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lucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness
Registered: 03/29/03
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Terrible Chronic Burning & Freezing sensation
#3960224 - 03/23/05 03:08 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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If people here still remember me, I took shrooms once in my life about 2 years ago and had a HELLISH trip (literally) which threw me into a nightmarish Depression with frequent and many times constant panic attacks. As terrible and debilitating as this was, over the last 4 months I've had an unbearable chronic burning and freezing sensation all over my body *all* the time. The best I can describe it is that it feels like "Bengay" or "Tiger Balm" or some of those muscle pain patches, except that it's 1000 times more intense. My body feels like it's on fire and on ice at the same time. I can barely do anything anymore (even typing). The sensation isn't brought about by anything but rather is constantly there any time I'm concious (even if I wake up in the middle of the night). Anyone experienced anything like this ? I had this feeling after I took the shrooms and it recurred often over the last 2 years but never as bad and as constant as it's been over the last 4 months. I'm on Celexa (SSRI) and very low doses of Valium (and my script will run out soon. My Panic and Depression is just as bad as it's been over the last 2 years (altho I have had very very brief periods when I've been able to laugh and even had a good time at OTD at the shroomery), but this constant burning/freezing is unbearable. My doc sez he has no idea and that it *might* be psychological (they did a few blood tests on me and said they were ok).
-------------------- "no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,062
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Re: Terrible Chronic Burning & Freezing sensation [Re: lucid]
#3960691 - 03/23/05 04:23 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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my best bet would be acupuncture. get an authentic chinese herbalist and acupuncturist to look at you. I don't think you need to talk about mushroom or anything, he will know from your pulse what to do.
obviously you can live with it but you are not gonna just sit around. personally I don't know what it is.
-------------------- _ 🧠_
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40oz
Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 30,119
Loc: Sandy Eggo. Ca.
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Re: Terrible Chronic Burning & Freezing sensation [Re: lucid]
#3960710 - 03/23/05 04:28 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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maybe if you stop believing something is wrong with you, all your problems will dissappear. you had a bad shroom trip, we've all had them. life goes on bro. evolve already.
-------------------- - - - - tiny_rabid_birds said: "your avatar is dirty."
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JacquesCousteau
Being.
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Re: Terrible Chronic Burning & Freezing sensation [Re: lucid]
#3960759 - 03/23/05 04:41 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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Hi Lucid.
I know that last time I wasn't able to help you... and I know you have written off psychedelics completely.
But... it seems you are living in a psychological hell, and have tried just about everything to get out.
I just wanted to say, once again, that I think the solution to your problem is to face your fear. That means tripping again, and letting go of yourself.
When you've gotten so frustrated (with enduring your life) that you truly don't care if you live or die, what have you got to lose? What is there to fear? There is nothing.
Maybe you're still not ready to hear this, but let me just say this:
If you ever reach the day where life seems too worthless to go on, do yourself a favor and face your fears. Before you do anything rash to escape the torment that has become your life, take an 8th of mushrooms and accept everything thrown at you. Face the great void that assaults you, and walk straight into it. Accept it. Embrace it as your destiny.
"Whatever may be, may be."
Fighting what you perceive to be frightening or scary inside your own head is what got you to where you are.
The opposite is to embrace and accept what you perceive to be frightening inside your own head.
Once again, this is only my opinion... and I really wish the best for you.
To me, you've always seemed a good person... One who is buckling under the weight of an extremely heavy load.
I pray that you'll put it down before it crushes you.
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lucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness
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Re: Terrible Chronic Burning & Freezing sensation [Re: 40oz]
#3960774 - 03/23/05 04:44 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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Intellectually, I understand what you're saying 40 OZ, but my pain is very very REAL. I feel it 24/7. It's not like I think about someone thing which triggers the pain. It's always there and actually getting worse gradually. Before it would come and go, but now I've had it intensely for 4 months. I can barely do anything in such chronic pain.
-------------------- "no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."
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BloodNOil
Captain Zeep
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Re: Terrible Chronic Burning & Freezing sensation [Re: JacquesCousteau]
#3960807 - 03/23/05 04:52 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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Quote:
JacquesCousteau said: I just wanted to say, once again, that I think the solution to your problem is to face your fear. That means tripping again, and letting go of yourself.
I was just going to post this. Seriously.
Whatever damage has occurred to your psyche occurred in a psychedelic state. Therefore, your best bet is to return to that state and allow it to resolve itself.
That said, don't dive recklessly into it (I don't think this will be a problem). Do it with someone you trust in a safe and orderly environment. Spend a couple days cleaning whatever place you might choose. Avoid outside stimulus and see if you can understand what is bothering you. In all the literature I've read, once you understand the problem it will go away and you'll be a better person for it.
To prepare yourself, I recommend reading "The Psychedelic Experience" by Doctor Timothy Leary. In his book, the good doctor explains in great detail the nature of a psychedelic trip, and gives expert advice to "travelers." I found it at Barnes & Noble, but you might check it out from your local library or buy it online. There's a copy of it floating around the Internet, but I prefer books in hard copy.
Edit: Before experimenting with mind-altering drugs, talk to a neurologist to see if you have an unrelated neural problem. Your general practitioner didn't find anything, but a specialist might know something special.
-------------------- It's like a koala bear crapped a rainbow in my brain!
Edited by BloodNOil (03/23/05 04:55 PM)
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lucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness
Registered: 03/29/03
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Re: Terrible Chronic Burning & Freezing sensation [Re: BloodNOil]
#3960880 - 03/23/05 05:10 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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Hey JC & BN, trying shooms again seems like "trying" suicide...I mean I just feel that it's something destructive that could be permanent. No one "recovers" from suicide so I feel that experimenting with shrooms in my current state of mind would be irrecoverably deadly (not to say that I'm recovering now - or that I know of any way in which I could recover). I feel the famous "what's the worst that could happen" phrase is quite loaded - going to Hell and being in eternal torment is the worst that could happen ...and that's quite Horrible !
-------------------- "no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."
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BloodNOil
Captain Zeep
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Re: Terrible Chronic Burning & Freezing sensation [Re: BloodNOil]
#3960904 - 03/23/05 05:16 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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Not to double post, but I think my previous one is a little old to edit by now. This second post is in no way an attack, but Lucid, I've read some of your other posts, and all you talk about is events. You're good at explaining how such-and-such misfortune found you, followed by this or that part of your life crashing down on you. But what's missing is how you feel about your experiences.
You say that before your bad trip, you were always a happy person. Did you feel the whole spectrum of emotion during that time? Or did you suppress those emotions and smile?
You say that you've seen doctors, and that their pills and blood tests and et cetera don't help you. Why not find someone with whom you can share all these bad emotions that you may or may not be keeping to yourself? Why not talk to a friend, or if you don't trust any of those people, talk to a psychologist (as opposed to a psychiatrist)? Don't be afraid to collapse into tears -- most people would in your situation.
DISCLAIMER DISCLAIMER DISCLAIMER
I am not a doctor. My opinion is just that: my opinion. My impression of you may or may not reflect reality, but it's something to seriously think about.
edit: This is what I'm talking about:
"I was always a happy kid too despite family troubles." "I remained happy through seemingly terrible times" "I always used to wonder why people get depressed " "I thought that people just need to "be happy"."
There's a difference between dwelling on the negative and expressing yourself. No, I'm not going to cheapen this with a smiley.
-------------------- It's like a koala bear crapped a rainbow in my brain!
Edited by BloodNOil (03/23/05 05:22 PM)
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lucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness
Registered: 03/29/03
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Re: Terrible Chronic Burning & Freezing sensation [Re: BloodNOil]
#3961114 - 03/23/05 06:01 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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Hi BN, I understand what you're saying, but I'm being completely honest. I feel like a completely diff person. I really was happy. And to clarify, I DID cry and get "sad" in the past, but Never "depressed". When my wife left me I was sad and even cried, but I still loved music and biking and dancing and my job etc, and still "felt" the same. Now there is nothing that interests me and I "feel" constantly in pain (burning, freezing, spaced and confused, tired and yet jittery, can't sleep etc). I have collapsed into tears before and also during my depression and several times recently. I've seen a therapist for a year - who then gave up on me. I've spoken with family and the few remaining friends that I have, but they've all gotten sick of me... and I can tell that people here are sick of me too...heck I don't blame them, I'm sick of me...sick of being in pain all the time...
-------------------- "no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."
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lucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness
Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
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Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
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Re: Terrible Chronic Burning & Freezing sensation [Re: lucid]
#3961126 - 03/23/05 06:05 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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sorry if I sound bitter and jaded, but chronic pain tends to do that
-------------------- "no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."
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BloodNOil
Captain Zeep
Registered: 10/08/03
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Re: Terrible Chronic Burning & Freezing sensation [Re: BloodNOil]
#3961182 - 03/23/05 06:23 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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Once again, I've passed the edit window. (Yes, i know there's no edit window, but it's only polite)
I've found yet another detail that might be useful in your situation. This one comes from a paper published in1980 by an LSD psychotherapist.
In your first post, where you described your situation, you said that you went to the ER during your trip (This is for the benefit of other readers, mostly). The doctors there gave you Ativan, (a powerful tranquilizer of the benzodiazepine class) [rxlist], effectively cutting your trip short of its natural resolution. Doctor Stanislav Grof writes: (The most relevent part is bolded for your convenience)
" The only way to facilitate the completion and integration of an LSD session in which the experiential gestalt remains unfinished is to continue the uncovering work, with or without psychedelics. It is important to emphasize that the effect of LSD is essentially self-limited; the overwhelming majority of difficult psychedelic experiences reach a resolution quite spontaneously. Actually, those states that are most dramatic and stormy tend to have the best outcome. The use of tranquilizers in the middle of a psychedelic session is a grave error and may be harmful. It tends to prevent the natural resolution of the difficult emotional or psychosomatic gestalt and to "freeze" the experience in a negative phase. The only constructive approach is to provide basic protection to the subject, and support and facilitate the process; the least one can do is to not interfere with it. "
Doctor Grof also states in his paper that: "If properly handled, a painful and difficult LSD session can bring about an important therapeutic breakthrough. It can facilitate resolution of problems that have plagued the subject in subtle ways for many years and contaminated his or her everyday life. An unsuccessful session, however, is one in which difficult feelings begin to emerge, the subject does not fully surrender to the process and the gestalt remains unresolved."
SO, if you're still with me, consider this hypothesis:
Your bad trip might be described as the negative feelings of your life suddenly surfacing into your consciousness. That was understandably an unpleasant experience. Instead of sticking with it and experiencing your emotions for the first time, you panicked and ran from them, but you have found that they now follow you wherever you go. The only way to put those emotions to rest is to stop and experience them. Let them catch up to you. Explore them and learn more about yourself. It will probably be painful, but pain is a part of life.
There are two ways to explore your emotions: With psychedelics and without. The choice is yours. If you feel that you must be forced to deal with them, then I recommend another trip. Otherwise, it's your responsibility to seek them out.
========Further Reading========= RXList entry for Ativan: http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/pharmclips2.cgi?keyword=%20Ativan%AE
Crisis Intervention in Situations Related to Unsupervised Use of Psychedelics Appendix I., LSD Psychotherapy: Hunter House Publishers, Alameda California. ?1980, 1994 by Stanislav Grof, M.D. http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/lsd/grof2.htm
Ediit again: You made your last two posts while I was writing this. Are you sure you've fully experienced your grief? I don't mean to be rude, but I don't believe you. p.s. Did your therapists have a reason to give up on you?
P.P.S. By "your first post" I was referring to your first post ever at the Shroomery http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...rue#Post1421156
-------------------- It's like a koala bear crapped a rainbow in my brain!
Edited by BloodNOil (03/23/05 06:37 PM)
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JacquesCousteau
Being.
Registered: 06/10/03
Posts: 7,825
Loc: Everywhere, Everytime.
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Re: Terrible Chronic Burning & Freezing sensation [Re: BloodNOil]
#3961215 - 03/23/05 06:30 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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Right on the money.
"Your bad trip might be described as the negative feelings of your life suddenly surfacing into your consciousness. That was understandably an unpleasant experience. Instead of sticking with it and experiencing your emotions for the first time, you panicked and ran from them, but you have found that they now follow you wherever you go. The only way to put those emotions to rest is to stop and experience them. Let them catch up to you. Explore them and learn more about yourself. It will probably be painful, but pain is a part of life."
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Kalix
'Head
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Re: Terrible Chronic Burning & Freezing sensation [Re: JacquesCousteau]
#3961231 - 03/23/05 06:34 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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Cannabis works great for chronic pain, and ussually makes me feel pretty darned good about myself
-------------------- My Unitarian Jihad Name is: The Shotgun of Sweet Reason
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lucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness
Registered: 03/29/03
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Loc: up on the bidet
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Re: Terrible Chronic Burning & Freezing sensation [Re: BloodNOil]
#3961258 - 03/23/05 06:41 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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Hey BN, Thanks for finding that article, I actually read it a couple of years ago when searching for help. But to clarify I went to the ER over 2 weeks after my bad trip (in fact I think it was a full month or more after - definitely more than 2 weeks after). I went cause I was having a panic attack and that's when they gave me Ativan - so, to reiterate, it was well after the trip. I've been to the ER twice after that, and was very badly treated, to the point where I'm now terrified of going to the hospital (once they gave me so much Valium and Haldol - an anti psychotic which acts as a Major Tranquilizer - that my bladder stopped functioning and I was in agonizing pain for about 4 or 5 days. And yes, that pain was worse than I'm in now, actually worst pain I've ever felt, but I knew it would get better in a matter of days, whereas now I've been in a lot of chronic pain for 4 months and it's really worn me down).
-------------------- "no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."
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BloodNOil
Captain Zeep
Registered: 10/08/03
Posts: 1,020
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Re: Terrible Chronic Burning & Freezing sensation [Re: lucid]
#3961316 - 03/23/05 06:54 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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Tranqs or not, you still ran.
Argue with me and quibble over the details all you want, I won't change my mind. My patience is coming to an end. You asked for help, and I gave you my honest opinion.
You asked for the wisdom of the Shroomery, and the wisdom has been spelled out for you with medical authority to back it up.
You have your answers. Whether or not you act on them is your choice and yours alone.
I'll leave you with one last suggestion. Seek out Doctor Grof and ask him for his advice, or to recommend a psychedelic therapist to see you. http://www.erowid.org/culture/characters/grof_stanislav/grof_stanislav.shtml
-------------------- It's like a koala bear crapped a rainbow in my brain!
Edited by BloodNOil (03/23/05 06:56 PM)
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lucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness
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Re: Terrible Chronic Burning & Freezing sensation [Re: BloodNOil]
#3961639 - 03/23/05 08:10 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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Hi BN, sorry if I offended u in any way, don't mean to "test your patience" at all. Just wanted to clarify the facts. Actually, I did contact Dr Grof and if I remember correctly he said he didn't know anyone in Montreal, but that I should try to find a psychologist who treats Panic Attacks which I did and she stopped seeing me after a year (cause, in her words, I wasn't getting any better and seemed to be getting worse).
-------------------- "no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."
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BloodNOil
Captain Zeep
Registered: 10/08/03
Posts: 1,020
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Re: Terrible Chronic Burning & Freezing sensation [Re: lucid]
#3961787 - 03/23/05 08:37 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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sorry i snapped at you, dude. I get a little irritable when my meds wear off. You left so suddenly that I thought I'd triggered you somehow and that you were out hanging yourself from a fire escape.
Don't give up on finding a psychedelic therapist in your area just because some old coot from Johns Hopkins doesn't know anyone personally who lives near you. There might be someone who Grof doesn't know, or you might have to travel.
Do your homework, find as many psychedelic specialists as you can and see if you can network with those guys to find someone reasonably close to you.
another insight: the people who still tolerate you are probably your \best friends for life. One of those people would probably make a good helper if you wanted to venture back into the abyss.
yes, the worst that could happen is that you might get worse. That's a risk you take when you meddle with ANYTHING. With most medical procedures, the worst that could happen is you could DIE. Just take the lessons you learned from the first trip (Did you trust your shaman man? Were you in an unfamiliar place? Did you somehow screw up the trip because you weren't prepared? (hint: yes.)) Remedy those problems and go straight back in! In all possibility, you'll have the worst time of your life and things will sort themselves out.
-------------------- It's like a koala bear crapped a rainbow in my brain!
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shroomydan
exshroomerite
Registered: 07/04/04
Posts: 4,126
Loc: In the woods
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Re: Terrible Chronic Burning & Freezing sensation [Re: lucid]
#3962008 - 03/23/05 09:16 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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Hi there lucid,
I didn't thoroughly read this entire thread, so someone may have already mentioned this, but the chronic burning sensation seems to point to a real neurological problem. I think I read somewhere about SSRI's causing this as a side effect in a few rare cases. If I were you I would stop taking the Celexa immediately. I personally think SSRI are bad drugs which will eventually go the way of Thalidomide, so I admit bias here.
Someone mentioned pot. This is a pretty benign drug which works wonders for chronic pain, but it can also make susceptible individuals crazy (panic/paranoia). I'd let that one go too if i were you.
Food allergies have also been known to cause the symptoms you are describing. Do some research on those. Wheat, soy, and milk are main culprits and are unavoidable in processed food. We are talking a profound change in diet here, but one of these may just be the culprit.
Another possibility is a brain tumor. CT scan would confirm or eliminate this possibility.
And finally, I have to mention this because it was my first thought when I read your symptoms. They are consistent with demonic oppression. I once encountered demons on a bad trip; they were trying to fly into my eyes. I prayed and God protected me from them, but others are not so fortunate. If you think your problem may be of demonic origin, there are people who can help you. Don't loose hope. Sometimes God allows this kind of thing for a greater good, but he will also deliver you.
I hope that didn't freak you out.
Try abstaining from all drugs first. SSRIs can take a month to clear out of you body.
Look into the food allergies; try eliminating the big three from your diet.
Talk your doctor into ordering a CT scan.
Pray for deliverance.
If all else fails, or if you think your problem is demonic in nature, then an exorcism may be in order. There really are people who fight demons for a living. I'm not one of those people, but I could help you find one. The real ones don't charge for the service.
Your in my prayers friend.
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Brugman
antisobrietarian
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Re: Terrible Chronic Burning & Freezing sensation [Re: lucid]
#3962457 - 03/23/05 10:26 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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Probably the Celexa. Did that to me. Switched over to Effexor.
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dr0mni
My Own Messiah
Registered: 08/21/04
Posts: 2,921
Loc: USF Tampa, Fl
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Re: Terrible Chronic Burning & Freezing sensation [Re: Brugman]
#3962749 - 03/23/05 11:36 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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That's really terrible. I don't know what to tell you, but here's what I think;
First thing, don't listen to people who tell you "just trip and face your fears". Psychedelics don't solve everything. It's true that if you suffer from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder resulting from a bad trip, that a new adventure could help. But unless you are positive that this burning/freezing sensation is purely psychosomatic then I wouldn't try this.
If the sensation is happening ALL the time, constantly, then I doubt that it's psychosomatic.
Second, doctors are full of shit! I hate to say it, cause my dad is a surgeon (D.O.), but it's true. Most doctors (M.D. *doesn't stand for "Most Doctors") will have no fucking clue what's wrong with you unless you go to a specialist. Otherwise they will just dick you around and take your money.
I don't know much about SSRI's but any strange pharmacutical put out by greedy corperations (which are in kahoots with the FDA) is likely to be no good for you. But I definitely know you are not supposed to trip while taking SSRI's.
Third, exploring your spirituality might help. Learn to take your pain and transform it into something positive. Pain makes you humble, kind, compassionate. This could be a type of spiritual training that the universe has put you into, preparing you for the rest of your spirits' journey. Pain is not real, only the perception of pain is real (don't worry, I believe that you are really feeling this pain).
Be open to exploring your spiritual and psychic energies. Look into alternative medicine, and meditation. I don't know exactly where to point you, but with the internet you can find anything!
Other than that I don't know... good luck, and much love to you!
dr0mni
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