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Invisibleniteowl
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Dogma
    #4375344 - 07/06/05 12:49 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Some people get offended when you tell them they are being Dogmatic.
Almost everyone uses dogma in their life. Any form of ritual can be considered dogmatic.
It you brush your teeth, the same way, everyday. You could say that your brushing your teeth "religiously".

Meditation is the same way.

You can take a very dogmatic aproach like this
...or you can learn the basics, and make your OWN meditation dogma.

Dogma isnt a bad thing.

Pushing YOUR dogma as the best/only way....
....is a bad thing.


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Don't be bogged down by your past
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Offlinedrtyfrnk
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Re: Dogma [Re: niteowl]
    #4375426 - 07/06/05 01:14 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

or if you watch dogma, you are dogmatic :P


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Dogma [Re: drtyfrnk]
    #4375463 - 07/06/05 01:24 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I think the dogma is the unquestioned part of some teaching.

after internalizing anything to the point of understanding, and making it part of one's life, all of it ceases to be dogmatic.

if foisted upon another's life without approval or without even digesting it, it returns to just a bunch of partly understood rules - i.e. back to dogma. (yappy and out of place)

I guess while learning anything, you have to put your leash on the dogma and let it pull you around the block once or twice.

If a dogma remains unquestioned or unquestionable for too long it turns to dog food.


Edited by redgreenvines (07/06/05 01:26 PM)


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Dogma [Re: niteowl]
    #4375514 - 07/06/05 01:36 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Ritual =! dogma.


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Dogma [Re: Silversoul]
    #4375689 - 07/06/05 02:34 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Ritual =! dogma.

Right.

There is nothing wrong with dogma.
Everyone has some dogma/ritual that they follow.

The problem arises, when one person tries to impose their dogma on someone else.


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Dogma [Re: niteowl]
    #4375691 - 07/06/05 02:35 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

...or tries to say that your dogma is somehow wrong/flawed.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Dogma [Re: niteowl]
    #4375757 - 07/06/05 02:55 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

lol


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: Dogma [Re: Gomp]
    #4375897 - 07/06/05 03:43 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

dogma
amgod

MAIA


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Re: Dogma [Re: niteowl]
    #4375903 - 07/06/05 03:46 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

or you can teach your dog(ma) to play tricks


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Dogma [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4375936 - 07/06/05 03:58 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

ritual is not dogma
ritual is just some routine - a practiced sequence.
a person can perform a ritual without referring to dogma

dogma is the pitch, the pronouncement, the decree, the law

yeuchh...

when you say this is my dogma, and you point at your ritual, you are making a kind of joke about there being no dog.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Dogma [Re: niteowl]
    #4375983 - 07/06/05 04:11 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

A ritual with a known practical purpose is not dogma.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Dogma [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4375998 - 07/06/05 04:16 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

"When dogma enters the brain, all intellectual activity ceases"


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Dogma [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4376110 - 07/06/05 04:49 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

dogma

2. An authoritative principle, belief, or statement of ideas or opinion, especially one considered to be absolutely true.

This is the definition im refering to.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Dogma [Re: niteowl]
    #4376234 - 07/06/05 05:20 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Then brushing one's teeth is not dogma. It is not opinion or belief, but scientific fact that it prevents tooth decay, hence it has practical purpose. Dogma by this definition has no practical purpose as it is opinion or belief.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Dogma [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4376351 - 07/06/05 05:42 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

So if something is of vital importance to practical application, is that then still considered dogma?

For instance, in Vajrayana Buddhism, the essential points are

1.Initiation into Practice
2.Application of Practice
3.Integration

If initiation is considered to be of vital importance before practical application, just as an instructor is considered vital before piloting an aeroplane, is this still dogmatic. Is the belief that one must have personal instruction before flying a plane just dogma?


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Dogma [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4376391 - 07/06/05 05:53 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
Then brushing one's teeth is not dogma. It is not opinion or belief, but scientific fact that it prevents tooth decay, hence it has practical purpose. Dogma by this definition has no practical purpose as it is opinion or belief.




The method used to brush ones teeth is the dogma.
Not the fact that it is beneficial.

"You have us use this brush, brush from the top down, in circles, rinse, repeat, gargle with listerine"

Any method of regular teeth brushing will be beneficial.

Just like meditation.

Meditation is beneficial.
Saying that one method of meditation is better than another is being dogmatic in your views.


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Dogma [Re: Sinbad]
    #4376412 - 07/06/05 06:01 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Is the belief that one must have personal instruction before flying a plane just dogma?

You don't have to have an instructor to learn to fly.(it may be safer, but not needed)
Who taught the Wright Brothers how to fly?

There are many ways to fly.

Saying that one way is better than another is a dogmatic view of flying.

If you say...Flying in a balloon isn't truly flying.....your not truly flying unless your in a hang-glider.

This is a dogmatic view on flying. (my way is better than your way)


Edited by niteowl (07/06/05 06:03 PM)


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Dogma [Re: niteowl]
    #4376451 - 07/06/05 06:08 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Agreed. Would you not agree that its not only safer, but much more wise and intelligent to get instruction before flying a plane. Only somebody with balls of steel and a head full of sawdust would attempt to fly without instruction. And so i could easily say to such a person "My way is much better (and safer) than your way", becuase its so obviously true. What vehicle one is using, maybe faster, or slower, but whether its better or worse is purely subjective.

The Wright brother's built there plane, and so knew exactly how to fly it.


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Edited by Sinbad (07/06/05 06:15 PM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Dogma [Re: niteowl]
    #4376480 - 07/06/05 06:13 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

niteowl;

how did ritual get mixed up with dogma in this thread
it seems everyone is going all over the place trying to make them one thing.

anything you repeat can be a ritual whether you are reverent or not about it.

dogma is something else, possibly a troubling thing too.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Dogma [Re: niteowl]
    #4376484 - 07/06/05 06:14 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

"Any method of regular teeth brushing will be beneficial."

This is really petty, but certain methods have shown to be more effective. Your approach to dogma is dogmatic.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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