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Re: Am I a fascist? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4040380 -

Quote:
RANDALFLAGG said:
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when it comes to the survival, defense, and retribution of my nation, I view any actions as being pretty much acceptable
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I think that Khalid Sheik Mohammed (currently in U.S. custody) should be released into Times Square in New York City where the city residents can do whatever they want to him.
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I think that confirmed members of Al Qaeda should be horrendously tortured.
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I would slather them in pig grease and put them in a cage with mean hungry dogs and then I would probably slice off their limbs with chainsaws. I would send the videotape to Al Jazeera for the sole purpose of scaring all of the Arabs and Muslims that were watching.
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I don't think (?) disqualifies me from being dictator of the United States.
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I don't think that the U.S. gains any power by propping up governments over there. We get only heat and condemnation from the rest of the world. We take all of the heat to ensure that the oil continues to flow for all of the world's consumers.
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In fact I said how America owes them an apology for the ample meddling that has taken place. However, I still think that once this apology and change of behavior takes place, a blunt message of fearsome retaliation should be given if there were to be any further aggressions by Muslim extremists.
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I don't think it is out of line to give a warning to the entire Arab and Muslim world.
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If a certain group of people wants to destroy you or sympathizes with people who want to destroy you, then you discriminate against them if you want to survive.`
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>>And how many Muslims and Arabs have been killed by the U.S. occupation of Iraq?
I have seen estimates ranging from 10,000 to 50,000. It could be argued that by getting rid of Saddam the sanctions could be lifted and therefore lives would be saved in the long run.
While it is terrible that it appears as if that many people have died, the tactics used by both sides are completely different. When an innocent Muslim dies because of U.S. actions, it is a mistake. During many instances when a Muslim decides to go on a holy martyrdom mission, he intentionally targets innocent people.
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My reason to distrust Muslims and their intentions is not personal. It is a valid response to a group of people that seem to be hostile to my people and my country. I merely examine reality and respond accordingly.
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There are a lot of Muslims out there who hate my country and my culture. Some of them are actively trying to kill me.
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Thank God I am on the side of the bomb.
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7. With Saddam gone the U.S. government can pull troops out of Saudi Arabia without looking wimpy. Having American troops in Saudi Arabia (which houses the holiest sites of Islam) is one of the main reasons that Muslims hate the U.S.

8. The Middle East is notorious for inspiring cultures that respect power. By taking out a blatantly hostile leader, we send a message to the Middle East in general??Don?t mess with us?.
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I only want to torture people who involve themselves in the planning or execution of terrorist attacks against civilians. They deserve it.
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>>You are calling for a lynching mob.
Yes, I am.
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When it comes to terrorists who have killed or planned to kill innocent people, I think much worse things should happen to them than what happened at Abu Graihb and Guantanamo.
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I would not abolish the right for American citizens to vote or to have civil rights. However, I would abolish human rights for terrorists.
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>>Why do most people in other countries that have been hit by Al Qaeda don't share your >>views? Look at Spain for example.
I have no clue. I don?t give a shit what they think. I care about what I think.
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I think Muslims should be watched. I think the more extreme Muslims should be very closely scrutinized. And, I think that Muslims who have planned or acted out violence against innocent American civilians should be tortured and killed.
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Arabs are for the most part Muslim and they are the most prevalent race in the Middle East.
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If the people abused and tortured at Abu Ghraib deserved it, then I don't feel bad.
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I affirm mob action against terrible scumbags who murder innocent people.
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I am of the opinion that when you deal with savages, you have to be savage.




You started the thread with: Am I a Fascist?
I can't discern that because I lack a few statements characteristic of the definition of Fascism, even though the rest of the criteria are firmly established.

Are you a racist?
Even though you are of the opinion that there is such a thing as an Arab Race (would that be black or asian?) technically they mostly belong to the white race and since you extend it to others who are not of middle-eastern descent, there are many things in your thread that are arguably racist-extremist, but I can not apply that term positively.

Are you a psychopath/sociopath as defined by DSM IV?
Probably not. Some of your statements in other threads pretty much rule that out.

Then what are you?
Dangerous.

If a leader of a nation held and acted upon the convictions you just vented, then by your own definitions he should be put to gruesome death.

Suppose you swapped the words in your posting. Suppose every time you said "American" we swap that for Middle-Eastern and vice versa, and let's suppose we live in Iraq and consider the US invasion as "trespassing on private property for the purpose of killing scores of thousands of men, women and children and city-bombing" Let's say that you, as that simple Iraqi farmer who has seen the torn-off limbs of his loved ones rotting all around the place, consider that war a terrorist act which killed scores of thousands of civilians who were not government officials.

If you swapped the notion of who is the terrorist, then you are a political extremist, a "Capitalist fundamentalist" who unfolds his plans for murder, indiscriminate xenophobic violence and torture in a public place gripped by the delusion that he is Justified to such an extent that he cannot imagine to be wrong.
If you want to see a fundamentalist extremist, take a long hard look at your post.

If a nation is led by a person who has that degree of radicalism in his rethoric and policy then it is arguably the duty of the people of that nation to remove that leader from office themselves by any means effective, preferably through nonviolent means.

That should've been done to Saddam in the first place. The army and people of Iraq should've removed Saddam from power and then scores of thousands of people would not have been killed.
In fact: the US could've selectively taken Saddam out, by dropping a MOAB on his beanie when his satellite-visible 100 man escort was taking him from A to B. But.. they chose to kill scores of thousands of people who were not active part of the regime.

Randalflagg, you can supply statements such as "I think much worse things should happen to them than what happened at Abu Graihb and Guantanamo." and justify them with a thousand statements like: "I don?t give a shit what they think. I care about what I think." but you have made up your mind and will not be swayed by discussion to the contrary.

We don't -have- to argue with you. All we have to do as human beings and/or americans is to make sure you never become president, and if you do, to remove you from office by any means effective, preferably nonviolent.


.


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Re: Am I a fascist? [Re: Asante]
    #4042444 -

Quote:
Wiccan Seeker said:
there are many things in your thread that are arguably racist-extremist




I don?t think it is racist to examine a certain group that has proclivities for certain behaviors and then modify your own behavior accordingly.

Quote:
Wiccan Seeker said:
Then what are you?
Dangerous.




I?ll agree with that.

Quote:
Wiccan Seeker said:
Suppose every time you said "American" we swap that for Middle-Eastern and vice versa, and let's suppose we live in Iraq and consider the US invasion as "trespassing on private property for the purpose of killing scores of thousands of men, women and children and city-bombing" Let's say that you, as that simple Iraqi farmer who has seen the torn-off limbs of his loved ones rotting all around the place, consider that war a terrorist act which killed scores of thousands of civilians who were not government officials.




And I have said a million times that I can understand why Muslims and Arabs hate the U.S.  The U.S. has done some shitty things in that part of the world.  I realize that a lot of them are angry at us and some of them want to kill us.  What is wrong with acknowledging that and taking precautions?

Quote:
Wiccan Seeker said:
If you want to see a fundamentalist extremist, take a long hard look at your post.




I?ll admit my stance is extreme.  I only advocate such horrific punishments for people who are obviously guilty of engaging in despicable acts.  For example, when a convicted child molester is released into the general population of a prison and he is raped and killed, I will shed no tears for him.


Quote:
Wiccan Seeker said:
you have made up your mind and will not be swayed by discussion to the contrary.




True.

Quote:
Wiccan Seeker said:
We don't -have- to argue with you. All we have to do as human beings and/or americans is to make sure you never become president, and if you do, to remove you from office by any means effective, preferably nonviolent.




:lol:
Don?t worry.  My past is not stellar enough to qualify me for the presidency.  I have about 50 times more skeletons in my closet than G. W. Bush ever had.

Imagine how nuts the press would go if they found out I post on the Shroomery.

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Re: Am I a fascist? [Re: BanJankri]
    #4042459 -

Quote:
RandalFlagg said:
Any Muslim that raises his hand against the U.S. from now on will be mercilessly tortured and killed. If you do not currently fear us, you will fear us.


Banjankri said
why are you necesarily torturing and killing muslims that raises their hands up the U.S?




I think anybody that engages in despicable acts should face terrible punishment?whether they are Muslim or not. In this day and age, Muslims are the ones that are most likely to engage in terrorist attacks against civilians.

Quote:
Banjankri said:
Should the others have the right to torture and kill the Americans if it continues its policies in the middle east?




No. But American soldiers and officials are fair game.

Quote:
Banjankri said:
Also remember the curusades? remember the millions of people killing and forcefully converted? so is it only common for extremist muslims to engage in violance?




A thousand years ago there was rampant Christian extremism. Today there is rampant Islamic extremism. I am not concerned about the past. I am concerned about the present.

Quote:
Banjankri said:
International relations have developed so much since the dark ages and what your suggesting is a return to those times, with states being barbarous against the "barbarians".




You can?t have ?relations? and conversations with people who operate in the shadows and who have vowed to attack and destroy you.

Quote:
Banjankri said:
nationalism generally leads people to irrationality and you are letting your emotions get in front of logic.




I think I am operating with logic. I think it is logical to punish people who do terrible things to you.

Quote:
Banjankri said:
as much as you say you dont hate all and only the extremist ones, you are then saying I'm on my guard against muslims, that muslims are all potential terrorists. you certainly have islamphobia, plain and simple.




I have a heightened state of awareness when it comes to Muslims and the Muslim world in general. This wariness is based upon things I have already listed.

And when Zahudulallah says, ?I hate a lot of American culture? do you think he has ?Americaphobia??

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Re: Am I a fascist? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4043772 -

Anti-Americanism is a euphemism is Anti-Right wing extremism


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Re: Am I a fascist? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4044025 -

Quote:
I affirm mob action against terrible scumbags who murder innocent people. I don't care what religion or ethnicity they are. It's just that most of the people doing it happen to be Muslims.


There are waaay more innocent civilian people killed in the US because people have the right to own guns, and therefor also happen to use them, than because of muslim/other group terrorist actions. That is probably the biggest threat to 'your fellow citizens'.

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Re: Am I a fascist? [Re: stefan]
    #4044158 -

And there are way more innocent civilian people killed in the US because Americans are allowed to own knives. And pantyhose. And cars, for that matter. What's your point?

This thread isn't about which weapons individual Americans choose to use when they decide to murder each other, it's about the proper attitude to hold towards Islamic terrorists.


Phred


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Re: Am I a fascist? [Re: Phred]
    #4044335 -

What about Chechen terrorists


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Re: Am I a fascist? [Re: Phred]
    #4044402 -

Phred said:
And there are way more innocent civilian people killed in the US because Americans are allowed to own knives. And pantyhose. And cars, for that matter. What's your point?

This thread isn't about which weapons individual Americans choose to use when they decide to murder each other, it's about the proper attitude to hold towards Islamic terrorists.




smartass :smirk:
so you're trying to say here that americans murder each other a lot regardless if they have guns or not? don't think so. This is a debate that no one wins though; like we have seen in other threads so lets not bring it up again. My mistake for bringing it up.
I know what this thread is about, it's not just about islamic terrorists, but also about killing innocent people and the threat that they face.

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Re: Am I a fascist? [Re: Phred]
    #4044409 -

Quote:
This thread isn't about which weapons individual Americans choose to use when they decide to murder each other, it's about the proper attitude to hold towards Islamic terrorists.



I thought it was about determining whether Randalflagg was a racist.
MOD FIGHT! :evil:

The proper attitude to hold towards Islamic terrorists.
Hmm, lessee.. Cooperating with the UN/international community is mandatory ofcourse, just like it is with all other UN members.

Capture the terrorists and put them through the justice system just as you would with any terrorist, lessay like it was done with the Oklahoma City Bombing. (except the part where the entire US was hunting Arabs when in fact it was a white supremacist who was responsible)

There's no need to bend the law away from democracy, the law always has been just fine as long as it is being enforced. Cooperate with the UN in regard to interventions in international affairs.
If the rest of the world is opposed to one nation invading another, the rest of the world will probably have good reasons for that :wink:

The Islamic part has nothing to do with the terrorism. Terrorism is terrorism. By putting heavy emphasis on the Islamic part you alienate muslims and if you then barge into your country... They might just attach a fuse to one of your unexploded munitions, bury it in the middle of the road and patiently await anything American to set it off under. And there you have yet another "terrorist attack". That's what we Europeans did with the Germans in WW II. If Iraq invaded the US then that's what you as a US citizen would want to do too.

Imagine this scenario: Saddam's presidential escort is halted in the middle of the desert and by dropping a smart bomb from high altitude to their left and right are intimidated to surrender.
You then seize Saddam, put him to justice (life in a supermax prison) and dismantle the Iraqi military apparatus using the strategy of intimidation in favor of indiscriminately dropping kilotons of BLUs from airplanes.

The people of Iraq would breakdance and do the moonwalk in the streets for having the dictatorship lifted without civilian casualties. Iraqi soldiers and terrorist suicide bombers are minions, you have to realize that. It's the leaders you're after not the peons.

Once the people of Iraq see the US is not the raging all-devouring bloodthirty hog Saddam's propaganda machine made the US to look, they'll merrily liberate their own country and allow a bit of international meddling in their affairs. As a result the oppressed people of other Middle East nations would wake up & smell the coffee and liberate their own country, aided by UN hardware like England supplied hardware to La R?sistance in WW2 France.

But the US has proven itself to be just as bloodthirsty as Saddam's propaganda claimed. They have torn the country to shreds like Saddam said they would. And now all sorts of warlords (who would STFU if they saw a massive people's revolution backed by UN hardware) are coming out of the woodwork and you've got a Vietnam-like political shambles, putting them from a dictatorship into a Civil War that kicked off with scores of 1000s of casualties.

The way to topple dictatorships is, as an international community, to disarm the enemy's propaganda and show them the better life they can live. Work towards a revolution and back it with hardware. If the Iraqi resistance needs a bridge destroyed to gain leverage over the army, do a flyby to clear it and then a second to drop a smart bomb.

And get real on Israel.

There should be action to ensure Iran or like regimes do not gain nuclear capability. Not that they would ever use it against the US like the stateless Bin Laden would. Iran has ten major cities that will be flattened on the day they use the bomb on a US city. Bin Laden has no such vulnerable sitting-duck targets.

How do you flush out terrorist orgs like Al Quaida? Easy as pie! You make them *really* unpopular with the local population, and you do that in the same way and in fact the same operation, that topples the extremist regimes with unprecedented defense of the population, who are more hostages of their dictator then the rest of the world is.

How did Gandhi win India's independance?
Through the goodness and inherent Justness of his actions.
America should adopt the charming ways of Gandhi, not the blitzkrieg brute force of Hitler.

Call me a pussy, but charming the local populations whilst being highly persuasive in removing the rogue leaders is the ONLY way to win in the battle against Middle-Eastern terrorism.

You can't fight fire with fire, bombs with bombers, or radicals with radicalism, what you want to achieve is that the local Imam spits out his mint tea and screams: "They did WHAT?!" in amused disbelief rather then thundering outrage which in his local, nonpolitical point of view probably is justified.

The people of the Middle East and the US should be made aware that they are the brotherhood of man, duped by the powers that be.

The Iraqi (or any) people are.. People. They (or you) ere not the Devil! Young Americans and Iraqis can hang out together, go to the park to smoke some primo hydro and hasheesh, teaching eachother the workings of gravity bongs and hookahs! You can actually chill together , discuss stuff and bitch about your governments, and both sides will have alot to bitch about.

The biggest mistake here and everywhere is that the PEOPLE of the US and Iraq were at war: They were the REGIMES, using propaganda to anger and excite the people. If the Iraqi's of a given village knew you were cool you could hang out there, sip mint tea and hookah away over a laid-back political debate (a long standing tradition in the Arabic world, that combination) and help some less fortunate of them to put the roofs back on their houses.
People are people, Christian, Islamic OR atheist!


.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

Onehomemission.org
truly make a difference

Edited by Asante (04/12/05 07:12 AM)

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Re: Am I a fascist? [Re: stefan]
    #4044859 -

stefan said:
There are waaay more innocent civilian people killed in the US because people have the right to own guns, and therefor also happen to use them, than because of muslim/other group terrorist actions. That is probably the biggest threat to 'your fellow citizens'.



The biggest killer of American citizens is heart disease. Guns are third or fourth on the list I believe. Guns actually serve a purpose though. I am willing to put up with the deaths of some people if it means that these valuable tools remain legal. I am also willing to put up with the deaths caused by automobiles (which are many) if it means that they remain legal to use.

Guns and automobiles have redeeming qualities. Terrorists do not. Also, the possible death toll from a terrorist attack could be massive.

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Re: Am I a fascist? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4045039 -

Quote:
Guns and automobiles have redeeming qualities. Terrorists do not.



Some time ago the following happened: A couple of terrorists broke into the Peoples Registry of Amsterdam. They took all the files and folders and threw them on a big heap. Then they put a timed firebomb on top of it and left. At night the Peoples Registry burned to the ground and there was a huge organisational mess which led to near insurmountable problems in the relocation of illegal citizens.
This terrorist firebomb hit at the heart of Dutch government.

Guess what: they're national heroes.
The "Dutch Government" was overtaken by the Nazis. The "relocation of illegal citizens" were Jew deportations to Auschwitz. The "Terrorists" as the nazis called them were Freedom Fighters, at least that's how we Dutch see it.


In the same manner many people of Iraq have viewed the US Army as an invasion army, like nazi's out to kill and steal their land/oil.
What makes a terrorist? Were the Japanese Kamikaze pilots terrorists? They were suicide bombers, but locally regarded as heroes giving their life for the fatherland.

It's not so simple as you put it. You are willing to put up with the death of many for what you think is right, like you said throughout this thread, but are you susceptible to the notion that violence births violence?

If you, to literally quote you, "smear (guilty) muslims with pig's grease, put them in a cage to be torn by dogs, then dismember them with a chainsaw and send the videotapes of it to Al Jazeera" you will not instill fear but outrage. You would send swarms of new terrorists (who would be farmers had your madness not angered them into radicalism) directly to the USA for the porpose of unhinging your nation. Then what? Nuke their major cities? Oook, now the whole Arab World is breathing fallout and invades Europe, making France and England launch a nuclear counterstrike. Now what? Oh right, the terrorists use nervegas on public gatherings foreign and domestic and farters will be shot on sight.

CONGRATULATIONS! You have set the world on fire! Terrorists are everywhere, you've got several megadeath of casualties and nuclear fallout raining down on the world from the Jetstream, the Middle East is at war, all out HOLY war, with the West, Europe is DIRELY pissed off because half of Europe is occupied by armies and the other half is bombed to shite by terrorists, and all because you thought it appropriate to "smear (guilty) muslims with pig's grease, put them in a cage to be torn by dogs, then dismember them with a chainsaw and send the videotapes of it to Al Jazeera".

If you are pissed off it's great to bitch and say the most horrible things, but you're doing it on the Internet and playing every bit the "uncivilized american swine" the propaganda claims Americans to be.
Your post may be cut & pasted into some fundamentalist forum to aggrevate their anger. The Internet is a public place so you may actually add to the problem.

Quote:
Also, the possible death toll from a terrorist attack could be massive.



If you get your way the number of terrorist attacks and death toll WILL be massive. If a martian came to planet earth and charged you with a baseballbat you would give him a facefull of buckshot to defend yourself. You do NOT go to Mars to create one enormous gorefest of carnage and bloodshed to prevent the likelyiness that they one day might come to earth to harm you.
It's the same with thugs in the neigborhood.
It's the same with terrorist organisations and your country.
A country is a sitting duck.

Go the Gandhi way. Meeting violence with violence only works if you drive it to the point of genociding all who disagree off of this earth. Now I know you don't want to go that far so please reconsider your thought that violence is the answer.

The people of the Middle East need a hug, not a bomb  :wink:
The dictators and terrorists however need a hefty kick in the nuts and to be hauled off to the international peace court of The Hague, or to Washington if they committed terrorism on US soil.

Violence never was the answer.
You've got Jesus and.. well that guy that convicted him.
You've got Gandhi and.. well whoever was in charge of England.
See?


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

Onehomemission.org
truly make a difference

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Re: Am I a fascist? [Re: Asante]
    #4045157 -

Quote:
Randalflagg said:
Guns and automobiles have redeeming qualities. Terrorists do not.

Wiccan Seeker said:
A couple of terrorists broke into the Peoples Registry of Amsterdam. They took all the files and folders and threw them on a big heap. Then they put a timed firebomb on top of it and left. At night the Peoples Registry burned to the ground

Guess what: they're national heroes.




Burning some files and a building is not terrorism.  Killing innocent civilians is.

Quote:
Wiccan Seeker said:
The "Dutch Government" was overtaken by the Nazis. The "relocation of illegal citizens" were Jew deportations to Auschwitz.

The "Terrorists" as the nazis called them were Freedom Fighters, at least that's how we Dutch see it.

In the same manner many people of Iraq have viewed the US Army as an invasion army




Attacking soldiers is acceptable.  Targeting civilians is not.

When an American soldier is killed, I am saddened.  But at the same time, they are soldiers and should expect violence to be directed towards them.

Quote:
Wiccan Seeker said:
What makes a terrorist? Were the Japanese Kamikaze pilots terrorists? They were suicide bombers, but locally regarded as heroes giving their life for the fatherland.




Somebody who intentionally targets innocent civilians.

Quote:
Wiccan Seeker said:
It's not so simple as you put it. You are willing to put up with the death of many for what you think is right, like you said throughout this thread




Guns serve a purpose.  A terrorist killing women and children serves no purpose.

Quote:
Wiccan Seeker said:
If you, to literally quote you, "smear (guilty) muslims with pig's grease, put them in a cage to be torn by dogs, then dismember them with a chainsaw and send the videotapes of it to Al Jazeera" you will not instill fear but outrage.




I think it would instill more fear than outrage.

Quote:
Wiccan Seeker said:
You would send swarms of new terrorists (who would be farmers had your madness not angered them into radicalism)




They are already radical and I think extreme torture would dissuade them.

Quote:
Wiccan Seeker said:
Then what? Nuke their major cities?




No.  Too many innocents would be killed in such an action.

Quote:
Wiccan Seeker said:
playing every bit the "uncivilized american swine" the propaganda claims Americans to be.




:rotfl:  You call me uncivilized for wanting to punish people who intentionally try to kill innocent civilians?  What about the terrorists themselves?  Are they uncivilized? 

I only advocate torture for obviously guilty people.

Quote:
Randalflagg said:
Also, the possible death toll from a terrorist attack could be massive.

Wiccan Seeker said:
If you get your way the number of terrorist attacks and death toll WILL be massive. If a martian came to planet earth and charged you with a baseballbat you would give him a facefull of buckshot to defend yourself. You do NOT go to Mars to create one enormous gorefest of carnage and bloodshed to prevent the likelyiness




Who ever said I "wanted to go to Mars"?  I have said repeatedly that the U.S. should disengage from the Middle East.

As far as "giving the invading Martian a facefull of buckshot", that's exactly what I want to do.


Quote:
Wiccan Seeker said:
The dictators and terrorists however need a hefty kick in the nuts and to be hauled off to the international peace court of The Hague, or to Washington if they committed terrorism on US soil.




Well, at least you think that.

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Re: Am I a fascist? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4045192 -

You have an inquisitor's mentality Randal, which is what people in this thread are taking issue with.


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Re: Am I a fascist? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4045261 -

Quote:
Randalflagg said:
.
I only advocate torture for obviously guilty people.



Isn't torture supposed to be a way to find out if someone is guilty? Oh well I guess it can be a form of punishment too if you abandon all civilization.

Quote:
Burning some files and a building is not terrorism. Killing innocent civilians is.



How about indiscriminately dropping 2.000 lbs Dumb Bombs (BLUs) on residential areas of Baghdad? would that be terrorism? It levels an entire city block like a truck bomb would. How would you react to a nation who has dropped tens of thousands of truckbombs onto residential areas of Iraqi cities and who developed 20.000 lbs bombs to search for weapons of mass destruction?

Bush has killed scores of thousands of innocent civilians, yet you are not going to say he should have a tweezer sac epilation for that. No sirree, killing tens of thousdands of civilians indiscriminately is no terrorism when Bush does it! Then it's "preventive war"

Imagine Saddam dropping tens of thousands of bombs on New York City, levelling manhattan, in a preventive war to prevent US attack?
Precisely what the US did, but reversed. That doesnt instill fear but hate, doesnt it?

Can you please detail what you will do to terrorists some more please? I'm feeling like I've got a free front row seat at Jerry Springer :rotfl:


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

Onehomemission.org
truly make a difference

Edited by Asante (04/12/05 01:14 PM)

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Re: Am I a fascist? [Re: Asante]
    #4045759 -

Quote:
Randalflagg said:
I only advocate torture for obviously guilty people.

Wiccan Seeker said:
Isn't torture supposed to be a way to find out if someone is guilty?




I advocate torture as punishment for reprehensible people, not as a normal interrogation technique. I think very low level coercion (sleep deprivation, bad food, sensory deprivation, etc..) can be used against suspects if the case is serious (a terrorist plot to kill innocent civilians for example).

Quote:
Wiccan Seeker said:
How about indiscriminately dropping 2.000 lbs Dumb Bombs (BLUs) on residential areas of Baghdad? would that be terrorism?




I have never heard of the U.S. military having a policy of indiscriminately doing anything. If some U.S. official or soldier advocated intentionally killing innocent people, I would be clamoring for his head.

Quote:
Wiccan Seeker said:
Bush has killed scores of thousands of innocent civilians, yet you are not going to say he should have a tweezer sac epilation for that.




I think Bush should be taken to a hostile Arab country and dropped off in the downtown of a city (much like I think should happen to Khalid Sheik Mohammed). He has done much damage to the U.S., to foreign people, and to American soldiers.

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Re: Am I a fascist? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4046368 -

Quote:
Wiccan Seeker said:
How about indiscriminately dropping 2.000 lbs Dumb Bombs (BLUs) on residential areas of Baghdad? would that be terrorism?



Quote:
Randalflagg said:
I have never heard of the U.S. military having a policy of indiscriminately doing anything. If some U.S. official or soldier advocated intentionally killing innocent people, I would be clamoring for his head.



If you are dropping Dumb Bombs on restidential areas then killing innocent civilians is policy.

Bombs blast structures apart and rip people to shreds at a given distance from the point where they drop. That's indiscriminate. In fact children rip apart more readily then adults. A Dumb Bomb is thrown and falls in a certain radius which is rather large. If you are dropping Dumb Bombs on residential areas then you are indiscriminately killing civilians, innocent civilians in fact easier than the guilty ones, because the guilty ones got concrete bunkers while the innocent barely have nothing sturdy to hide under. Bomb fragments, especially of the big BLUs, are lethal at one mile distance, making a BLU potentially lethal in a two mile radius. Flyrock (think cubic feet of cemented bricks) easily flies 1/2 mile as lethal projectiles, that's a 1 mile radius.

The USA has dropped 10.000s of those in Iraqi cities. And I'm not even touching the topic of cluster bombs, which are among the main munitions used. Visit the Federation of American Scientists to familiarize yourself with the effects of weapons of war and you'll get some idea about what went down on Bush's orders. It wasn't advocated, it was carried out deliberately though.

Quote:
I think Bush should be taken to a hostile Arab country and dropped off in the downtown of a city (much like I think should happen to Khalid Sheik Mohammed). He has done much damage to the U.S., to foreign people, and to American soldiers.



Removing him from office and delivering him to international justice would suffice. There's no need for street justice in international affairs. He is a greater enemy of your freedom than any terrorist could ever be.

And to pull open a can of terrorism: NORAD stood down for almost 2 hours on sept 11, 2001. They intercepted anything perfectly in their history, but all the hijacked planes were allowed to fly, even hitting *the pentagon*. Conspiracy nut or not, what is up with a slow-flying known hijacked airliner flying to, reaching and crashing into the Pentagon? A fuckup of that magnitude is near impossible if the US Armed Forces could have carried out their tasks unobstructed.

We are all opposed to terrorism, we just differ in the way we believe it should be handled. I believe in being a shining light of moral justness, you believe in casting a pitch black shadow of being the most cruel of all countries. I don't think we can resolve this.

.


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Re: Am I a fascist? [Re: Asante]
    #4046468 -

Wiccan_Seeker writes:

Quote:
If you are dropping Dumb Bombs on restidential areas then killing innocent civilians is policy.



You first claimed it was done indiscriminately. I would like to see a credible source showing how many dumb bombs were dropped on Baghdad in 2003. I would then like to see a credible source showing the few (if any) which were dropped were dropped at random.

Quote:
The USA has dropped 10.000s of those in Iraqi cities.



Credible source, please.

And by the way, this has nothing to do with the topic of the thread.


Phred


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Re: Am I a fascist? [Re: Phred]
    #4046984 -

What source do you have insurgents target indiscriminately


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Re: Am I a fascist? [Re: zahudulallah]
    #4047010 -

You're right. They are not indiscriminate. They deliberately target schools and hospitals.


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Re: Am I a fascist? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4047017 -

The more you stick up for these people the more you put the lie to your assertion that you are merely a peaceloving Muslim dog fucker.


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