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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Science and Pseudoscience [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3670027 -

Definately there is some garbage in here that people try to pass off as science, but things like the string theory ARE philosphoical, and as such deserve to be discussed as such. Its not science yet either but it draws its conjectures from science and in the near future we will know if it is wrong or maybe right. Perhaps a better name would be String Hypothisis. In a way its spiritual too, if it was true it would be a theory of everything. All encompassing sort of like god...

As for the guy that says scientific laws cant be proven wrong your wrong. As shroomydan pointed out its happened several times. The reason is simple, when say sir isaac newton developed his law of gravity his instruments for testing it were not as sensitive as what we have today. It was made a "law" without being subjected to the rigerous tests it would have gone through today.

peace

blaze2


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Science and Pseudoscience [Re: blaze2]
    #3670066 -

Well you are being much more strict than myself. I consider string theory to fall on the science side of the fence because it is derived from relativity and quantum mechanics. Yes, I do know that they can't currently test it. You are correct in describing it as a hypotheses. As far as scientific laws not changing...they should evolve with time and knowledge. The "law" of gravity as described by Newton is inaccurate by our standards today, but it is still a good rough and ready description of the phenomenon. My major irritation occurs, as I have already stated, when something unrelated to science altogether is represented as science.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Science and Pseudoscience [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3671366 -

No doubt that string theory is science in that it deals with einstienian(sp?) and quantom physics or mechanics what ever you want to call it, when i siad its not science up there i meant that it wasn't accecpted yet in teh scientific community. Were on teh same page, just using different terms in other words.

I agree with you completely about the something unrelated to science getting pushed as such in here. but i guess in the end all you can really do is point out the fact that its not science in the thread, and hope people are smart enough to see it for whatever it is. junk.
peace

blaze2


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Science and Pseudoscience [Re: blaze2]
    #3671596 -

"in the end all you can really do is point out the fact that its not science in the thread, and hope people are smart enough to see it for whatever it is. junk."

True


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Science and Pseudoscience [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3672592 -

ok homies...
laws of motion.... (on earth mid you)
GO!
prove them wrong.


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"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd


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Re: Science and Pseudoscience [Re: incubaby_421]
    #3673591 -

Will do Inky.

Newton's First Law of Motion - A body at rest will stay at rest until acted on upon by a force.

False.  According to quantum mechanics, that body is actually in a constant state of motion, however undetectable.  Modern science perfectly allows for that body to suddenly start moving from rest even if not acted on, however, the waiting time for that event is probably longer than the universe's lifespan. :wink:


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"And we should consider every day lost on which we have not danced at least once. And we should call every truth false which was not accompanied by at least one laugh." - Friedrich Nietzsche


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Re: Science and Pseudoscience [Re: oceansize]
    #3675060 -

I would argue that it still can be considered true relative to specific frames. Not to say that their can't be slight modification, but just that within a specific reference a system has to behave in a specific manner. If it does not there cannot be any laws and things wouldn't ever act logically, this would lend to entire chaos and there would be no science because you could never describe anything. Even behaviors based on statistics act logically even though they have varying results. As shroomydan said "What we are left with is models of reality which work most of the time and theories." I see at is that you can only take things to be true in their context, but when applied to other contexts it is false. Truth in relative laws, but no absolute law.

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Re: Science and Pseudoscience [Re: relativexistance]
    #3675223 -

In a way you are right Relative existance. In the Einstienian world of physics everything is like you said there is some semblace of order. On the other hand is the Quantum world, which is the Randomness and chaos that you say cannot exist.

Ok heres the riddle. There are two particles, they are both racing towards a point in space. The first is travelling at the speed of light and is closer to the end point than the other, yet Both particles arrive at the same instant.

How did the second particle reach the point in space at the same time as the first, when Einstienian physics dictates that NOTHING can exceed the speed of light.

Heres another

Electrons spin around the nucleus of Atoms as im sure you guys know. However apparently they can be in more than two places at once. Thats just plain crazy. How can ONE particle be in more than ONE place?

Quantum Physics or Mechanincs if you like that better, is full of these paradoxes that is why Einstien himself called is "Spooky physics" and that is also why we havent figured it out. Its the Chaos theory to the extreme. It is possible to predict some things, but never to a certainty in the Quantum world.

Heres the reason, at least as i understand it. On a large scale liek planets moons suns galaxys and the like the "fabric of space" is smooth. When you get right up next to it, all the way down to atomic level and smaller, it is not smooth it is sort of "churning" or "bubbling". It has been described as the Quantum Foam. The bubbling and churning of it is completely random at least as far we know which makes predicting anything on this level difficult to say the least. Everythign comes down to odds in teh Quantum world.

The string theory tries to bring the quantom and the Einsienian physics together In one unifiing "Theory of Everything". Einstien was said to have spent his last years working on such a theory and never succeded. It is possible that the string theory may be this "Theory of Everything".

anyways ive talked about it enough i think. I hope i didnt make any mistakes that some science genious will point out. peace

blaze2


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Science and Pseudoscience [Re: blaze2]
    #3675554 -

did you all miss the typo...

on earth...mind you

and how exactly can you prove something with a waiting time longer than the lifespan of the universe????

and also remember that quantum mechanics has never been fully proven, as all of the basic laws of science have....
granted it has never been fully disproven either, and dont take any of this the wrong way, im not trying to say your wrong or im right,
just trying to make the wheels turn.
love and light,
allways
incubaby(one away from the good one)


--------------------
"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd


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Re: Science and Pseudoscience [Re: incubaby_421]
    #3676275 -

alright cool, but still:

scientific law can be proven wrong. this is nothing new, science knew it all along.


--------------------
"And we should consider every day lost on which we have not danced at least once. And we should call every truth false which was not accompanied by at least one laugh." - Friedrich Nietzsche


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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