Home | Community | Message Board

NorthSpore.com BOOMR Bag!
Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder, Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2  [ show all ]
InvisibleStickyWater
Stranger
Registered: 06/09/05
Posts: 1,680
Re: Explaining Karma (random ponderings) [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7117741 - 07/02/07 04:32 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)



Edited by StickyWater (04/29/08 03:30 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: Explaining Karma (random ponderings) [Re: StickyWater]
    #7117743 - 07/02/07 04:34 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

StickyWater said:
I actually brought that up before he did because I wanted him to have an argument to give rather than just saying I was wrong....




He didn't "just" say you were "wrong". He proposed alternate viewpoints to specific ideas that you proposed for discussion. You, instead of choosing to respond to these viewpoints on an ideaological level, have simply decided to discuss his personal nature, which, of course, is not the purpose and intention of this forum.

Quote:


and he replied to me by saying that I was just parroting mystical BS.




Did he? I have a feeling you weren't reading that closely, because he actually asked you a question.

Quote:


OrgoneConclusion said:
Have you ACTUALLY studied the Laws of Thermodynamics or are just spouting some mystical BS you read somewhere?




Quote:


All I ask for is a little respect when taking the time to share an idea with the community.




This is a debate-orientated forum. Your perception of not receiving enough respect is simply debate as usual. The rules of this forum specifically prohibit flaming and personalisms. If you are emotionally dissatisfied with how others choose to debate your ideas, then perhaps you should consider other forums in which to post them. :shrug:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleStickyWater
Stranger
Registered: 06/09/05
Posts: 1,680
Re: Explaining Karma (random ponderings) [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7117755 - 07/02/07 04:40 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)



Edited by StickyWater (04/29/08 03:30 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,399
Loc: Under the C
Re: Explaining Karma (random ponderings) [Re: StickyWater]
    #7117767 - 07/02/07 04:43 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I believe most debaters here realize that the word 'karma' is in the dictionary and has a definition. The question is not whether or not the word exists, but whether or not the concept behind it has any basis or makes any rational sense at all.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleStickyWater
Stranger
Registered: 06/09/05
Posts: 1,680
Re: Explaining Karma (random ponderings) [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7117852 - 07/02/07 05:15 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)



Edited by StickyWater (04/29/08 03:29 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 30,333
Re: Explaining Karma (random ponderings) [Re: StickyWater]
    #7117997 - 07/02/07 07:11 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

the moral aspects of good and bad, or positive and negative, are not energies per se, if they were then the idea of physics might come closer.

we can say everything is energy and make everything into a kind of physics. but it would not be accurate to just jam everything in that bag.

the moral attributes of positive and negative are essentially associative, or tagged or tags (to make them more material for discussion's sake - but don't think physics).

the whole moral layer of karma works because our minds are associative. It acts miraculously to trigger self reward and punishment, damping or extending the feelings of pleasure and damping or extending feelings of pain.

sensory and memory experiences have body sensation that can start pleasure or pain feelings. Karma is the moral pump that reinforces the feelings according to the disposition of the person, i.e. which roots they have permitted to take hold.

except for abhidhamma's description of karma, which I have just simplified, all other discussions of karma are babytalk and nonsense, which has been used by masters for aeons to motivate the lower castes, in the same way that christian leaders have used heaven and hell to influence the behavior of the masses, and to make them fight in wars.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleStickyWater
Stranger
Registered: 06/09/05
Posts: 1,680
Re: Explaining Karma (random ponderings) [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7118194 - 07/02/07 10:13 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)



Edited by StickyWater (04/29/08 03:29 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Invisibledaytripper23
?
Male


Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
Loc: Flag
Re: Explaining Karma (random ponderings) [Re: StickyWater]
    #7118320 - 07/02/07 11:13 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

So nobody enjoyed my ramblings?:sad:


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlineshakercee
Atheistic Mystic
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/08/07
Posts: 606
Loc: Here and there
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: Explaining Karma (random ponderings) [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7118386 - 07/02/07 11:41 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

This is a gem i read in a book about Karma (AGHORA III: The Law of Karma - Robert Svoboda)

If you donate one of your family member's eyes to a blind person, and that person then goes on to rape a woman, not only does he gets bad karma, you would also be getting bad karma, because you made it possible for him to get sight.

If this were true, then nobody would come forward to help others. It is just plain ridiculous.


--------------------
Pray, v.: To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy - Ambrose Bierce

Medical science has confirmed what the male world has known intuitively for millenia: that scratching your ass is a great aid to complex thinking.

Its God's responsibility to forgive the terrorist organizations such as Jaish, Lashkar etc.
Its our responsibility to arrange the meeting between them and god."
- Indian Armed Forces

"Hey Monkey!! Get Funky" - Tarzan and Jane


Edited by shakercee (07/02/07 11:43 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,399
Loc: Under the C
Re: Explaining Karma (random ponderings) [Re: shakercee]
    #7118760 - 07/02/07 01:17 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

If I understand your POV, one might as well join in the rape...


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 30,333
Re: Explaining Karma (random ponderings) [Re: StickyWater]
    #7118817 - 07/02/07 01:27 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

StickyWater said:
But could you not argue that the reason their mind will allow them to take certain moral routes as opposed to others is caused by the construct and chemistry within the brain? If the structure and chemistry isn't there to allow a reaction, then it wont occur. I guess it starts boiling down to a question of 'free will' almost at this point. And if the reason our minds associate the way that they do is due to the physical and chemical makeup of our minds? And with this said, is it that far of a jump to consider morality as well to be determined by the chemical and physical structure of the brain (keeping in mind that the brain is constantly changing). I agree that morality does not take a manifested form of energy or anything, but that morality is determined in a person by the chemistry and physical workings of their mind. Basically, if you knew everything about the human brain there was to know, and everything about science, then if you could take a photograph of a person in an environment through a camera that could capture the velocity of electrons and atoms, then you could determine what they were thinking about at that moment which made them perform the action leading to the following event, as well as all the science at play within their bodies and the environment around them to make this work. If you continued expanding this picture over a larger environment with more objects, then theoretically you could apply the same logic on a significantly larger scale with far more subjects monitored, and you could perhaps predict the actions of a town's population through the day to a certain margin of error (since that still wouldn't be a universal measurement of this) by running a computer simulation programmed with all the laws that govern atomic reactions, and inputting an atomic picture of an event and subject, the computer would be able to show a logical cause and effect reaction between absolutely everything around the subject influencing everything at once. From our thoughts of being hungry in the morning to getting run down by a car on your way to get breakfast.

Of course that's far too small of an example to actually be able to express in this matter without perhaps an image of the entire country, but there's no point in arguing the technical accuracies of something impossible at this point.




I would say that you oversimplify and attribute to "chemistry" what is much more complex.
the brain structure and living behavior of finding common motifs and using them to bind in new memories is a complex systemic thing that is "influenced" by chemicals in the soup, but not controlled by them except when dosage or etiology is extreme.

the normal operation of brain could be called baseline activity.
the chemicals you are thinking about modulate baseline, (by increasing or decreasing localized signal vibrance) but these chemicals are not the living process of motif abstraction and associative memory management. they are just like filters or stimulants to the ongoing baseline ativity.

moral conditioning or association is like the internalization of all social interaction in a person's life. it is a thing worthy of psychological attention and study.

the stories of human life are hugely important, and life is so short.

and yes, daytripper1, I liked your analysis of the funny energy theory and your abstractions into ethics which are more intellectual than the knee jerk karma/guilt complex


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleStickyWater
Stranger
Registered: 06/09/05
Posts: 1,680
Re: Explaining Karma (random ponderings) [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7122050 - 07/03/07 01:03 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)



Edited by StickyWater (04/29/08 03:28 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 30,333
Re: Explaining Karma (random ponderings) [Re: StickyWater]
    #7122471 - 07/03/07 02:13 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

the shape of the brain is a pretty constant thing
morphologically the changes due to learning are like thickennings of some branches
within a hugly dense neuron forest, forming very subtle localised energy potentiations,
facilitating re-excitation should a simmilar motif appear.
(this is conditioning, habit formation, memory formation)

any chemical effects are gross modulators, i.e. non specific to signal content (motif),
more related to system state.(i.e. more or less resonant, more or less euphoric)

maybe you missed nothing


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlineshakercee
Atheistic Mystic
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/08/07
Posts: 606
Loc: Here and there
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: Explaining Karma (random ponderings) [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7123565 - 07/03/07 12:18 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

:yesnod: that idea was never mentioned in the book :lol:


--------------------
Pray, v.: To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy - Ambrose Bierce

Medical science has confirmed what the male world has known intuitively for millenia: that scratching your ass is a great aid to complex thinking.

Its God's responsibility to forgive the terrorist organizations such as Jaish, Lashkar etc.
Its our responsibility to arrange the meeting between them and god."
- Indian Armed Forces

"Hey Monkey!! Get Funky" - Tarzan and Jane


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleApollyphelion
Dungeon Master/Princess(1009)
Female User Gallery

Registered: 03/15/07
Posts: 16,757
Loc: Festival of Deaths
Re: Explaining Karma (random ponderings) [Re: shakercee]
    #7124209 - 07/03/07 02:51 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Karma to me is when all of yourself and what you mean to yourself is exposed in the moment you cannot excape. Karma is a few degrees off from coincidences and synchronicities. It is a braintrick, or mindtool and has its purposes just like many of the mysterious chemical and electrical reactions are brain pulls off every nanosecond.


--------------------

"I'm looking at you looking at it"

SUBSCRIBE TO MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL PLEASE! www.youtube.com/apollyphelion



Creator of the World's Worst Comic Book


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2  [ show all ]

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder, Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Karma comes around, does it?
( 1 2 all )
geokillsA 2,895 27 03/22/02 03:03 PM
by geokills
* Karma Captain Loafy McPoopdick 1,019 15 12/17/04 02:42 AM
by Anonymous
* the nature of karma and its ties to liberty. nakors_junk_bag 863 13 12/15/05 03:19 AM
by redgreenvines
* bad karma good karma
( 1 2 all )
kaiowas 1,668 36 08/19/05 08:28 AM
by redgreenvines
* Time travellers we are- random thoughts
( 1 2 all )
gettinjiggywithit 2,708 29 02/22/08 11:39 AM
by krin
* Why I don't believe in Karma.
( 1 2 all )
kaleras 2,107 35 02/27/05 07:08 AM
by Sinbad
* I wrote a philosophy that explains the entire universe(and more) Hawkeye2 1,123 14 08/29/05 07:24 AM
by redgreenvines
* Karma = objective morality
( 1 2 all )
deafpanda 4,244 30 01/12/05 02:46 AM
by fresh313

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, Jokeshopbeard, DividedQuantum
3,125 topic views. 0 members, 0 guests and 6 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Print Topic | ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2021 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.03 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 16 queries.