Swami said:

The same goes for MDMA.

Does it? MDMA was legal for almost 50 years.

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Shulgin didn't re-discover MDMA until 1965 and the first underground batch wasn't made until 1967. So it would be stretching it to say that MDMA was legal for 20 years, Swam.


Anyway, about the acid talk. It's cool that you guys don't agree. It will probably make you happier people to not believe what I believe.

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"The drug should have been called Empathy," Shulgin insists. He believes there?s nothing ecstatic about Ecstasy - though he mirthfully admits the drug dealers who coined the tag probably knew what was best for their business.

Prior to 1985, which is when MDMA was declared illegal, it was one of hundreds of compounds that chemists mined for pharmacological activity. However, it wasn?t until the summer of 1976 that Shulgin was curious enough about the old German reject (it had been patented by Merck in 1912) that he decided to "taste test" a batch of his own.

A week before, he?d received a call from a friend recommending he take a closer look. Starting out at 15 milligrams, he found the drug had no effect. Yet, as days turned into weeks, Shulgin gradually increased the dosage and soon found something unexpected.

"I was just amazed by what was there," he says. In his lab notes, he wrote, "I feel absolutely clean inside, and there is nothing but pure euphoria. I have never felt so great or believed this to be possible. The cleanliness, clarity, and marvelous feeling of solid inner strength continued throughout the rest of the day and evening. I am overcome by the profundity of the experience."

from: http://mdma.net/alexander-shulgin/ 

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I read somewhere that it was a graduate student who brought MDMA to Shulgin's attention. Can't find the citation just now.

I'm with Learyfan on all this, btw. I think the "hippies" did good stuff.

Phluck said:

Have you ever taken LSD with someone who you consider to be a moron? I have. They change from a moron... to a childish moron.

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Well, yeah. But if acid were the magical catalyst for personal change you make it out to be, wouldn't it not have been so foolish? Wouldn't giving it to the Hell's Angels have changed them, made them realize the errors of their ways and become peace loving hippies?

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I invision the psychedelic revolution as being a domino effect. People like the Hell's Angels might be a part of the last wave of people for whom "the thought" clicks with. Until people like the Hells Angels stop playing the macho, bad ass game, I would personally stay as far away from them as possible.

Swami said:

Guess many of you have read the el kool-aid acid test.

Yes and Keseys' group disintegrated, not because of outside forces, but because many DID become fucked up. LSD is one of the most intriguing substances, but does not hold the key to human spiritual development. Abuse is abuse and trippers are still people prone to all of the power and control games that others play.

Got CID?

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If psychedelics were legal, people would become wiser and wiser about what drugs do to you. People would eventually learn what line not to cross. The Pranksters and the rest of the hippies didn't know where the line was because they were pioneers and explorers. The reason so many people still get fucked up on drugs is because they aren't given factual information about drugs. They are told to "just say no" and that's all there is to it.

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I've known intelligent, well versed psychonauts who still go way overboard. They know how to be cautious, and they've read all the applicable literature, but they still made bad decisions about what they could or couldn't handle.

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Your argument doesn't seem to be based on evidence supporting the idea that LSD could have made great changes, you're arguing more with excuses as to why it failed.

What is the evidence it would have made things better? The only thing I can think of is that when you're on acid, it feels like it's that great.

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Well, "better" is subjective of course. I think a better world is one that is more peaceful and tolerant. Take a look at any group of people who take psychedelics and smoke pot regularly. As a whole, these people are always more peaceful and tolerant. Are you more likely to see a fight in a bar or at a Dead show?

Swami said:

But if psychedelics were legal, good information would become more and more available. Fewer and fewer people would get themselves in bad situations as time went on.

We can see this model in action as it applies to alcohol.

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Not to mention the sad-but-funny Shroomery and Erowid trip reports wherein kids were repeatedly warned with up-to-date information, yet think it does not apply to them.

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I don't think the majority of trippers hurt themselves with psychedelics.  Also, take into account that as is stands now, kids don't know who or what to believe.  They've been lied to about drugs for too long.  Once psychedelics are legal, accurate information about them will become common and more and more understood. 



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