lol:

I actually started too and found this fucked up warped article on experiments done to see if new borns experience pain or not.

It made me sick to find out that within the last 20 years, docs were doing open heart like surgery on babies with no anesthetic. Instead these barbaric bastards paralyzed their muscles to keep them still through the surgery so they couldn't squirm fight or scream.

What a living nightmare to endure.

Most of them ended up dying and they think its was due to post traumatic stress because they felt pain. It sounds like this practice and stupid belief may have stopped. Sounds like some docs still practice it. researchers are proving babies do experience pain even in the womb.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

Edited by gettinjiggywithit (08/08/05 11:08 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Something to Ponder [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4512620 -

that makes me want to puke.
i would expect that they can feel pain in the womb...but are they cognizant of it?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Something to Ponder [Re: MJF]
    #4512644 -

I can post the link. One of the researches said that once children can verbally communicate memories, they have recalled painful incedents after birth.

Anyone ant the link to the article? It covers a lot about circumcision too. Awful stuff!

I'll post what I find in the pressure nerve receptor when I do. Got caught up on the phone.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Something to Ponder [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4512794 -

http://www.apa.org/monitor/jun98/touch.html

Too funny. This link gives some interesting info. Here I am wondering what its like not to have the 5 physical senses in play but just the 6th one of propriocipia and I find this on a few guys who have all 5 senses but not propriocipria.

They call it a sense most of us don't even know we have. I didn't until now. It was referred to as a sixth sense and now they are working it in with the touch sense.

This may be of interest to people interested in AI developments.

I also found out that an infant will die without the sense of touch including the proprioceptive one but can can survive without any of the others.

So, my pondering has been halted by learning that physical life without touch sense doesn't survive past infancy.

Thanks for pondering with me everyone. Other neat stuff came out of this for me. Still glad I posted this.

I do so love and appreciate S&Pers! You guys rock!

:heart:  :hairmetal:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Something to Ponder [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4512857 -

I make crazy connections... apparently.. everything is connected.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Something to Ponder [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4512866 -

and so do you!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Something to Ponder [Re: MJF]
    #4513698 -

Quote:
Would it experience the pull of gravity on it's body?


Maybe I'm being too literal or I'm not understanding what you said in the right way, but right now I wouldn't say I'm consciously experiencing the pull of gravity. I'm just used to it and I've lived with it my entire life. The new brain would already be accustomed to it, it wouldn't really notice it.

Quote:
primitive instincts without the 5 senses would or could evolve into experientially?


The primitive instincts would not evolve into anything. The baby would remain helpless and would have to identify with something as its mother for a source of survival. The brain would have a hard time coping with the instinctual demands.

Freud claims that the ego is developed to help the infant deal with the demands of its id and with the restrictions/dangers of its environment. According to this wouldn't the brain without senses develop an ego extremely fast since reality would seem so much more harsher? therefore develop a consciousness?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Something to Ponder [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4513704 -

I've been pushing the idea that consciousness is something that recieves sensations, but perhapse I was wrong, perhapse consciousness exist only where there is a sensation, and no stimuli is equal to death

Have you ever taken Ketamine or another dissociative anesthetic?

They do precisely that: cut your "consciousness" off from all external sensation. You still experience things for the entire duration, even when you appear externally unconscious.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 |  [ show all ]

Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Questions to ponder and answer if you feel inspired to gettinjiggywithit 893 11 11/25/04 12:33 PM
by MarkostheGnostic
* What would you do if you woke up one morning and could no longer masturbate to your usual stimulus? AlphaFalfa 732 8 05/09/10 11:15 PM
by AlphaFalfa
* Pondering the afterlife Envix 927 10 09/30/10 06:54 AM
by Envix
* A neat quote to ponder gettinjiggywithit 1,990 18 11/13/04 06:32 AM
by Borealis
* Explaining Karma (random ponderings)
( 1 2 all )		 StickyWater 3,420 34 07/03/07 12:51 PM
by Apollyphelion
* Start dealing with anxiety provoking stimuli
( 1 2 all )		 Cognitive_Shift 2,203 31 11/11/09 04:19 AM
by Ahimsa
* Where to go once you have pondered the world? MrBuzin 2,008 13 12/23/06 03:47 PM
by Quoiyaien
* Something to ponder
( 1 2 3 all )		 AngryPhil 2,661 43 03/08/10 10:06 AM
by Icelander

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
2,582 topic views. 1 members, 5 guests and 28 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2026 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.031 seconds spending 0.005 seconds on 16 queries.