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car search
    #3542246 -

would it be considered reasonable cause to search your car if a police officer says that your car smells like weed? is there any defense against this the proof is based soley on the word of the officer, the reason i am asking is a police officer used this as an excuse along with the claim that one of the passengers eyes looked glazed over when it obviously did not smell like weed in the car and non of the occupants looked high.

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Re: car search [Re: frogger25]
    #3542268 -

Yep, the Ross case gave the police A LOT of authority and discretion in car searches. All an officer needs is articulable probable cause, and it sounds like it would just be your word against his. Perhaps you could move to have the case dismissed based on vagueness of the law: whereby it would give officers almost unlimited power to search motor vehicles.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Re: car search [Re: dblaney]
    #3542286 -

well thankfully the search didnt turn up anything, it definetky had me in suspense for a good 20min. but yeah that is a crap law. the only reason we were searched is because we fit the profile for a drug user i guess, several young, hippy looking college age kids sitting in a parking lot at 1am. it most definetly did not smell like weed because we hadnt smoked since a few hours earlier and no where in the vicinity of where we were at.and what is that shit about your eyes looking glazed? is that even pharmocologically proven to be an effect of mj?

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Re: car search [Re: frogger25]
    #3542321 -

Eh, I'm not sure about being proven, but it's a fairly common sign I think. Although I'm really not sure how you would define 'glazed'. Some people's eyes get bloodshot, some don't, same with being glazed I would imagine.

I'm glad you're in the clear.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Re: car search [Re: frogger25]
    #3542577 -

you can have it searched but they cannot legally do anything for a smell. many burning plants smell "weed" like, so it would be easy to prove him wrong in any court.

but a cop can come up with an excuss for anything if they want to search you. its not that hard at all, just be respectfull and they usually wont be pricks.


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The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.

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Re: car search [Re: kadakuda]
    #3544125 -

Smell is not probable cause. This has been ruled definitively. Smell is not probable cause because smell is a such a subjective sense, and what smells like one thing to one person, can easily smell like something different to another.


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Everything that we see is a shadow cast by that which we do not see.

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Re: car search [Re: Lifenergy]
    #3546807 -

> well thankfully the search didnt turn up anything

I would write a formal complaint to the police department stating exactly what happened. I would also send a letter to the news paper and local television news stations.

> Smell is not probable cause.

Bzzt, try again.

> what smells like one thing to one person, can easily smell like something different to another

Ah yes, rose water to you smells like piss to me... Seriously, cops having this thing called training in which they are taught what cannabis smoke smells like. I do not know a judge in this country that wouldn't allow a search of a car if the cop claimed: "Having worked as a police officer for the last 30 years, and having spend 10 of those years on the anti-narcotics task force, and having had extensive training with some anti-narcotics program, I am well aware of the smell of marijuana smoke compared to the smell of other types of smoke. When I pulled over John Doe on such and such date at such and such time at this location, I detected the obvious smell of burning marijuana emanating from the car as I approached. I question the driver, and noticed that his eyes were bloodshot and glazed. Based upon my years of training and experience, I felt there was a strong likely hood that marijuana was present."

> This has been ruled definitively

Fine. Show me a reference, please... preferably one from the Supreme Court, since they set definitive at the federal level.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: car search [Re: Seuss]
    #3547391 -

Okay. Here is a reference...from the SUPREME COURT.
Smell is not cause for a warrantless search. Smell can be used as cause to get a warrant, but not to invade privacy:
---------------------------------------------------------
From: http://www.marijuana.org/PRJudgelessWarrants.htm
Johnson vs. United States, U.S. Supreme Court 1948



?Entry to defendant's living quarters, which was the beginning of the search, was demanded under color of office. It was granted in submission to authority rather than as an understanding and intentional waiver of a constitutional right. Cf. Amos v. United States, 255 U.S. 313.



At the time entry was demanded the officers were possessed of evidence which a magistrate might have found to be probable cause for issuing a search warrant. We cannot sustain defendant's contention, erroneously made, on the strength of Taylor v. United States, 286 U.S. 1, that odors cannot be evidence sufficient to constitute probable grounds for any search. That decision held only that odors alone do not authorize a search without warrant. If the presence of odors is testified to before a magistrate and he finds the affiant qualified to know the odor, and it is one sufficiently distinctive to identify a forbidden substance, this Court has never held such a basis insufficient to justify issuance of a search warrant. Indeed it might very well be found to be evidence of most persuasive character.



But the Court stresses that the point of the Fourth Amendment, which often is not grasped by zealous officers, is not that it denies law enforcement the support of the usual inferences which reasonable men draw from evidence. Its protection consists in requiring that those inferences be drawn by a neutral and detached magistrate instead of being judged by the officer engaged in the often competitive enterprise of ferreting out crime.



[Footnote] Any assumption that evidence sufficient to support a magistrate's disinterested determination to issue a search warrant will justify the officers in making a search without a warrant would reduce the Amendment to a nullity and leave the people's homes secure only in the discretion of police officers." [333 U.S. 13-14] ? Johnson vs. United States, U.S. Supreme Court 1948.

Another interesting case with the Supreme Court, where LEO's sense were challenged: http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/legal/l1990/Dickerson.htm

Also in Texas Court of Criminal Appeals. State v. Steelman, the state of Texas argued that "once a police officer smells burning marijuana and determines which house it is coming from, he has probable cause to arrest the occupants and search the house. But the court disagreed."

Here is what overgrow says as well:
http://www.overgrow.com/edge/showthread/t-532889.html

"SMELL: In most States, even the smell of marijuana does not provide p/c to search a home- or even a CAR in some States!"


Now this might not stand true in Illinois and Minnesota, because they have had a couple of contradictory rulings. Some state cases have ruled that smell is only probable cause to search the passenger compartment, and not the trunk or anywhere else in the car. State laws vary and are conflicting,but he Supreme Court was clear in its decision.

I did do some research before posting my previous information. I'm not an idiot.


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Everything that we see is a shadow cast by that which we do not see.

Edited by Lifenergy (12/27/04 03:52 PM)

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Re: car search [Re: Lifenergy]
    #3547393 -

Also, check out this NORML site:
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=6112


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Everything that we see is a shadow cast by that which we do not see.

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Re: car search [Re: Lifenergy]
    #3548364 -

While the Supreme Court did make those rulings, they were made in reference to a permanent place of residence and in 1948.

A motor vehicle has slightly different laws surrounding it, because of it's moveable nature. If an officer smells burning marijuana, that would (sadly enough) probably be enough articulable probable cause in most courts of law to justify a search.

Also, because a vehicle can be moved, a LEO could argue that they feared imminent destruction of evidence. It would probably be unconstitutional to hold someone in their vehicle for a few hours while a warrant is obtained, hence the ruling in the Ross case which allows for warrantless searches.

If an officer pulls you over, claims to smell burning marijuana and notices that your eyes are glazed/bloodshot, he pretty much has the right to search you and your car. If the LEO found any drugs in your car, then there would be almost no defense against it except for questioning the way the officer conducted him or herself or some technicality.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Re: car search [Re: dblaney]
    #3548751 -

This is not always true. In Ohio it was ruled otherwise:
"Pot smell does not justify car search, court says"
http://www.freepress.org/Backup/UnixBackup/pubhtml/hemp/hicourt.html

Here is a link to a case in Maryland where "MERE K-9 ALERT TO VEHICLE PROVIDES BASIS TO SEARCH VEHICLE BUT DOES NOT ESTABLISH PROBABLE CAUSE TOARREST OR SEARCH PASSENGER"
http://www.robertbonsib.bcentralhost.com/Article%20-%20Vehicle%20Searches.htm
In that case the passenger got off.
It never that clear cut. State laws vary, so research and find the precedent for your state


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Everything that we see is a shadow cast by that which we do not see.

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Re: car search [Re: Lifenergy]
    #3554169 -

Quote:
you can have it searched but they cannot legally do anything for a smell. many burning plants smell "weed" like, so it would be easy to prove him wrong in any court.

but a cop can come up with an excuss for anything if they want to search you. its not that hard at all, just be respectfull and they usually wont be pricks.


re read :wink:  what im saying is they cant do shit for a smell, but they can come up with any number of reasons to search your car.  i would be VERY suprised if even 1 out of 100000 cars had NO probably cause in them.


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The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.

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Re: car search [Re: kadakuda]
    #3557074 -

A creative cop can come up with probable cause, maybe with a little lying added to the mix.  Unlikely, yes.  Still, you should always assume your vehicle has probable cause to be searched; may not apply for those living outside the ussa.

(too much alliteration in this post.  :stoned:time.)


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Re: car search [Re: Lifenergy]
    #3560833 -

Lifenergy said:
This is not always true. In Ohio it was ruled otherwise:
"Pot smell does not justify car search, court says"
http://www.freepress.org/Backup/UnixBackup/pubhtml/hemp/hicourt.html

Here is a link to a case in Maryland where "MERE K-9 ALERT TO VEHICLE PROVIDES BASIS TO SEARCH VEHICLE BUT DOES NOT ESTABLISH PROBABLE CAUSE TOARREST OR SEARCH PASSENGER"
http://www.robertbonsib.bcentralhost.com/Article%20-%20Vehicle%20Searches.htm
In that case the passenger got off.
It never that clear cut. State laws vary, so research and find the precedent for your state


In your first link the pot was in the trunk. I've been through being busted for bud and it was about 3 months prior to my room mate being busted...I had just under 2 pounds, him just over 1. Both of us were searched based on smell and both of our (different and good lawyers that specialize in drugs) lawyers, though got us off with cont without retribution, informed us that the 'four corners' of your car can be searched off of smell. This doesn't include the trunk, only the cab.

In your second link they say this "Moylan noted that the trial judge had failed to make any specific findings of first level facts concerning the conflict in testimony between the detectives and the Funkhouser. As a result, the CSA was bound to take as true the versions of facts most favorable to the prevailing party, in this case Funkhouser?s version"

This is where the problems were and why he got off...the judge had no facts from the first judge written down so he had to go with Funkhousers version, not the cops.

Suess' quote is EXACTLY what they say...sorry but if you think the judge wont except it....well you can have the rest of my probation sentence until February.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay

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Re: car search [Re: Seuss]
    #3560863 -

Quote:
I would write a formal complaint to the police department stating exactly what happened. I would also send a letter to the news paper and local television news stations.



Did you get the cop's badge number?

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Re: car search [Re: phi1618]
    #3574794 -

no and i regret that now, i didnt even ask his name. its just one oft hose things you wish you hadnt forgotten to ask

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Re: car search [Re: frogger25]
    #3598231 -

frogger25 said:
would it be considered reasonable cause to search your car if a police officer says that your car smells like weed?


understand this about a car search, first, refusal to consent to a search is not
probable cause, second, I've never one time smoked pot or drank alcohol in my
vehicles but I have had cops say that it smelled like pot/beer

Cops are trained to lie, thats the most common lie they use, try responding to
the officer with a comment like "I understand officer, you think that because of
my appearance that I'm a pothead and I realize you must say that in order to
show probable cause to the procecutor, I'm sorry, but I refuse to consent to a
search of my vehicle"

That line has turned more cops away from a search of my car than you can
imagine, also, you need to realize that half the reason that a cop even
wishes to search your car is because of appearance, long hair = pothead
in a cops mind, other things are t-shirts that promote rock bands
the goal is to avoid being suspected, if you look like a sterotypical
pothead, you will be suspect.

and dont think that altering your appearance makes you a conformist, it
simply allows you to blend in like camoflauge for the urban warrior.


--------------------
California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: car search [Re: dblaney]
    #3598246 -

dblaney18 said:
While the Supreme Court did make those rulings, they were made in reference to a permanent place of residence and in 1948.

A motor vehicle has slightly different laws surrounding it, because of it's moveable nature.


I'm not sure about law where you are from but in the state of georgia, your
automobile is considered an extention of your home as is your place of business


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: car search [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #3603813 -

Prisoner#1 said:
I'm not sure about law where you are from but in the state of georgia, your automobile is considered an extention of your home as is your place of business


Wait, so you mean that the state law in Georgia requires a warrant for a motor vehicle search?


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Re: car search [Re: frogger25]
    #3604075 -

I got pulledf over last night and the cop asked me to step outa the car then proceeded to look in my car i asked him what he was doin and he said he was just looking for alachol or other things.
(im underage) So in return i asked him what his probable cause was and he said nothing just doin my job. I respctfully said "sir i dont think going throught other peoples personal belonings with out permission is in your job title. He said your right i guess ill just have to take your word for it. And let me go. The whole way home about 15-20 min he followed me. It was real sketch.


--------------------

I been thinking about the police Jelly filled for justice, please



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