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Basic Weapons Search
    #4085796 -

When a cop pulls you over and pats you down, and feels something that could be a baggie of drugs, are you required by law to pull it out and show it? Hence it's a weapons search, a soft squeazable bag would not constitute for one, would it?


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Re: Basic Weapons Search [Re: Fospher]
    #4085853 -

You're talking about a Terry search, which is merely a search for weapons to ensure an officers safety. In theory and according to the law, if a cop finds drugs on you while patting you down for weapons he can use that against you because he was merely looking for weapons, not drugs. However, in real life the cop could feel that and then say he smells pot or something and they search you with probably cause and find your weed and bust you. So, are you required by law, no, but does that matter, no a cop will do whatever he wants. It's best to stash he drugs in your car somewhere that is out of plain sight and not in an obvious place (like glove box, or under the seat) and refuse to let him search your car if he asks.

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Re: Basic Weapons Search [Re: Fospher]
    #4085869 -

Always refuse a searchh.
If they give you the patdown, and find a bag or pipe, they tend to ask what it is.
respond:" I don't know, but it's not a weapon"
If they do seaarch you, state, "I object to this search" but comply.

ALWAYS REFUSE A SEARCH. IT IS YOUR RIGHT.


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"..all those molecules thrashing their kinky little tails, hot for destiny and the street."  Gibson


Nuke baby seals for Jesus!

(This has been a +1 production.)

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Re: Basic Weapons Search [Re: discoabe]
    #4085890 -

discoabe said:
In theory and according to the law, if a cop finds drugs on you while patting you down for weapons he can use that against you because he was merely looking for weapons, not drugs.


Well you were right about everything, except from my understanding of the law and Supreme Court rulings, during a Terry pat, technically the officer can ONLY search for weapons. He cannot legally take out anything unless it feels like a weapon. A plastic baggie should not feel like a weapon, but since it might feel like a bag, you can bet the cop will ask you what it is. Don't worry, and don't tell him anything. If you have no highly-plausible excuse, then just remain silent, it is your right to do so. Some officers are less inclined to go by the books however, and will just empty out your pockets as he pleases, and if he finds drugs, then you're going to get arrested. If you do, REMAIN SILENT! Your lawyer should be able to get you off because of unreasonable search and seizure.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Re: Basic Weapons Search [Re: dblaney]
    #4086229 -

That's what I meant dblaney but it's not what I typed haha, between our two posts we have a complete, correct answer.

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Re: Basic Weapons Search [Re: dblaney]
    #4086390 -

dblaney18 said:
Some officers are less inclined to go by the books however, and will just empty out your pockets as he pleases, and if he finds drugs, then you're going to get arrested. If you do, REMAIN SILENT! Your lawyer should be able to get you off because of unreasonable search and seizure.


I think I should add that if an officer empties your pockets or asks you to empty them then tell the officer that you do not authorize any search of your person or property. State this repeatedly, but if an officer orders you to comply then comply. Many police officers carry wirless mics on them that record traffic (or other) stops. This always helps a judge decide in court.


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Basic Weapons Search [Re: discoabe]
    #4086668 -

:sun:


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Re: Basic Weapons Search [Re: dblaney]
    #4087060 -

Friggin' beautiful. I didnt get busted with anything, just wanted to confirm this. Thanks dudes


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Re: Basic Weapons Search [Re: Fospher]
    #4087810 -

On a side note, I know this doesn't have to do with weapons but...

In the state of Pennsylvania, you go out, have a few drinks, get behind the wheel of your car. You're not drunk but you've had say... 2 beers.

Cop pulls you over and wants to give you a breathilizer test... you take it, and the results aren't accurate.

The cop then says, "Well I want to take you back to the station and draw blood"..

If you refuse to let the cop do this, your drivers license will be taken away on the spot and you'll loose your license for a full year.

This ALMOST happened to a very close friend of mine. He allowed the cops to draw blood becasue for his job he absolutely needs to drive.

My point is... before you comply or deny, know all of the repercussions.

Lana

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Re: Basic Weapons Search [Re: Lana]
    #4089148 -

it's basically the law everywhere if you refuse any part of the sobriety test you loose your license.

what you can do..... if you've really only had 2 drinks, is tell the cop you just had two drinks, and you wish to wait a moment to blow again.

This would apply to you if you came strait from dinner and you had a sip of your drink directly before you drove, this would make the Breathalyzer register a high score.
But you're obviously not impaired, so if you're a polite the cop will be cool about it. usually.

and if you do get taken in you can request another test, to show that the first test was inaccurate.


if they take blood you can be fucked because they can test for drugs, possibly complicating the issue.



and quite frankly,

denying a search is terrible advice!!!!

because we all know cops will search you anyways, and usually they don't ask in the first place.

And in my experience acting like you can deny them things or like you know laws they don't is a sure fire way to get a taste of back end of a mag-light.

i seen first hand cops beat down women like they were men, because they acted in a disrespectful " I KNOW MY RIGHTS " kinda way. Then BASH!!

It's good to act savvy but not arrogant.

And,
put soft squeezable bags in your crotch,
hard to tell it from other soft squeezable bags.

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Re: Basic Weapons Search [Re: zerozero]
    #4089186 -

no. not true. the cop is testing your knowledge. if he sees that you are going to let him search you, he will. if you consent to the search you fucked yourself.


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Use the Fucking Reply To Feature You Lazy Pieces of Shit!

afoaf said:
Jim, if you were in my city, I would let you fuck my wife.

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Re: Basic Weapons Search [Re: zerozero]
    #4089370 -

zerozero said:
and quite frankly,

denying a search is terrible advice!!!!

because we all know cops will search you anyways, and usually they don't ask in the first place.



Fuck no man, one thing is knowing your rights, another thing is being a smartass. You can say the same thing a whole new way without making the cop feel like you're the one in authority. As long as the cop thinks he's the one in control, it's unlikely that he'll try to bust you. Case in point:

"No officer, I do not consent any searches"
"Im sorry sir, My girlfiend is having her period and is all out of tampons, thats why I was speeding. She's bleeding all over the place."

Same thing said, only the latter would much more likely get you off the hook and get the dogs called on.


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Re: Basic Weapons Search [Re: Fospher]
    #4090300 -

fact: they are passing laws that stipulate that if pulled over FOR ANY REASON ones car can be searched with a drug dog. period.

and I've never been asked before my right were violated.

consent isn't important at all.

cops do shit without consent every second!!
just cause you know your being fucked doesn't mean anything.


you guy's are talking about the factual law, while I'm talking about what will actually happen.

maybe the cops in your area are more understanding of personal freedoms and rights.
:rolleyes:

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Re: Basic Weapons Search [Re: zerozero]
    #4091274 -

zerozero said:
cops do shit without consent every second!!



Thats called an illegal search and seizure.

Drug dogs can be called down upon probable cause, this isnt anything new.

Cops aren't always right, nor does the judge always rule in favour of, by giving consent you are giving up all your rights, by saying no to a search you may be saving your entire future.


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Re: Basic Weapons Search [Re: Fospher]
    #4091300 -

Fospher said:
Drug dogs can be called down upon probable cause, this isnt anything new.


I don't think they even need probable cause anymore


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Re: Basic Weapons Search [Re: Fospher]
    #4091463 -

your not grasping the shittieness of this NEW( within the last year )

if you get pulled over, cracked windshield, busted tail lamp, speeding, doing anything worthy of a stop, they can instigate a entire search, not just a general look. drug dogs, detaining you, the works.

and before they did need probable cause to instigate the full search; funny smell, glassy eyes, erratic stories, more realistic PC.


This NEW law has changed the way people work, and people have had to rethink their travel.


and now that i think back i have been patted down before in a general weapon search, and i had a pocket knife, 2.5 inch blade or so, and i told the cop ," that's my knife." and he didn't care, because i wasn't acting all crazy.

just my 2

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Re: Basic Weapons Search [Re: Fospher]
    #4091579 -

What's this new law you keep talking about? Can you name it, or possibly link it?


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Re: Basic Weapons Search [Re: zerozero]
    #4094674 -

> denying a search is terrible advice!!!!

I disagree. "I'm sorry sir, but I am already late for a staff meeting and would hate to loose my job on top of this speeding ticket."

> What's this new law you keep talking about?

It isn't a law, but a ruling by the supreme court. Basically, they said that a cop can use a dog trained to detect illegal drugs to search a car even though there is no probable cause that any crime has been commited. This isn't really anything new... cops have always been making illegal searches... but now they have "permission" to ignore the constitution and do what they have always been doing anyway.

Edit: Look here for more info: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=News&Number=3692115


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Just another spore in the wind.

Edited by Seuss (04/25/05 10:07 AM)

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Re: Basic Weapons Search [Re: Seuss]
    #4097796 -

Can you link us to somewhere that you found out about this court ruling?


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Koala Koolio said:
there should be a 3 month waiting period between registration and posting. :wink:

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Re: Basic Weapons Search [Re: whatever123]
    #4097998 -

> Can you link us to somewhere that you found out about this court ruling?

Warning: The following link goes to a US government site (www.supremecourtus. gov).

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/...4pdf/03-923.pdf
http://www.supremecourtus.gov/oral_arguments/argument_transcripts/03-923.pdf


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Basic Weapons Search [Re: zerozero]
    #4474305 -

Quote:
fact: they are passing laws that stipulate that if pulled over FOR ANY REASON ones car can be searched with a drug dog. period.


You're probably thinking of the recent Supreme Court case Illinois v. Caballes. What you said, however, is only partially true. Police are allowed to get a dog to sniff your car if you are legally pulled over, but they cannot DETAIN you so that the dog has time to show up. To detain you, they still need reasonable suspicion.

What this means is that if the police are really quick and manage to bring the dog in while the officer is still writing your ticket, then it is fair game. But once the original reason for pulling you over has been taken care of, the officer cannot further detain you while waiting for the dog to show up unless the cops have reasonable suspicion you are carrying drugs.

On a related matter, if cops ever violate your rights, you can file civil and criminal charges in Federal court. Violating civil rights under color of law is a Federal misdemeanor that carries a penalty of up to one year in jail and possible civil relief for the plaintiff.


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"...the primary reason to outlaw marihuana is its effect on the degenerate races."
-Harry Anslinger

Edited by votelp2008 (08/04/05 03:33 PM)

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Re: Basic Weapons Search [Re: votelp2008]
    #4479438 -

How long is the detain period last?


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Re: Basic Weapons Search [Re: votelp2008]
    #4480800 -

Just hope you don't get pulled over by a k-9 unit


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Re: Basic Weapons Search [Re: dblaney]
    #4481273 -

dblaney18 said:
Just hope you don't get pulled over by a k-9 unit


i have a feeling that one day the bastards will ALL have a dog ready and waiting in their car, or have K-9 posted in various spots around town waiting for the call.  then they can tip toe right around the dentention time.  :mad2:


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Re: Basic Weapons Search [Re: LeftyBurnz]
    #4482286 -

Wouldn't surprise me a whole lot, the way the nation is headed :frown:

It's sad...and the worst part is...at least another 3 years of this madness (disclaimer: it is only in my opinion that the president of our country is a madman. there are many others, including possibly you, the reader of this, that think he is a genius. while i couldn't disagree with you more, i do respect your opinion, as having differing opinions is what makes America great. although, i do have to question how much longer differing opinions will be allowed)


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Re: Basic Weapons Search [Re: dblaney]
    #4482912 -

I for one vote MADMAN. IMO Bush will probably be the cause of the next world war..... it seems like he has no concience when it comes to pissing off the world.... lets see right now countries that he wants to start a fight with, North Korea, China, syria, iran..... and i dont think the list will stop there.
i honestly cant understand how he won the presidency BOTH times, we all know the first time he was helped out, and im pretty sure he was the second time too. and yeah id give out as many opinions as you can, who knows when bush will try to sign ANTI OPINION into the constitution.


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Re: Basic Weapons Search [Re: LeftyBurnz]
    #4485247 -

leftysurprise said:
dblaney18 said:
Just hope you don't get pulled over by a k-9 unit


i have a feeling that one day the bastards will ALL have a dog ready and waiting in their car, or have K-9 posted in various spots around town waiting for the call.  then they can tip toe right around the dentention time.  :mad2:


Drug dogs are expensive to train and maintain. It would be impossible  for even 10% of the officers to have K-9 partners. For example, a rich police department that I know of has about a 1000 officers, but only about 3 drug-sniffing K-9 units, which means only 0.3% of the officers have K-9 partners. Poorer or smaller departments may have only one dog, or none at all. Also, drug dogs can only work for a short time without getting tired.

Many times when an officer threatens to call in drug dogs, they are just trying to scare you in an effort to get you to consent to a search.


--------------------


"...the primary reason to outlaw marihuana is its effect on the degenerate races."
-Harry Anslinger

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Re: Basic Weapons Search [Re: Fospher]
    #4485256 -

Fospher said:
How long is the detain period last?


As long as they have reasonable suspicion, they can detain you however long it takes for the dogs to arrive.


--------------------


"...the primary reason to outlaw marihuana is its effect on the degenerate races."
-Harry Anslinger

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Re: Basic Weapons Search [Re: LeftyBurnz]
    #4486223 -

Pretty much man :frown:


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Re: Basic Weapons Search [Re: votelp2008]
    #4489243 -

Question answered, thanks for the help.


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010001100100001001000101!

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Re: Basic Weapons Search [Re: Fospher]
    #4606651 -

Heres my opinion on this and a short story to back it up. The cops, at least in my area, pretty much do whatever they want.

About a year and a half ago i was pulled over while walking home from work late one night. I worked about 4 miles from my house and had a suspended license at the time, so I walked. They ran my ID and got my record... which yes includes a misdemeanor possesion charge. As soon as they had that information one of them raised his nose in the air and said "you smell something?" "smells like pot"... Well they searched me, against consent, found a small glass bowl I had in my backpack and made me break it and told me to leave. I assume I wasnt charged for the bowl because of the obviously illegal search... And did I mention this all happened less than a half mile after I entered my home town? I think they have kept thier eye on me for awhile but I stay on the DL. In any case its just one example amoung many of rights abuse in my area(which is a major U.S. city)... Fuck the police.

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Re: Basic Weapons Search [Re: Damos]
    #4616075 -

i've been pulled over 5 times in the last year.. Never searched. No cause to. They cant just do it. A simple traffic infraction is not enough to search a car.

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Re: Basic Weapons Search [Re: ecoman2]
    #4616196 -

It is in the case of Art Garfunkle :shrug:


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Re: Basic Weapons Search [Re: ecoman2]
    #4617503 -

Quote:
ecoman2 said:They cant just do it.  A simple traffic infraction is not enough to search a car.


Don't bet on it.

:sun:


--------------------
Child of the 60's, Tripping ever since.


:sun:

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