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OfflineProsgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
Judge gives would-be millennium bomber 22 Years -- and Bush administration a lecture...
    #4464533 - 07/28/05 02:45 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Read the entire story here.

Judge Gets in Swipe at Bush Administration
Jul 28, 9:40 AM (ET)
By GENE JOHNSON


Quote:

The sentence itself was fairly straightforward: An Algerian man received 22 years for plotting to bomb the Los Angeles airport on the eve of the millennium. It was what the judge said in imposing the term that raised eyebrows.

U.S. District Judge John C. Coughenour said the successful prosecution of Ahmed Ressam should serve not only as a warning to terrorists, but as a statement to the Bush administration about its terrorism-fighting tactics.

"We did not need to use a secret military tribunal, detain the defendant indefinitely as an enemy combatant or deny the defendant the right to counsel," he said Wednesday. "The message to the world from today's sentencing is that our courts have not abandoned our commitment to the ideals that set our nation apart."

He added that the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks have made Americans realize they are vulnerable to terrorism and that some believe "this threat renders our Constitution obsolete ... If that view is allowed to prevail, the terrorists will have won."



Quote:

U.S. Attorney John McKay said he agreed with the judge's comments that U.S. courts are equipped to handle terrorism cases. He would not comment on the judge's criticism of military tribunals and the handling of enemy combatants



Thank you Judge John C. Coughenour for stating obvious truths that evade so many others blinded by slavish nationalism and a naive trust in power grabbing politicians.


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
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Registered: 10/08/02
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Re: Judge gives would-be millennium bomber 22 Years -- and Bush administration a lecture... [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4464540 - 07/28/05 02:48 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

:thumbup:

Wow, U.S. District Judge John C. Coughenour is my new hero.


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InvisibleRavus
Not an EggshellWalker
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Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
Re: Judge gives would-be millennium bomber 22 Years -- and Bush administration a lecture... [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4464545 - 07/28/05 02:50 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I agree with the comment, though that guy should've gotten life in prison. If Alabama can give people 99 years for marijuana, why does a would-be terrorist and bomber receive 22 years?


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
Re: Judge gives would-be millennium bomber 22 Years -- and Bush administration a lecture... [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4464549 - 07/28/05 02:51 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Dear Judge, you're an idiot.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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OfflineProsgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
Re: Judge gives would-be millennium bomber 22 Years -- and Bush administration a lecture... [Re: Ravus]
    #4464572 - 07/28/05 02:59 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:
If Alabama can give people 99 years for marijuana, why does a would-be terrorist and bomber receive 22 years?



There is a definite perversion of priorities affecting the entire country's legal system(s).


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
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Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
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Re: Judge gives would-be millennium bomber 22 Years -- and Bush administration a lecture... [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4464734 - 07/28/05 03:44 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

name calling? nice.

care to comment on the merits of his statement?

too bad we're not getting the same sort of convictions
out of gitmo.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
Re: Judge gives would-be millennium bomber 22 Years -- and Bush administration a lecture... [Re: afoaf]
    #4464972 - 07/28/05 04:39 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

the guy is an idiot. and it pissed me off when i heard the light sentence along with his editorial.


he said:

"We did not need to use a secret military tribunal, detain the defendant indefinitely as an enemy combatant or deny the defendant the right to counsel,"

The idiot wants to make military policy????or get a gig a the new york times???

I am not a lawyer but the terrorist was not fighting American troops.(Iraq / Afghanistan) = military jurisdiction...

He was caught committing, or trying to commit, a criminal act at the border.


and why in the fuck did it take 5-1/2 years to get this guy to trial, convict, and then sentence him??

also giving him 5 years served, and he has the possibility of three years reduced for good behavior.

piece of shit will live to kill another day.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Offlinedrtyfrnk
PresidentialCandidate 2008
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 2,961
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
Re: Judge gives would-be millennium bomber 22 Years -- and Bush administration a lecture... [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4465000 - 07/28/05 04:53 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Lonestar, nice avatar btw :laugh:


--------------------
It's Krang, Bitch!  :krang:


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Judge gives would-be millennium bomber 22 Years -- and Bush administration a lecture... [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4465003 - 07/28/05 04:54 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I'm sure you're familiar with the fact that many of the prisoners in Gitmo are not soldiers? Why should they be held in a US military prison if they are only being susptect of terrorism overseas? Shouldn't they be tried by Iraqi courts?


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Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/25/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
Re: Judge gives would-be millennium bomber 22 Years -- and Bush administration a lecture... [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4465005 - 07/28/05 04:55 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

obviously he shouldn't be listened to because he's a terrorist lover.

*huge roll eyes icon*

I doubt this common sense will ever reach the masses, what with FOX News just a few minutes ago endorsing an Orweillan thought police-esque command center for mass transit stations.

"blah blah what we need to do is be better than london blah blah set up a command center with live monitoring so that when something bad happens, we can find out who did it."

seriously, that's what he said, and he said it like it was fact that everyone already agrees with. I can't wait till they are in our homes!


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Judge gives would-be millennium bomber 22 Years -- and Bush administration a lecture... [Re: leery11]
    #4465011 - 07/28/05 04:58 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Most people do not watch Fox News, though. It is a cable station, and most people who watch it are far right already. Much of what they say is just preaching to the choir.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 6 months, 16 hours
Re: Judge gives would-be millennium bomber 22 Years -- and Bush administration a lecture... [Re: afoaf]
    #4465059 - 07/28/05 05:12 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
name calling? nice.

care to comment on the merits of his statement?

too bad we're not getting the same sort of convictions
out of gitmo.




I'll comment on the merits of his statement. They were asinine and self serving. There is a reason why standard burdens of proof should not exist for spies and that is that it is impossible to gather evidence. Anyone fighting on a field of battle out of uniform should be shot on sight. Unless they can possibly afford useful intelligence. Once they do they should then be shot. I don't give a shit about convictions out of Gitmo, I want information. These slime have forfeited their right to due process. Clinton treating this like a legal issue as opposed to a war issue is what left Bin Laden alive.


--------------------


Edited by zappaisgod (07/28/05 05:14 PM)


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OfflineProsgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
Re: Judge gives would-be millennium bomber 22 Years -- and Bush administration a lecture... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4465217 - 07/28/05 05:56 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Nice blathering, and a sorry demonstration of mental atrophy. How do you know if someone is deserving of forfeiting their rights if you are cannot show they are guilty? In case you didn't notice, the accused was found guilty, DUH! There are reasons the founders of our country set up the government they way they did. Though shallow thinking numbskulls are stupid enough to think that we must sacrifice our liberties and due process in an unending war in order to 'preserve our way of life' (!?), those of us above the intellect of chimps understand that it is logically impossible and will only lead to despotism.


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/25/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
Re: Judge gives would-be millennium bomber 22 Years -- and Bush administration a lecture... [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4465492 - 07/28/05 07:15 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Most people do not watch Fox News, though. It is a cable station, and most people who watch it are far right already. Much of what they say is just preaching to the choir.



Total day: FNC: 1,037,000 / CNN: 450,000 / HLN: 209,000 / MSNBC: 194,000 / CNBC: 144,000

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1441978/posts
(unless they're making this up)

Fox News is becoming more popular than CNN.... It's evident in how they try to dumb down news into entertainment. The "G factor" or whatever that bullshit used to be? All these factors with entertaining CHILDISH arguments complete with name calling and the inability to listen to opinions.

It's becoming the soap opera of news.... not that the other networks are doing a good job or anything, but anyway..

Is it a "far-right" station? Well perhaps, perhaps not, but if so, where is OUR VOICE [or the voice of anyone left of moderate]? It's hidden in the internet and on public tv which almost no one watches..... I don't have access to Democracy Now! for example, on any medium at all other than the net... no radio, no tv, nothing.

There needs to actually be a balance.... and the mainstream needs access to it... why isn't a highly liberal news station being crafted and put onto air to everyone with cable, and given the self appointed legitimacy that FNC has. "Fair and balanced". "You decide." if liberal news stations were approached that way people would go crazy and call BS.

(IMO of course)

I mean, do people even in liberal states feel like they are living in a conservatives wet-dream? It seems like it's everywhere. It's hip to put on those political stickers which you haven't thought about, afterall. (not saying we shouldn't support our troops, but the only thing worse than not supporting them is giving them blind praise via idolitry)


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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OfflineRoseM
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Registered: 09/24/03
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Re: Judge gives would-be millennium bomber 22 Years -- and Bush administration a lecture... [Re: leery11]
    #4465498 - 07/28/05 07:19 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

The Daily Show gets very similar ratings to FNC.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Judge gives would-be millennium bomber 22 Years -- and Bush administration a lecture... [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4465513 - 07/28/05 07:25 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Prosgeopax said:
Nice blathering, and a sorry demonstration of mental atrophy. How do you know if someone is deserving of forfeiting their rights if you are cannot show they are guilty? In case you didn't notice, the accused was found guilty, DUH! There are reasons the founders of our country set up the government they way they did. Though shallow thinking numbskulls are stupid enough to think that we must sacrifice our liberties and due process in an unending war in order to 'preserve our way of life' (!?), those of us above the intellect of chimps understand that it is logically impossible and will only lead to despotism.




Please elucidate for me just who is at Gitmo and how they got there? The Founders of our government????They had far less tolerance for these people than the Geneva Convention allows and they aren't even eligible for those protections. Unending???? What, are you 11 years old? No wonder there are so many cuts on MTV. You can't attend for more than .3 seconds.


--------------------


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OfflineVex
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Registered: 05/04/05
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Re: Judge gives would-be millennium bomber 22 Years -- and Bush administration a lecture... [Re: leery11]
    #4465518 - 07/28/05 07:27 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

the numbers are like that because right leaning people think all news channels besides fox are biased. People usually like to watch people that share their view rip into a person from the other side so they can agree and nod their head and feel like they're right...Anyways, half he country is right leaning, and according to right wingers all channels besides fox are biased. So they have one channel to watch whereas, according to right wingers, we have 3. \\

The Fox people are really quite brilliant actually, they went way right with everything when they realized how many out there were complaining about how biased the news was. I'm sure they encourage their pundits to act outrageously biased because it's exactly what half the country wants to see, because they identify with it. I guarantee you that if a news network that was left leaning appeared that was as biased as fox news then it would get a similar reaction. Because people are so polarized in this country when it comes to politics. Fox news is exploiting it.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Judge gives would-be millennium bomber 22 Years -- and Bush administration a lecture... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4465520 - 07/28/05 07:27 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

So, if the Constitutional courts work... why do we need SECRET MILITARY TRIBUNALS?


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Judge gives would-be millennium bomber 22 Years -- and Bush administration a lecture... [Re: Rose]
    #4465549 - 07/28/05 07:37 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

The current rules of evidence are absurd


--------------------


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Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/25/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
Re: Judge gives would-be millennium bomber 22 Years -- and Bush administration a lecture... [Re: Vex]
    #4465553 - 07/28/05 07:38 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
The Daily Show gets very similar ratings to FNC.



It's not like they're a legitimate news station though.
Quote:

Vex said:
the numbers are like that because right leaning people think all news channels besides fox are biased. People usually like to watch people that share their view rip into a person from the other side so they can agree and nod their head and feel like they're right...Anyways, half he country is right leaning, and according to right wingers all channels besides fox are biased. So they have one channel to watch whereas, according to right wingers, we have 3. \\

The Fox people are really quite brilliant actually, they went way right with everything when they realized how many out there were complaining about how biased the news was. I'm sure they encourage their pundits to act outrageously biased because it's exactly what half the country wants to see, because they identify with it. I guarantee you that if a news network that was left leaning appeared that was as biased as fox news then it would get a similar reaction. Because people are so polarized in this country when it comes to politics. Fox news is exploiting it.




Yes indeed it would..... but the thing here is, the left doesn't really have a voice in the mainstreamed news organization. The righ-winged cable lovers think we do.... but I can't say I feel represented by ABC/CBS, etc.... not very much so at least. I'd call them moderate with occasional tendencies to delve slightly left/right.... if you watch Farenheit (not that I am a Moore fan) it even shows Dan Rather angrily supporting the war in Iraq "If my country is at war then I'm going to support it", I believe... yet he's demonized by the right wing as liberal?


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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