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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Terrible Chronic Burning & Freezing sensation
    #3960224 - 03/23/05 05:08 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

If people here still remember me, I took shrooms once
in my life about 2 years ago and had a HELLISH trip
(literally) which threw me into a nightmarish Depression
with frequent and many times constant panic attacks.
As terrible and debilitating as this was, over the last
4 months I've had an unbearable chronic burning and
freezing sensation all over my body *all* the time.
The best I can describe it is that it feels like
"Bengay" or "Tiger Balm" or some of those muscle pain
patches, except that it's 1000 times more intense.
My body feels like it's on fire and on ice at the same
time. I can barely do anything anymore (even typing).
The sensation isn't brought about by anything but rather
is constantly there any time I'm concious (even if I wake
up in the middle of the night). Anyone experienced anything
like this ? I had this feeling after I took the shrooms and
it recurred often over the last 2 years but never as bad and
as constant as it's been over the last 4 months. I'm on
Celexa (SSRI) and very low doses of Valium (and my script
will run out soon. My Panic and Depression is just as bad as
it's been over the last 2 years (altho I have had very very
brief periods when I've been able to laugh and even had a good
time at OTD at the shroomery), but this constant burning/freezing is
unbearable. My doc sez he has no idea and that it *might* be
psychological (they did a few blood tests on me and said
they were ok).


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Terrible Chronic Burning & Freezing sensation [Re: lucid]
    #3960691 - 03/23/05 06:23 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

my best bet would be acupuncture.
get an authentic chinese herbalist and acupuncturist to look at you.
I don't think you need to talk about mushroom or anything, he will know from your pulse what to do.

obviously you can live with it but you are not gonna just sit around.
personally I don't know what it is.


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Invisible40oz
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Re: Terrible Chronic Burning & Freezing sensation [Re: lucid]
    #3960710 - 03/23/05 06:28 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

maybe if you stop believing something is wrong with you,
all your problems will dissappear.
you had a bad shroom trip, we've all had them.
life goes on bro. evolve already.


--------------------
:pacman: - - - -  :pill: :mushroom2: :pill2: :mushroom2: :regularshroom: :mushroomgrow: :pill: :pill2: :mushroom2: :poison:

:sun::heart::sun:

tiny_rabid_birds said:
"your avatar is dirty."


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Terrible Chronic Burning & Freezing sensation [Re: lucid]
    #3960759 - 03/23/05 06:41 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Hi Lucid.

I know that last time I wasn't able to help you... and I know you have written off psychedelics completely.

But... it seems you are living in a psychological hell, and have tried just about everything to get out.

I just wanted to say, once again, that I think the solution to your problem is to face your fear. That means tripping again, and letting go of yourself.

When you've gotten so frustrated (with enduring your life) that you truly don't care if you live or die, what have you got to lose? What is there to fear? There is nothing.

Maybe you're still not ready to hear this, but let me just say this:

If you ever reach the day where life seems too worthless to go on, do yourself a favor and face your fears. Before you do anything rash to escape the torment that has become your life, take an 8th of mushrooms and accept everything thrown at you. Face the great void that assaults you, and walk straight into it. Accept it. Embrace it as your destiny.

"Whatever may be, may be."

Fighting what you perceive to be frightening or scary inside your own head is what got you to where you are.

The opposite is to embrace and accept what you perceive to be frightening inside your own head.

Once again, this is only my opinion... and I really wish the best for you.

To me, you've always seemed a good person... One who is buckling under the weight of an extremely heavy load.

I pray that you'll put it down before it crushes you. :heart:


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
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Re: Terrible Chronic Burning & Freezing sensation [Re: 40oz]
    #3960774 - 03/23/05 06:44 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Intellectually, I understand what you're saying 40 OZ, but my
pain is very very REAL. I feel it 24/7. It's not like I think
about someone thing which triggers the pain. It's always there
and actually getting worse gradually. Before it would come and
go, but now I've had it intensely for 4 months. I can barely
do anything in such chronic pain.


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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OfflineBloodNOil
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Re: Terrible Chronic Burning & Freezing sensation [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3960807 - 03/23/05 06:52 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

JacquesCousteau said:
I just wanted to say, once again, that I think the solution to your problem is to face your fear. That means tripping again, and letting go of yourself.





I was just going to post this. Seriously.

Whatever damage has occurred to your psyche occurred in a
psychedelic state. Therefore, your best bet is to return to that
state and allow it to resolve itself.

That said, don't dive recklessly into it (I don't think this will be a
problem). Do it with someone you trust in a safe and orderly
environment. Spend a couple days cleaning whatever place you
might choose. Avoid outside stimulus and see if you can
understand what is bothering you. In all the literature I've read,
once you understand the problem it will go away and you'll be a
better person for it.

To prepare yourself, I recommend reading "The Psychedelic
Experience" by Doctor Timothy Leary. In his book, the good doctor
explains in great detail the nature of a psychedelic trip, and gives
expert advice to "travelers." I found it at Barnes & Noble,
but you might check it out from your local library or buy it online.
There's a copy of it floating around the Internet, but I prefer books
in hard copy.

Edit: Before experimenting with mind-altering drugs, talk to a
neurologist to see if you have an unrelated neural problem. Your
general practitioner didn't find anything, but a specialist might know
something special.


--------------------
It's like a koala bear crapped a rainbow in my brain!


Edited by BloodNOil (03/23/05 06:55 PM)


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Re: Terrible Chronic Burning & Freezing sensation [Re: BloodNOil]
    #3960880 - 03/23/05 07:10 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Hey JC & BN,
trying shooms again seems like "trying" suicide...I mean I just
feel that it's something destructive that could be permanent.
No one "recovers" from suicide so I feel that experimenting
with shrooms in my current state of mind would be irrecoverably
deadly (not to say that I'm recovering now - or that I know
of any way in which I could recover). I feel the famous "what's
the worst that could happen" phrase is quite loaded - going to
Hell and being in eternal torment is the worst that could happen
...and that's quite Horrible !


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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OfflineBloodNOil
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Re: Terrible Chronic Burning & Freezing sensation [Re: BloodNOil]
    #3960904 - 03/23/05 07:16 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Not to double post, but I think my previous one is a little old to edit
by now. This second post is in no way an attack, but Lucid, I've
read some of your other posts, and all you talk about is events.
You're good at explaining how such-and-such misfortune found you,
followed by this or that part of your life crashing down on you. But
what's missing is how you feel about your experiences.

You say that before your bad trip, you were always a happy person.
Did you feel the whole spectrum of emotion during that time? Or
did you suppress those emotions and smile?

You say that you've seen doctors, and that their pills and blood
tests and et cetera don't help you. Why not find someone with
whom you can share all these bad emotions that you may or may
not be keeping to yourself? Why not talk to a friend, or if you don't
trust any of those people, talk to a psychologist (as opposed to a
psychiatrist)? Don't be afraid to collapse into tears -- most people
would in your situation.

DISCLAIMER DISCLAIMER DISCLAIMER

I am not a doctor. My opinion is just that: my opinion. My
impression of you may or may not reflect reality, but it's something
to seriously think about.

edit: This is what I'm talking about:

"I was always a happy kid too despite family troubles."
"I remained happy through seemingly terrible times"
"I always used to wonder why people get depressed "
"I thought that people just need to "be happy"."

There's a difference between dwelling on the negative and
expressing yourself. No, I'm not going to cheapen this with a smiley.


--------------------
It's like a koala bear crapped a rainbow in my brain!


Edited by BloodNOil (03/23/05 07:22 PM)


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Re: Terrible Chronic Burning & Freezing sensation [Re: BloodNOil]
    #3961114 - 03/23/05 08:01 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Hi BN,
I understand what you're saying, but I'm being completely
honest. I feel like a completely diff person. I really was
happy. And to clarify, I DID cry and get "sad" in the past,
but Never "depressed". When my wife left me I was sad and
even cried, but I still loved music and biking and dancing
and my job etc, and still "felt" the same. Now there is nothing
that interests me and I "feel" constantly in pain (burning, freezing,
spaced and confused, tired and yet jittery, can't sleep etc).
I have collapsed into tears before and also during my depression
and several times recently. I've seen a therapist for a year
- who then gave up on me. I've spoken with family and the few
remaining friends that I have, but they've all gotten sick of me...
and I can tell that people here are sick of me too...heck I don't
blame them, I'm sick of me...sick of being in pain all the time...


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
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Re: Terrible Chronic Burning & Freezing sensation [Re: lucid]
    #3961126 - 03/23/05 08:05 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

sorry if I sound bitter and jaded, but chronic pain tends to do that


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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OfflineBloodNOil
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Re: Terrible Chronic Burning & Freezing sensation [Re: BloodNOil]
    #3961182 - 03/23/05 08:23 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Once again, I've passed the edit window. (Yes, i know there's no edit
window, but it's only polite)

I've found yet another detail that might be useful in your situation.
This one comes from a paper published in1980 by an LSD
psychotherapist.

In your first post, where you described your situation, you said that
you went to the ER during your trip (This is for the benefit of other
readers, mostly). The doctors there gave you Ativan, (a powerful
tranquilizer of the benzodiazepine class) [rxlist], effectively cutting
your trip short of its natural resolution. Doctor Stanislav Grof
writes: (The most relevent part is bolded for your convenience)

" The only way to facilitate the completion and integration of
an LSD session in which the experiential gestalt remains unfinished
is to continue the uncovering work, with or without psychedelics. It
is important to emphasize that the effect of LSD is essentially
self-limited; the overwhelming majority of difficult psychedelic
experiences reach a resolution quite spontaneously. Actually, those
states that are most dramatic and stormy tend to have the best
outcome. The use of tranquilizers in the middle of a psychedelic
session is a grave error and may be harmful. It tends to prevent the
natural resolution of the difficult emotional or psychosomatic gestalt
and to "freeze" the experience in a negative phase.
The only
constructive approach is to provide basic protection to the subject,
and support and facilitate the process; the least one can do is to
not interfere with it. "

Doctor Grof also states in his paper that:
"If properly handled, a painful and difficult LSD session can bring
about an important therapeutic breakthrough. It can facilitate
resolution of problems that have plagued the subject in subtle ways
for many years and contaminated his or her everyday life. An
unsuccessful session, however, is one in which difficult feelings
begin to emerge, the subject does not fully surrender to the
process and the gestalt remains unresolved."

SO, if you're still with me, consider this hypothesis:

Your bad trip might be described as the negative feelings of your life
suddenly surfacing into your consciousness. That was
understandably an unpleasant experience. Instead of sticking with
it and experiencing your emotions for the first time, you panicked
and ran from them, but you have found that they now follow you
wherever you go. The only way to put those emotions to rest is to
stop and experience them. Let them catch up to you. Explore them
and learn more about yourself. It will probably be painful, but pain
is a part of life.

There are two ways to explore your emotions: With psychedelics
and without. The choice is yours. If you feel that you must be
forced to deal with them, then I recommend another trip.
Otherwise, it's your responsibility to seek them out.

========Further Reading=========
RXList entry for Ativan: http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/pharmclips2.cgi?keyword=%20Ativan%AE

Crisis Intervention in Situations Related to Unsupervised Use of Psychedelics
Appendix I., LSD Psychotherapy: Hunter House Publishers, Alameda California.
?1980, 1994 by Stanislav Grof, M.D.
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/lsd/grof2.htm

Ediit again: You made your last two posts while I was writing this.
Are you sure you've fully experienced your grief? I don't mean to be
rude, but I don't believe you.
p.s. Did your therapists have a reason to give up on you?

P.P.S. By "your first post" I was referring to your first post ever at the Shroomery
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...rue#Post1421156


--------------------
It's like a koala bear crapped a rainbow in my brain!


Edited by BloodNOil (03/23/05 08:37 PM)


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Terrible Chronic Burning & Freezing sensation [Re: BloodNOil]
    #3961215 - 03/23/05 08:30 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Right on the money.

"Your bad trip might be described as the negative feelings of your life suddenly surfacing into your consciousness. That was understandably an unpleasant experience. Instead of sticking with it and experiencing your emotions for the first time, you panicked and ran from them, but you have found that they now follow you wherever you go. The only way to put those emotions to rest is to stop and experience them. Let them catch up to you. Explore them and learn more about yourself. It will probably be painful, but pain is a part of life."


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OfflineKalix
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Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 1,504
Last seen: 11 years, 6 days
Re: Terrible Chronic Burning & Freezing sensation [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3961231 - 03/23/05 08:34 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Cannabis works great for chronic pain, and ussually makes me feel pretty darned good about myself


--------------------


My Unitarian Jihad Name is: The Shotgun of Sweet Reason


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
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Re: Terrible Chronic Burning & Freezing sensation [Re: BloodNOil]
    #3961258 - 03/23/05 08:41 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Hey BN,
Thanks for finding that article, I actually read it a couple
of years ago when searching for help. But to clarify I went to
the ER over 2 weeks after my bad trip (in fact I think it was
a full month or more after - definitely more than 2 weeks after).
I went cause I was having a panic attack and that's when they
gave me Ativan - so, to reiterate, it was well after the trip.
I've been to the ER twice after that, and was very badly treated,
to the point where I'm now terrified of going to the hospital
(once they gave me so much Valium and Haldol - an anti psychotic
which acts as a Major Tranquilizer - that my bladder stopped
functioning and I was in agonizing pain for about 4 or 5 days.
And yes, that pain was worse than I'm in now, actually worst pain
I've ever felt, but I knew it would get better in a matter of
days, whereas now I've been in a lot of chronic pain for 4 months
and it's really worn me down).


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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OfflineBloodNOil
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Re: Terrible Chronic Burning & Freezing sensation [Re: lucid]
    #3961316 - 03/23/05 08:54 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Tranqs or not, you still ran.

Argue with me and quibble over the details all you want, I won't
change my mind. My patience is coming to an end. You asked for
help, and I gave you my honest opinion.

You asked for the wisdom of the Shroomery, and the wisdom has been
spelled out for you with medical authority to back it up.

You have your answers. Whether or not you act on them is your choice and yours alone.

I'll leave you with one last suggestion. Seek out Doctor Grof
and ask him for his advice, or to recommend a psychedelic therapist
to see you.
http://www.erowid.org/culture/characters/grof_stanislav/grof_stanislav.shtml


--------------------
It's like a koala bear crapped a rainbow in my brain!


Edited by BloodNOil (03/23/05 08:56 PM)


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Re: Terrible Chronic Burning & Freezing sensation [Re: BloodNOil]
    #3961639 - 03/23/05 10:10 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Hi BN,
sorry if I offended u in any way, don't mean to "test
your patience" at all. Just wanted to clarify the facts.
Actually, I did contact Dr Grof and if I remember
correctly he said he didn't know
anyone in Montreal, but that I should try to find a
psychologist who treats Panic Attacks which I did and
she stopped seeing me after a year (cause, in her words,
I wasn't getting any better and seemed to be getting worse).


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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OfflineBloodNOil
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Re: Terrible Chronic Burning & Freezing sensation [Re: lucid]
    #3961787 - 03/23/05 10:37 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

sorry i snapped at you, dude. I get a little irritable when my meds
wear off. You left so suddenly that I thought I'd triggered you
somehow and that you were out hanging yourself from a fire escape.

Don't give up on finding a psychedelic therapist in your area just
because some old coot from Johns Hopkins doesn't know anyone
personally who lives near you. There might be someone who Grof doesn't know, or you might have to travel.

Do your homework, find as many psychedelic specialists as you can
and see if you can network with those guys to find someone
reasonably close to you.

another insight: the people who still tolerate you are probably your
\best friends for life. One of those people would probably make a
good helper if you wanted to venture back into the abyss.

yes, the worst that could happen is that you might get worse.
That's a risk you take when you meddle with ANYTHING. With most
medical procedures, the worst that could happen is you could DIE.
Just take the lessons you learned from the first trip (Did you trust
your shaman man? Were you in an unfamiliar place? Did you
somehow screw up the trip because you weren't prepared? (hint:
yes.)) Remedy those problems and go straight back in! In all
possibility, you'll have the worst time of your life and things will sort
themselves out.


--------------------
It's like a koala bear crapped a rainbow in my brain!


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Invisibleshroomydan
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Re: Terrible Chronic Burning & Freezing sensation [Re: lucid]
    #3962008 - 03/23/05 11:16 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Hi there lucid,


I didn't thoroughly read this entire thread, so someone may have already mentioned this, but the chronic burning sensation seems to point to a real neurological problem. I think I read somewhere about SSRI's causing this as a side effect in a few rare cases. If I were you I would stop taking the Celexa immediately. I personally think SSRI are bad drugs which will eventually go the way of Thalidomide, so I admit bias here.

Someone mentioned pot. This is a pretty benign drug which works wonders for chronic pain, but it can also make susceptible individuals crazy (panic/paranoia). I'd let that one go too if i were you.

Food allergies have also been known to cause the symptoms you are describing. Do some research on those. Wheat, soy, and milk are main culprits and are unavoidable in processed food. We are talking a profound change in diet here, but one of these may just be the culprit.

Another possibility is a brain tumor. CT scan would confirm or eliminate this possibility.

And finally, I have to mention this because it was my first thought when I read your symptoms. They are consistent with demonic oppression. I once encountered demons on a bad trip; they were trying to fly into my eyes. I prayed and God protected me from them, but others are not so fortunate. If you think your problem may be of demonic origin, there are people who can help you. Don't loose hope. Sometimes God allows this kind of thing for a greater good, but he will also deliver you.

I hope that didn't freak you out. :smile:

Try abstaining from all drugs first. SSRIs can take a month to clear out of you body.

Look into the food allergies; try eliminating the big three from your diet.

Talk your doctor into ordering a CT scan.

Pray for deliverance.

If all else fails, or if you think your problem is demonic in nature, then an exorcism may be in order. There really are people who fight demons for a living. I'm not one of those people, but I could help you find one. The real ones don't charge for the service.

Your in my prayers friend.  :heart:


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OfflineBrugman
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Registered: 05/17/01
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Re: Terrible Chronic Burning & Freezing sensation [Re: lucid]
    #3962457 - 03/24/05 12:26 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Probably the Celexa. Did that to me. Switched over to Effexor.


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: Terrible Chronic Burning & Freezing sensation [Re: Brugman]
    #3962749 - 03/24/05 01:36 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

That's really terrible. I don't know what to tell you, but here's what I think;

First thing, don't listen to people who tell you "just trip and face your fears". Psychedelics don't solve everything. It's true that if you suffer from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder resulting from a bad trip, that a new adventure could help. But unless you are positive that this burning/freezing sensation is purely psychosomatic then I wouldn't try this.

If the sensation is happening ALL the time, constantly, then I doubt that it's psychosomatic.

Second, doctors are full of shit! I hate to say it, cause my dad is a surgeon (D.O.), but it's true. Most doctors (M.D. *doesn't stand for "Most Doctors") will have no fucking clue what's wrong with you unless you go to a specialist. Otherwise they will just dick you around and take your money.

I don't know much about SSRI's but any strange pharmacutical put out by greedy corperations (which are in kahoots with the FDA) is likely to be no good for you. But I definitely know you are not supposed to trip while taking SSRI's.

Third, exploring your spirituality might help. Learn to take your pain and transform it into something positive. Pain makes you humble, kind, compassionate. This could be a type of spiritual training that the universe has put you into, preparing you for the rest of your spirits' journey. Pain is not real, only the perception of pain is real (don't worry, I believe that you are really feeling this pain).

Be open to exploring your spiritual and psychic energies. Look into alternative medicine, and meditation. I don't know exactly where to point you, but with the internet you can find anything!

Other than that I don't know... good luck, and much love to you!

dr0mni


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