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 zahudulallah Sexual Heretic  Registered: 10/21/04 Posts: 10,579 Loc: Tokyo, Japan Last seen: 21 years, 5 months |
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I don't hate all of them. I hate the extremist ones and I distrust the intentions, sympathies, and motivations of the general population.
I.e. Islamophobia. At least you don't try to mask your blatant bigotry -- unlike most people, you seem to be proud of your ignorance. As can be evidenced by the ample terrorist actions undertaken by Muslims from all over the world, they are all potential terrorists in my opinion. You're getting a 1 shroom rating for that. There is truth to that. That is why I would immediately halt all of those meddling and innappropriate foreign policy actions by the U.S. I cannot stress the word "benighted" enough. Please, look it up Randal. I never said they didn't have a legitimate reason to be mad. You seem to believe that just because a Muslim hates the United States that he represents a security threat. Such blatantly stupid, phobic mentalities are what creates inquisitions through history. Will you learn? Probably not. We shall see. I am merely giving my opinion. Like the confederates and slave traders, your opinion will be proven stupid, ignorant, and wrong. McCarthy was a grand-standing dishonest scumbag, but he was pretty accurate in his portrayal of the communist threat. As if he was "on the mark" on the blatant harassment and oppression of Americans who leaned far too left of center for his comfort. In the 1600's it was Witches and Pagans. In the 1900's it was communists. In the 21st century it's now Muslims. Why is it Randal, that the Right has to always have a declared enemy to support itself? Sounds like junk science and war economics to me. They are a threat, plain and simple. Many Muslims hate my country. Many of them live quietly in my country while holding a seething hatred of it. I don't trust them. I'm a Muslim, Randal. I despise the United States, its government, and half its culture. Am I "threat", Randall? How many articles have I read of Muslims who lived in the U.S., had lots of friends, and "loved this country" only to run over to Iraq to become suicide bombers or something like that? I don't know, how many? Do please post the links. I remember when a Muslim U.S. Army soldier threw a grenade into a U.S. Army tent killing and injuring some U.S. soldiers. Link? I am on my guard against Muslims. I will not foolishly hold out my arms to people who want to destroy me and my country. On guard? What does that mean? So you eye up Muslims in the grocery store? Are you even polite to Muslims? It's only a matter of time before you give some Arab American who listens to Rap music a cock-eyed look and get a left hook in the face. And knowing you, that would probably make you cry. -------------------- 
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 Ravus Not an EggshellWalker   Registered: 07/18/03 Posts: 7,991 Loc: Cave of the Patr |
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Look at history. Has discrimination ever worked? Does keeping a massive religion, political viewpoint or race down ever work? Maybe the small ones that can be easily wiped out, but you're talking about over 1,500,000,000 people here. Torturing a few of them to try to threaten the other ones to roll over with their legs up will only backfire.
It surely wouldn't discourage terrorists; you think someone willing to strap a bomb to themselves and blow themselves up will be discouraged by a small possibility of capture and torture? Doubtful. It wouldn't stop new terrorists; if anything, it would just add to the numbers of terrorists, as they campaign to the angry Muslims around the world that America is torturing Muslims. So what's the point of this detrimental action? Pure blood-loving? That sounds about all you'd get out of it, just another crucifixion for the Jews to gather around and cheer at while the soldiers play dice. The U.S. has done far worse things to the terrorists and Muslims than they could ever do the U.S. Many more have died, many have been tortured, innocent civilians have had their houses blown up and family killed. If all the Muslims of the world took your violent discriminatory attitude, there would be no Americans left. Luckily, terrorism is an extremely miniscule fraction of Islam, just as it is in Christianity and other religions. We like to capitalize more on Islamic terrorism because we're actually getting retribution for our past actions and so try to stereotype a whole massive race and religion. -------------------- So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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RandalFlagg Stranger Registered: 06/15/02 Posts: 15,608 |
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I consider it realism, not bigotry.
Look up the following occurrences: 1. Bali bombing - 202 killed (Oct. 1, 2002) 2. Luxor shooting - over 70 killed (Nov. 17, 1997) 3. Chechnya school shooting - 344 killed (Sep. 3, 2004) 4. Madrid bombing - 191 killed (Mar. 11, 2004) 5. African Embassy attacks - 288 killed (Aug. 7, 1998) Notice a pattern at all?
I am benighted because I want to end U.S. interference in the Middle East? I thought you would agree with me on that assertion.
Yes, you are a threat. You belong to a religion that has ample members who engage in or sympathize with violent actions against civilians and who hate my country. And on top of that you admit your hatred of my country, the government, and my culture. That is a bold statement and it is threatening. I have seen you demonstrate ample sympathy for Muslim extremists who have killed people. People who exhibit these opinions are threats. The second somebody decides to act on these opinions, they become even bigger threats.
Like I said...McCarthy was a scumbag. That doesn't change the fact that the communists were active, were a threat, and were dedicated to the destruction of America. When somebody holds allegiances to an ideology that preaches your destruction...you should be wary and concerned.
I am not picking Muslims as an "enemy" to have something to rail against. I am merely examining the reality that a lot of the Islamic world seems to be fomenting violence and extremism.
http://www.natashatynes.org/newswire/2005/04/raed_albanna_a_.html
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2003/03/24/MN17824.DTL
I am wary of them and their intentions.
I don't give people funny looks. And, I don't cry.
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RandalFlagg Stranger Registered: 06/15/02 Posts: 15,608 |
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If a certain group of people wants to destroy you or sympathizes with people who want to destroy you, then you discriminate against them if you want to survive.
Maybe.
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zahudulallah Sexual Heretic Registered: 10/21/04 Posts: 10,579 Loc: Tokyo, Japan Last seen: 21 years, 5 months |
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I consider it realism, not bigotry.
Just about every bigot and witch hunter tells themself that. Look up the following occurrences: 1. Bali bombing - 202 killed (Oct. 1, 2002) 2. Luxor shooting - over 70 killed (Nov. 17, 1997) 3. Chechnya school shooting - 344 killed (Sep. 3, 2004) 4. Madrid bombing - 191 killed (Mar. 11, 2004) 5. African Embassy attacks - 288 killed (Aug. 7, 1998) Notice a pattern at all? And how many Muslims and Arabs have been killed by the U.S. occupation of Iraq? How many Chechens have been killed by Russia's dual invasions of Chechnya? Furthermore, only ONE of those attacks was on an American target. I need not even mention all the acts of terror and murder that have been carried out by Christians. I am benighted because I want to end U.S. interference in the Middle East? I thought you would agree with me on that assertion. You're benighted because while you supposedly acknowledge "U.S. interference", you continue to contribute to a clashing of cultures. Yes, you are a threat. You belong to a religion that has ample members who engage in or sympathize with violent actions against civilians and who hate my country. And on top of that you admit your hatred of my country, the government, and my culture. That is a bold statement and it is threatening. I have seen you demonstrate ample sympathy for Muslim extremists who have killed people. People who exhibit these opinions are threats. The second somebody decides to act on these opinions, they become even bigger threats.  If I'm a threat to you, you're probably a threat to Dutch Libertarians. Like I said...McCarthy was a scumbag. That doesn't change the fact that the communists were active, were a threat, and were dedicated to the destruction of America. When somebody holds allegiances to an ideology that preaches your destruction...you should be wary and concerned. Dedicated to the destruction of America? First, the McCarthyist witch hunt was one directed towards members of Communist Party USA. Are you saying that the basic constitutional rights of people to believe whatever they want to believe politically were a threat to American security? From '48 to '56, America suffered a major lapse in civil liberties. And last but not least, what proof do you have that Communist ideology is specifically dedicated to the destruction of America? I am not picking Muslims as an "enemy" to have something to rail against. I am merely examining the reality that a lot of the Islamic world seems to be fomenting violence and extremism. Aw, so what happened to the Commie threat, Randy? There's still Cuba, North Korea.. and *drum roll* China http://www.natashatynes.org/new Where is this story in the mainstream press? http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/a "Apparently Muslim" Why cant you link these incidents to more mainstream media?I am wary of them and their intentions. And just what are the intentions of the average Muslim? I don't give people funny looks. And, I don't cry. Lies --------------------
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Kalix 'Head  Registered: 03/20/05 Posts: 1,504 Last seen: 20 years, 10 months |
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You are a fascist...
-------------------- My Unitarian Jihad Name is: The Shotgun of Sweet Reason
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Phred Fred's son   Registered: 10/19/00 Posts: 12,949 Loc: Dominican Republ Last seen: 11 years, 9 months |
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It was everywhere at the time it occurred. This was all over the news for days at the very beginning of the Iraq invasion. The Lefties were having a field day with it, claiming variously that -- the US military couldn't even protect its troops from their own kind so how could they defeat the dreaded Republican Guard armed with biochem weapons -- this showed that even American Muslims didn't want to see the most prolific killer of Muslims in the last century deposed -- the invasion was another "Viet Nam" ... look, the fragging has started already! The guy who fragged the tents -- murdering two and wounding a dozen others -- isn't an "alleged" Muslim, he's a self-admitted Muslim. Read his statements. If you want something more up to date than the link Randall provided, go here and browse for hours. Reports in Yahoo, MSNBC, ABC, AP, WaPo, Washington Times and many many more about the upcoming trial and his confessions, his defense team's proposed defense.... click and ye shall be rewarded. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...amp;btnG=Search Phred -------------------- 
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shroommachine Stranger Registered: 01/03/05 Posts: 1,202 Loc: Florida Last seen: 12 years, 4 months |
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Off topic, but I'm
our political compass Economic Left/Right: -5.63 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.62 -------------------- And I said, I don't care if they lay me off either, because I told, I told Bill that if they move my desk one more time, then, then I'm, I'm quitting, I'm going to quit. And, and I told Don too, because they've moved my desk ...four times already this year and I used to be over by the window and I could see the squirrels, and they were merry, but then, they switched from the Swingline to the Boston stapler, but I kept my Swingline stapler because it didn't bind up as much and I kept the staples for the Swingline stapler and its not okay because if they take my stapler then I'll set the building on fire.
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RandalFlagg Stranger Registered: 06/15/02 Posts: 15,608 |
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I have seen estimates ranging from 10,000 to 50,000. It could be argued that by getting rid of Saddam the sanctions could be lifted and therefore lives would be saved in the long run. While it is terrible that it appears as if that many people have died, the tactics used by both sides are completely different. When an innocent Muslim dies because of U.S. actions, it is a mistake. During many instances when a Muslim decides to go on a holy martyrdom mission, he intentionally targets innocent people. How a supposedly pious individual can intentionally kill young children and women with bullets or bombs is beyond me. I can understand the attacks against U.S. troops (I don't condone them however). I can understand attacks against legitimate military targets and officials. I can't understand blatant and intentional attacks against civilians. It is despicable and it is a common tactic of Muslim extremists.
I don't know. Did you see any Russians setting up bombs around little children and shooting them as they fled? Oh that's right......the Chechyn Muslims did that.
You missed my point. I intentionally listed terror attacks that occurred in many areas and against many different people as proof that Muslim extremism is very widespread and consistently targets innocent people.
If I had lived during 1000 AD and I saw the Christians going nuts, I would have called them on it too. Today it is the Muslims that are going nuts. So, I am going to call them on it.
I contribute to the "clash of cultures"? What about you?....and I quote: I'm a Muslim, Randal. I despise the United States, its government, and half its culture. You certainly seem to be more vitriolic and full of hate than I am. You are just as guilty, if not more guilty, than me when it comes to contributing to the "clash of cultures". You yell at me for expressing wariness of a culture, a religion, and a people, yet you condemn my entire country and my people. You and your Muslim brothers are allowed to seethe with hatred and I am not? Don't you think that is a tad bit of a double standard? Let me guess....you think it is OK for Muslim clerics to call for jihad against America, for virulent anti-American views to be spewed in the Arab press, and for many Arabs and Muslims to outright detest America. Yet us Americans are not allowed to be concerned about this at all? I constantly hear Muslims bitch and moan about "discrimination" and "bigotry". Yet, do you hear them cry for the victims in Madrid or in Bali? Fucking disgusting. If you belong to a group that is responsible for most of the terroristic acts against civilians during the past thirty years, you better get ready for some extra scrutiny. So....it is OK for Muslims to defend themselves, to be wary of the U.S., and to outright hate the U.S.? Yet when an American reciprocates we are labeled "ignorant", "bigots", and "full of hate"? How pathetically hypocritical.
The members of the U.S. Communist Party were loyal to the USSR. The USSR was hostile to the U.S. These members were also loyal to the tenets of Communism, which quite bluntly call for the overthrow of all capitalist economies and non-Communist governments. Lenin quite clearly said that reformers were just as bad as the "ruling class". He thought only total revolution would cure society. Therefore, these people were serious threats. Do I think they should have been thrown in jail or silenced? No. Do I think they should have been watched? Hell yes.
It has been extinguished for the most part (Thank God). Cuba is a non-factor, North Korea is a freaky zombie state (although with nukes it appears), and China is apparently moving towards more market and personal freedoms.
I just read it in the April 4, 2005 issue of "Time". Is that mainstream enough for you?
NBC News has reported that Sgt. Akbar was ?opposed to the killing of Muslims and opposed to the war in Iraq.? Reuters news agency quoted a military official as saying Sgt. Akbar was ?a Muslim, and it seems he was just against the war.? The Los Angeles Times, quoting a source close to Sgt. Akbar?s family, also reported that the soldier called his ex-wife?s family a day before the grenade attack and asked them to say ?final prayers? for him.
I don't know. But, I know I will keep my eye on them. Edited by RandalFlagg (04/08/05 03:39 AM)
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zahudulallah Sexual Heretic Registered: 10/21/04 Posts: 10,579 Loc: Tokyo, Japan Last seen: 21 years, 5 months |
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How so?
--------------------
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zahudulallah Sexual Heretic Registered: 10/21/04 Posts: 10,579 Loc: Tokyo, Japan Last seen: 21 years, 5 months |
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Alright, so it happened. I must have been occupied with something else during the time and didn't catch the blurb. However railing on "Lefties" over an isolated incident is not eloquent in the slightest. And the last point - well, needless to say Iraq is another Vietnam; however, with slight modifications to the modern situation at hand. NFL insurgents were far more prepared for their situation.
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zahudulallah Sexual Heretic Registered: 10/21/04 Posts: 10,579 Loc: Tokyo, Japan Last seen: 21 years, 5 months |
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Auto-SummaryThis forum discussion debates the impact of U.S. military actions in Iraq and the prevalence of Muslim extremism. The author argues that while civilian deaths are tragic, they are often collateral damage in the fight against insurgents, unlike extremist attacks targeting civilians intentionally. They criticize the hypocrisy of condemning American actions while excusing similar behavior by Muslim extremists. The author asserts their disdain for the U.S. government and Islam, accusing others of hypocrisy for condemning their own people. They also question the moral equivalence between American distrust and Muslim wariness, emphasizing that distrust of a government is not the same as demonizing an entire religion. The author concludes by expressing distrust of the U.S. government and China, warning of potential instability. I have seen estimates ranging from 10,000 to 50,000. It could be argued that by getting rid of Saddam the sanctions could be lifted and therefore lives would be saved in the long run. I smell a straw man. While it is terrible that it appears as if that many people have died, the tactics used by both sides are completely different. When an innocent Muslim dies because of U.S. actions, it is a mistake. During many instances when a Muslim decides to go on a holy martyrdom mission, he intentionally targets innocent people. How a supposedly pious individual can intentionally kill young children and women with bullets or bombs is beyond me. Who's to say insurgents intentionally target civilians? Just because women and children die in suicide bombings doesn't mean they were intentionally targetted. In such cases where innocent people die in insurgent attacks, it is normally attacks on American-backed Iraqi police. I can understand the attacks against U.S. troops (I don't condone them however). I can understand attacks against legitimate military targets and officials. I can't understand blatant and intentional attacks against civilians. It is despicable and it is a common tactic of Muslim extremists. Both American and Iraqi fighters use the same ass-backwards logic to justify death for a "greater good". The American fighter believes that those who are innocent that die in an American bombing are collateral damage because the American was after all trying to kill insurgents. The Iraqi insurgent uses the same logic when he detonates a car bomb outside a coalition-backed police station. I don't know. Did you see any Russians setting up bombs around little children and shooting them as they fled? Oh that's right......the Chechyn Muslims did that. Russians are not living under brutal invasive military occupation by a foreign source, so it's only natural to assume that Russians are not the ones being driven to desperation. Attacks like Beslan highlight the desperation that violent occupation can drive some people to. Furthermore, most Russians go about their daily business - Chechens on the otherhand, not one of them has been uneffected by the actions of the Kremlin. You missed my point. I intentionally listed terror attacks that occurred in many areas and against many different people as proof that Muslim extremism is very widespread and consistently targets innocent people. So, at the height of religious terrorism in Northern Ireland, where was the wary mentality towards Christians? Or how about the array of terrorist attacks against Women's clinics in the US in the 1990's? There would have been a blatant outrage if a prominent Liberal called on people to "suspect" Protestants. If I had lived during 1000 AD and I saw the Christians going nuts, I would have called them on it too. Today it is the Muslims that are going nuts. So, I am going to call them on it. Christians are still going nuts, they just avoid getting their hands dirty. Hence the frustration of oppressive foreign policy. I contribute to the "clash of cultures"? What about you?....and I quote: I'm a Muslim, Randal. I despise the United States, its government, and half its culture. You certainly seem to be more vitriolic and full of hate than I am. You are just as guilty, if not more guilty, than me when it comes to contributing to the "clash of cultures". You yell at me for expressing wariness of a culture, a religion, and a people, yet you condemn my entire country and my people. You and your Muslim brothers are allowed to seethe with hatred and I am not? Don't you think that is a tad bit of a double standard? What I am seeing you say is that it is OK for Muslims to defend themselves, it is OK for Muslims to be wary of the U.S., and it is OK for Muslims to hate the U.S. Yet when an American reciprocates we are labeled "ignorant", "bigots", and "full of hate"? How pathetically hypocritical. Is it OK when multiple and prominent Muslim clerics call for a jihad against America? Is it OK when virulent anti-American views get spewed in the Arab press? Is it OK for many Arabs and Muslims to idolize Osama Bin Laden? Is it OK for a significant part of the Arab and Muslim populations to have these views? And yet at the same time whenever an American expresses concern or wariness about the intentions of some of these people, we are the bigots. We have Muslims like you ignore the sickness of your own homeland and scream about terrible we are. You rail about how oppressive it is for a Muslim living in America because they might be scrutinized slightly, yet I don't hear you crying for those tourists murdered in Bali. Double standard? Because I despise your government, and the fundamentalist bloc of conservative mentality that rules that government with an iron fist does not make me a bigot. I don't indiscriminately distrust Americans, or Protestants for that matter. It's one thing to distrust a country's government. It's another to insult an entire religion based on irrational phobia.My reasons to despise the American government is political, not personal; like your "distrust" of 1/5 of the entire human race. I am strongly opposed to the American government, both Republican and Democratic parties. The members of the U.S. Communist Party were loyal to the USSR. Source? The USSR was hostile to the U.S. See above the tenets of Communism, which quite bluntly call for the overthrow of all capitalist economies and non-Communist governments. Need I say more... link? It has been extinguished for the most part (Thank God). Cuba is a non-factor, North Korea is a freaky zombie state (although with nukes it appears), and China is apparently moving towards more market and personal freedoms. So, North Korea has nukes and it's not a problem?  And as for China, la de da it's permitting economic freedom... currently China is on the verge of throwing the world into further instability with a potential all out martial rule of Taiwan.I don't know. But, I know I will keep my eye on them. And thanks to cats like you, they in return feel the need to keep an eye you... "Clash of Cultures" Randal... think about it; nevermind, that's asking for too much. I'm not saying you don't have the right to be a bigot. I'm a Left Libertarian, I believe people have the right to say whatever they want, including the incitation of violence, other crimes, and hate speech. I'm just calling out ignorance when I see it. And you're chalk full of that my friend. --------------------
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RandalFlagg Stranger Registered: 06/15/02 Posts: 15,608 |
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http://www.thecouriermail.news.c FORTY-seven Iraqis were killed and more than 80 wounded in a suicide bombing at a Shiite funeral in Mosul overnight, hospitals said, as the frontrunners in last month's elections raced to finalise a deal on a new governing coalition. And, I was not only referring to Iraq. I was also referring to the multitude of Islamic terrorist actions in other areas of the world that intentionally and viciously targeted innocent people.
I don?t give a shit how desperate they are. You don?t shoot little kids in the back as they run in terror. If they would have shot soldiers or officials, then I would not have a problem with it.
Did you see the IRA hacking people?s heads off and murdering young children? Do you see the IRA operating on every continent? The Ireland situation is in one area. Muslim extremists are in MANY areas, they are numerous, they perform many terrorist acts, and they kill many people.
You have the gall to compare a tiny little number of nutballs who did a few attacks on Women?s Clinics to the thousands upon thousands of active and well-funded Muslim extremists in the world and their thousands (if not millions) of sympathizers? Muslim extremism is a MUCH bigger problem.
America is ruled with an iron fist..? It?s more like every Arab and Muslim country is ruled with an iron fist.
I remember reading several of your posts where you openly praised the 9/11 attacks. If you (and a lot of your fellow Muslims) are openly agreeing with, sympathizing with, or praising actions like this, it is quite possible that your community could spawn people who are looking to murder my countrymen or provide support to those who do. What is wrong with recognizing this and being wary? It is not bigotry. It is common sense. My reason to distrust Muslims and their intentions is not personal. It is a valid response to a group of people that seem to be hostile to my people and my country. I merely examine reality and respond accordingly.
It is not an irrational phobia to distrust a group of people that consistently produces terrorists, extremism, and people who vow your destruction.
During the period of Stalinist domination of world communism (1929-1953), communist parties across the globe fell more and more under the influence of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union and its leader, Joseph Stalin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Com
That the breakdown of relations was a direct result of Stalin's violation of the Yalta accords, the imposition of Soviet-dominated governments on an unwilling Eastern Europe, Soviet intransigence, and aggressive Soviet expansionism. This view is generally shared by historians from the Soviet-occupied Eastern Europe. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Col
?We'll ask the man, where do you stand on the question of the revolution? Are you for it or against it? If he's against it, we'll stand him up against a wall.? - V.I. Lenin http://www.chagala.com/ibaffairs
Yes, it is a problem. I never said it wasn?t.
What do I have to think about? There are a lot of Muslims out there who hate my country and my culture. Some of them are actively trying to kill me. Many Muslims are sympathetic to this. That is the simple truth and you know it. What is terrible about being concerned about this? Should I ignore my self-defense in order to appear ?enlightened? and ?progressive?? Fuck that. This is where you and I differ: I am willing to examine my government?s actions and admit mistakes. You seem incapable of examining the rampant extremism present in your religion and you seem incapable of criticizing your more murderous brothers.
Go ahead and keep an eye on us. Do you see American civilians orchestrating intentional mass murder of civilians? Do you see Americans cutting people?s heads off and screaming, ?God is Great?? Do you see American zealots killing themselves in order to perpetrate attacks on civilians? Do you see Americans taking people off of buses and gunning them down on the side of the road? Do you see Americans kidnapping and murdering children? Do you see Americans invading compounds and going from room to room murdering Muslims? These are all things that extremist Muslims have done. I have every right to be appalled and worried about behavior like that. Go ahead and keep an eye on us. We have much more to fear from the extremist ilk of your religion than you have to fear from us.
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zahudulallah Sexual Heretic Registered: 10/21/04 Posts: 10,579 Loc: Tokyo, Japan Last seen: 21 years, 5 months |
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Auto-SummaryA suicide bombing at a Shiite funeral in Mosul killed 47 and wounded over 80, highlighting the ongoing violence and extremism in the region. The post argues that Muslim extremism is a far greater threat than past incidents, citing the numerous attacks by Muslim extremists worldwide. It questions the lack of condemnation of American government actions and highlights perceived hypocrisy in addressing Muslim extremism. The author expresses distrust towards Muslims due to perceived hostility and a desire for self-defense, contrasting it with the perceived support for extremist actions by some Americans. http://www.thecouriermail.news.c FORTY-seven Iraqis were killed and more than 80 wounded in a suicide bombing at a Shiite funeral in Mosul overnight, hospitals said, as the frontrunners in last month's elections raced to finalise a deal on a new governing coalition. And, I was not only referring to Iraq. I was also referring to the multitude of Islamic terrorist actions in other areas of the world that intentionally and viciously targeted innocent people. How is this any different from Protestant/Catholic violence? Oh wait, there is none. (See dictionary: ignorance) I don?t give a shit how desperate they are. You don?t shoot little kids in the back as they run in terror. If they would have shot soldiers or officials, then I would not have a problem with it. Who cares, the terrorists who carried out the Beslan attack are now dead. If anyone tried to guilt trip me in person about Beslan and my religion, I would spit in his face. Did you see the IRA hacking people?s heads off and murdering young children? Do you see the IRA operating on every continent? The Ireland situation is in one area. Muslim extremists are in MANY areas, they are numerous, they perform many terrorist acts, and they kill many people. Actually, several children were killed in IRA attacks over the years. You have the gall to compare a tiny little number of nutballs who did a few attacks on Women?s Clinics to the thousands upon thousands of active and well-funded Muslim extremists in the world and their thousands (if not millions) of sympathizers? Muslim extremism is a MUCH bigger problem. If Islamic extremism is such a big problem, when and where was the last American civilian killed by a terrorist? I... Ir... Ira.... America is ruled with an iron fist..? It?s more like every Arab and Muslim country is ruled with an iron fist. And they're backed by the good ole U.S. of A. I remember reading several of your posts where you openly praised the 9/11 attacks. If you (and a lot of your fellow Muslims) are openly agreeing with, sympathizing with, or praising actions like this, it is quite possible that your community could spawn people who are looking to murder my countrymen or provide support to those who do. What is wrong with recognizing this and being wary? It is not bigotry. It is common sense. My reason to distrust Muslims and their intentions is not personal. It is a valid response to a group of people that seem to be hostile to my people and my country. I merely examine reality and respond accordingly. What's real insulting is that you associate people like me, and other peace loving Muslims with fucking CHILD KILLERS. What the fuck is wrong with you? It is not an irrational phobia to distrust a group of people that consistently produces terrorists, extremism, and people who vow your destruction. How is this different from murderous western diatribes that interfere with geopolitics? Oh wait, it isn't different. You're just on the side with the bomb. What's troubling is that you probably couldn't even manage a friendship with a Muslim, because your benighted cultural pride disguised in 'security' would be too apparent. Oh Muslims Here is where you come into the picture, Randal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mor During the period of Stalinist domination of world communism (1929-1953), communist parties across the globe fell more and more under the influence of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union and its leader, Joseph Stalin. http://en.wikiped Does Communist Party USA have the right to exist in your eyes, or not? Yes, it is a problem. I never said it wasn?t. Perhaps you would like to enlighten us why Iraq was invaded, who was only suspected of being illegally armed, and not North Korea, which has openly admitted it is illegally armed by the standards of the international community. What do I have to think about? There are a lot of Muslims out there who hate my country and my culture. Some of them are actively trying to kill me. Many Muslims are sympathetic to this. That is the simple truth and you know it. What is terrible about being concerned about this? Should I ignore my self-defense in order to appear ?enlightened? and ?progressive?? Fuck that. How vain can you be? How benighted can you be? You sound like an old lady in the middle of Nowhere, Idaho ranting on how so and so "might be a terrorist". It has to be the most dumbfounding phenomena among Americans since they were taught to hide under desks during a nuclear bomb attack. My reason to distrust Muslims and their intentions is not personal. It is a valid response to a group of people that seem to be hostile to my people and my country. I merely examine reality and respond accordingly. Your country is the Meth tweaker of the world, hence witch hunting to the point where the Peace Train man himself can't enter the country. This is where you and I differ: I am willing to examine my government?s actions and admit mistakes. You seem incapable of examining the rampant extremism present in your religion and you seem incapable of criticizing your more murderous brothers. Why do you call them my "brothers"? I have nothing in common with Muslim orthodoxy. Go ahead and keep an eye on us. Do you see American civilians orchestrating intentional mass murder of civilians? Do you see Americans cutting people?s heads off and screaming, ?God is Great?? Do you see American zealots killing themselves in order to perpetrate attacks on civilians? Do you see Americans taking people off of buses and gunning them down on the side of the road? Do you see Americans kidnapping and murdering children? Do you see Americans invading compounds and going from room to room murdering Muslims? These are all things that extremist Muslims have done. I have every right to be appalled and worried about behavior like that. You clearly have no concept whatsoever of geopolitics. America is not being occupied. America wasn't invaded. America isn't being bombed on a weekly basis. Americans are not being subjected to a war torn country, and lastly Americans have little to complain about as they were also in the business of stealing land. In the world of "Culture Clashing" Randal, the mentality that many Americans have to "Support our troops," is comparable to the Muslims who offer their moral support to the young men who are fighting as insurgents. Go ahead and keep an eye on us. We have much more to fear from the extremist ilk of your religion than you have to fear from us. Grow up, you self righteous American. --------------------
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RandalFlagg Stranger Registered: 06/15/02 Posts: 15,608 |
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It is more of a concern because Islamic extremists are more numerous and much more active than Christian extremists are. Also, Christians are not trying to attack my country and kill my fellow citizens. Extremist Muslims are.
It is yet one more example (among many) of the militancy of many Muslims.
My concern is not only for Americans, but also other people. Extremist Muslims have intentionally targeted and killed many civilians around the world. The last time an American civilian was killed by an Islamic extremist? I?m not too sure. Maybe it was on May 12, 2003 when this happened: (CBS) Attackers shot their way into three housing compounds in synchronized strikes in the Saudi capital and then set off multiple suicide car bombs, killing at least 91 people, including seven Americans, officials reported Tuesday. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/05/13/world/main553649.shtml
Syria isn?t backed by the U.S. Iran isn?t backed by the U.S. They are still dictatorships. I have little hope for Arabs and Muslims to get their societies and governments in order. I certainly hope I am wrong. Yes, the U.S. government does give money and weapons to a significant amount of Muslim and Arab governments. I don?t think it should do that. I think we should let that part of the world rot like the cesspool that it seems to be.
I associate you with them because you seem to have sympathy for them, you barely chastise them when they commit blatant murder, and you have a lot of the same vitriol and hatreds that they do. You and 99% of your fellow Muslims might have never set off a bomb or shot an ?infidel? civilian, but I see ample support (direct and indirect) for these people. By the way, if you are "peace-loving" why do you seem to exhibit sympathy or flat-out support for terrorist attacks on the U.S. (as can be evidenced by your past support of 9/11)?
I can understand Muslim wariness about the U.S. government and its intentions. Why can?t you understand my wariness about a group of people that consistently produces terrorists and support for terrorists? You and your fellow Muslims have every right to keep an eye on us. And we have every right to keep an eye on you.
Thank God I am on the side of the bomb. I shudder to think of a Middle Eastern theocracy or dictatorship with nuclear weapons.
Cultural pride? How dare you accuse me of cultural pride when you are an obvious extremist apologist who said earlier in the thread ?I hate most of American culture?. Is that the pot calling the kettle black?
It has the right to exist. You can say and think whatever you want in this country. But, if your affiliations and beliefs indicate you support the murder of civilians and destruction of the social order, then you should be watched.
Why I think Iraq was invaded: 1. Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD). The intelligence agencies (domestic and foreign) thought Saddam had them. It appears as if he did not. The intelligence community fucked up. 2. To reduce our reliance on troublesome Saudi Arabia. If we could establish a friendly government in Iraq, we would not have to be close allies with the Saudis. 3. To alleviate the suffering of the Iraqi people. As long as Saddam was in power, he would not obey the resolutions levied against him which means the sanctions would have stayed in effect indefinitely. As long as the sanctions were in effect, Iraqis would have continued to starve and die. 4. To get troops on the borders of Iran and Syria as a warning. Both of these countries blatantly support Islamic extremists. 5. To help build and spread democracy throughout the Middle East. If the Arabs could become free, they would not be as mad anymore. If they are not as mad they will be less likely to adopt militant attitudes and therefore would be less likely to engage in terrorist acts. 6. To save Iraq?s oil fields. Because of the sanctions, the Iraqis could not get the proper equipment to maintain their oil fields. If oil fields are not maintained, the oil that can be retrieved from them decreases until they are ruined. Every day that went by, Iraq was losing national wealth because of that. If the oil fields can be properly maintained, the wealth will still be there for the Iraqis and it will also stabilize world oil supplies. 7. With Saddam gone the U.S. government can pull troops out of Saudi Arabia without looking wimpy. Having American troops in Saudi Arabia (which houses the holiest sites of Islam) is one of the main reasons that Muslims hate the U.S. 8. The Middle East is notorious for inspiring cultures that respect power. By taking out a blatantly hostile leader, we send a message to the Middle East in general??Don?t mess with us?. Why I think North Korea is not being invaded: 1. The North Koreans have artillery aimed at Seoul. Hundreds of thousands of civilians would be killed instantly if North Korea let loose with these guns.
It is a ?dumbfounding phenomena?? You still refuse to acknowledge that there are many Muslims in the world who hate the U.S. You refuse to acknowledge that some of these Muslims make efforts to kill American citizens. Not only is 9/11 an obvious example, but there are more examples: The Los Angeles International Airport bombing plot A man named Ahmed Ressam, an Algerian living in Canada, planned to bomb Los Angeles International Airport in Los Angeles, California, United States. He was arrested at the United States-Canada border in Port Angeles, Washington after crossing by ferry on December 14, 1999. Customs officials then found nitroglycerin and four timing devices concealed in a spare tire well of his automobile. He and three other Algerians stood trial for the crime. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_millennium_attack_plots 1993 World Trade Center Bombing A Kuwaiti man named Ramzi Yousef began in 1991 to plan a bombing attack within the United States. Six people were killed. At least 1,040 others were injured. However, the towers were not destroyed as Yousef envisioned. Yousef escaped to Pakistan several hours later. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center_bombing
Because you express sympathy and support for them. You seem to have many of the same basic beliefs. You also seem to be an apologist that refuses to even seriously examine or condemn the rampant extremism that is prevalent amongst Arabs and Muslims.
What?s wrong? Can?t debate intelligently and you need to resort to insults?
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Asante Big Moissanite shill  Registered: 02/06/02 Posts: 92,968 |
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You're not a fascist. You are misled by the media  You have never met those people. Never spoken a word with them. Yet you want to horribly torture them into death because of the image you have that was imposed on you by a propaganda campaign. If you were to discuss international politics with Bin Laden over a hamburger at McDonalds (I'm going for full political incorrectness now  ) you would likely be strongly impressed by his capacity to reason and the logic and perfect sense in his point of view. If you were to do the same with Bush (or, well, his advisor  ) you would come away equally impressed.I've seen a subtitled speech by Sassam Hussein and I'm sorry to say but in many aspects he came across as a reasonable and pretty intelligent person. I like to think Bush is alot smarter than he looks. But somehow these bright charismatic people incite people to radicalize and kill eachother. They strive for power and wealth and have little problems with the fact that many die for them on either side. Now look at your anger:
You are calling for a lynching mob.
You want to legalize the practices of Guantanamo and Al Graib (?)
You get violent fantasies to personally mentally and physically torture them to the death. You're pretty frustrated about it all, so frustrated that if you were a president of a mideast country.. you would be Saddam, Uday and Osama all rolled into one. Your crimes would abolish democracy. Think about it. Disarm your mind. Don't let the radicals win. Stop hating and start thinking. 
-------------------- personal empowerment for the world Onehomemission.org truly make a difference
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zahudulallah Sexual Heretic Registered: 10/21/04 Posts: 10,579 Loc: Tokyo, Japan Last seen: 21 years, 5 months |
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Auto-SummaryThis forum post argues against sympathizing with Islamic extremists, citing numerous examples of their violent actions worldwide, such as the 2003 Saudi compound attacks and the 9/11 attacks. The author criticizes the perception that Muslims as a whole are to blame for terrorist acts and suggests that the U.S. should not support Muslim or Arab governments due to their militancy and lack of societal progress. The post also touches on geopolitical motivations for U.S. involvement in the Middle East, including oil interests and the desire to promote democracy. The author concludes by asserting that sympathizing with terrorists is akin to supporting their violent actions and extremism. It is more of a concern because Islamic extremists are more numerous and much more active than Christian extremists are. Also, Christians are not trying to attack my country and kill my fellow citizens. Extremist Muslims are. How many Islamic extremists are there, Mr. Statician? It is yet one more example (among many) of the militancy of many Muslims. It has to do with the militancy of human beings in certain certain situations. It has nothing to do with Islam anymore than poverty has something to do with being black. My concern is not only for Americans, but also other people. Extremist Muslims have intentionally targeted and killed many civilians around the world. The last time an American civilian was killed by an Islamic extremist? I?m not too sure. Maybe it was on May 12, 2003 when this happened: (CBS) Attackers shot their way into three housing compounds in synchronized strikes in the Saudi capital and then set off multiple suicide car bombs, killing at least 91 people, including seven Americans, officials reported Tuesday. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/05/13/world/main553649.shtml Why do most people in other countries that have been hit by Al Qaeda don't share your views? Look at Spain for example. Syria isn?t backed by the U.S. Iran isn?t backed by the U.S. They are still dictatorships. I have little hope for Arabs and Muslims to get their societies and governments in order. I certainly hope I am wrong. Yes, the U.S. government does give money and weapons to a significant amount of Muslim and Arab governments. I don?t think it should do that. I think we should let that part of the world rot like the cesspool that it seems to be. And what does Syria, a wild card dictatorship like many others outside the Muslim world - have to do with the Muslim religion per say? Need I not mention the U.S. backed KINGDOM of SAUDI ARABIA?! I associate you with them because you seem to have sympathy for them, you barely chastise them when they commit blatant murder, and you have a lot of the same vitriol and hatreds that they do. You and 99% of your fellow Muslims might have never set off a bomb or shot an ?infidel? civilian, but I see ample support (direct and indirect) for these people. By the way, if you are "peace-loving" why do you seem to exhibit sympathy or flat-out support for terrorist attacks on the U.S. (as can be evidenced by your past support of 9/11)? This is your damn problem: I try to seperate the Muslim religion from acts of terror and murder, and you try to accuse me of having sympathy for them? How does this make sense, Randal? I can understand Muslim wariness about the U.S. government and its intentions. Why can?t you understand my wariness about a group of people that consistently produces terrorists and support for terrorists? You and your fellow Muslims have every right to keep an eye on us. And we have every right to keep an eye on you. Are you saying that Muslims somehow "create" terrorists? Who is doing the creating here? Are you saying terrorists have no free will because their culture/religion created them? Huh? What was that? Did you say something, Randal? Thank God I am on the side of the bomb. I shudder to think of a Middle Eastern theocracy or dictatorship with nuclear weapons. You don't have the bomb, Randal. You're a citizen in a country whose government has the bomb - a government which you blindly revere as a spearhead in your own personal opinions. Cultural pride? How dare you accuse me of cultural pride when you are an obvious extremist apologist who said earlier in the thread ?I hate most of American culture?. Is that the pot calling the kettle black? The only pride I have is faggot pride. Whassup ma Nizzle? It has the right to exist. You can say and think whatever you want in this country. But, if your affiliations and beliefs indicate you support the murder of civilians and destruction of the social order, then you should be watched. "Watching" was hardly what McCarthyism was about. 1. Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD). The intelligence agencies (domestic and foreign) thought Saddam had them. It appears as if he did not. The intelligence community fucked up. Some of that intelligence was a downright fraud - i.e., the uranium claim regarding Niger. 2. To reduce our reliance on troublesome Saudi Arabia. If we could establish a friendly government in Iraq, we would not have to be close allies with the Saudis. Please remind me again Randal, why the United States has such a strong reliance on Saudi Arabia? 3. To alleviate the suffering of the Iraqi people. As long as Saddam was in power, he would not obey the resolutions levied against him which means the sanctions would have stayed in effect indefinitely. As long as the sanctions were in effect, Iraqis would have continued to starve and die. Ah I see. Punish the people for their ruler. 5. To help build and spread democracy throughout the Middle East. If the Arabs could become free, they would not be as mad anymore. If they are not as mad they will be less likely to adopt militant attitudes and therefore would be less likely to engage in terrorist acts. Then why invade the dozen other dictatorships around the world. Oh wait, they don't have anything resourceful to offer... 6. To save Iraq?s oil fields. Because of the sanctions, the Iraqis could not get the proper equipment to maintain their oil fields. If oil fields are not maintained, the oil that can be retrieved from them decreases until they are ruined. Every day that went by, Iraq was losing national wealth because of that. If the oil fields can be properly maintained, the wealth will still be there for the Iraqis and it will also stabilize world oil supplies. Did you just say "oil"? Gee, I wonder what use third worlders could have for that. 7. With Saddam gone the U.S. government can pull troops out of Saudi Arabia without looking wimpy. Having American troops in Saudi Arabia (which houses the holiest sites of Islam) is one of the main reasons that Muslims hate the U.S. What you're saying is that 3,000 people died because the U.S. government didn't want to look wimpy. Good one, Randal! 8. The Middle East is notorious for inspiring cultures that respect power. By taking out a blatantly hostile leader, we send a message to the Middle East in general??Don?t mess with us?. Even Babel Fish couldn't dilute the imperialism of such a statement. 1. The North Koreans have artillery aimed at Seoul. Hundreds of thousands of civilians would be killed instantly if North Korea let loose with these guns. Oh it's alot more economic than that, Randal... It is a ?dumbfounding phenomena?? You still refuse to acknowledge that there are many Muslims in the world who hate the U.S. You refuse to acknowledge that some of these Muslims make efforts to kill American citizens. Not only is 9/11 an obvious example, but there are more examples: The Los Angeles International Airport bombing plot A man named Ahmed Ressam, an Algerian living in Canada, planned to bomb Los Angeles International Airport in Los Angeles, California, United States. He was arrested at the United States-Canada border in Port Angeles, Washington after crossing by ferry on December 14, 1999. Customs officials then found nitroglycerin and four timing devices concealed in a spare tire well of his automobile. He and three other Algerians stood trial for the crime. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_millennium_attack_plots 1993 World Trade Center Bombing A Kuwaiti man named Ramzi Yousef began in 1991 to plan a bombing attack within the United States. Six people were killed. At least 1,040 others were injured. However, the towers were not destroyed as Yousef envisioned. Yousef escaped to Pakistan several hours later. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center_bombing Alot of people hate America, Randal. The vast majority of Europeans, libertarians, liberals, etc. scattered through out the world hate the United States of America. Much of the planet is definately not ont he side of the United States. Are they with the terrorists, Randal? Because you express sympathy and support for them. You seem to have many of the same basic beliefs. You also seem to be an apologist that refuses to even seriously examine or condemn the rampant extremism that is prevalent amongst Arabs and Muslims. I do not express sympathy and support for them. They are frankly just as rigid and stupid as the Christian fundamentalists who cheerlead the invasion of Iraq. I am a Libertarian. I believe the rights of the individual. I believe that law abiding Muslims and Arabs owe shit all to whatever state they live in. Furthermore, you foolishly mentioned "Arabs" in that statement. Do you what people are called who attempt to link a criminal problem to a race? Racists, Randal!!! Nice Freudian slip. What?s wrong? Can?t debate intelligently and you need to resort to insults? People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, Randal. --------------------
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Phred Fred's son Registered: 10/19/00 Posts: 12,949 Loc: Dominican Republ Last seen: 11 years, 9 months |
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While you two are going at it hammer and tongs, let me toss in a few comments:
Zahid writes: How many Islamic extremists are there, Mr. Statician? More than enough to make Muslim countries the largest current producers of murdering terrorists by at least an order of magnitude. Why do most people in other countries that have been hit by Al Qaeda don't share your views? Perhaps because most of the people in those other countries (Spain excluded) are Muslims themselves? And what does Syria, a wild card dictatorship like many others outside the Muslim world - have to do with the Muslim religion per say? Why do you call it a "wild card"? Name for us the Muslim countries run by elected leaders (and no, Iran doesn't count), then compare that number to the number of Muslim countries run by unelected leaders. If it is the norm, it can't simultaneously be a "wild card". Are you saying that Muslims somehow "create" terrorists? Who is doing the creating here? Are you saying terrorists have no free will because their culture/religion created them? I can't speak for Randall, but I will say Muslims do indeed create terrorists. Bi0 agrees with me on that one as well -- probably the only thing we do agree on. Some of that intelligence was a downright fraud - i.e., the uranium claim regarding Niger. So sorry, Zahid, but the uranium claim turned out to be true after all. Both the US Senate Intelligence Report and the English Commission looking into the same thing found that Joe Wilson's claims were in fact the fraudulent ones. Iraqi agents had bought uranium ore from Niger pre-Gulf War I (which no one disputed) and did attempt to buy it again. Look it up. Ah I see. Punish the people for their ruler. No... liberate them from that ruler. Then why invade the dozen other dictatorships around the world. I presume you meant to ask, "Why not invade the dozen other dictatorships around the world." Are you advocating the invasion of every (there isn't a dozen, there are several dozen) dictatorship in the world by a coalition of nations, then? If so, why are you upset that Iraq was the first on the list? If not, what's your point? What you're saying is that 3,000 people died because the U.S. government didn't want to look wimpy. No, 3,000 Americans died because Islamic murderers exhibited poor impulse control. Alot of people hate America, Randal. The vast majority of Europeans, libertarians, liberals, etc. scattered through out the world hate the United States of America. This is true. And (again speaking for myself rather than Randall) I literally couldn't give two shits that they do. Let them hate all they want. It's when they start acting out that hate through murdering civilians that I have a problem. The ones doing that are overwhelmingly Muslim. I do not express sympathy and support for them. Not this week, no. You have in the past. Nor have you condemned them. If you want people to believe you are actually neutral on the issue you'll have to do some long distance hypnosis of the readers of your posts. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, Randal. I haven't seen Randall insult you in this thread. I have seen you insult him. You've been here long enough to know that's against forum rules. Clean up your act or stop posting in this thread, please. Next flame I see -- from anyone in this thread -- will result in a ban. Phred --------------------
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zappaisgod horrid asshole  Registered: 02/11/04 Posts: 81,741 Loc: Fractallife's gy Last seen: 10 years, 4 months |
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April 8, 2005 http://abcnews.go.com/Internatio
Meth tweaker???? What the fuck are you going on about? Fuck Yusuf anyway. He left under his own volition and had nothing good to say about the nation that made him wealthy. He has no "right of return" and if you and he don't like it, well, I don't give a shit. He can spend the rest of his days anywhere he is welcome. That isn't here. He has renounced his citizenship and I say to him and any others who choose to do so, "Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out." I don't think we need anybody else who fucks animals here either. We have enough perverts already. -------------------- 
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BanJankri FreefallerUpward  Registered: 07/27/04 Posts: 1,392 Last seen: 18 years, 6 months |
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yes you are.
-------------------- Just let everything flow, just flow right to the center of everything. You gotta turn off your mind and relax, and then just float downstream...
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