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Offlinevalour
Swordbearer

Registered: 03/02/02
Posts: 1,453
Loc: USA
Last seen: 18 years, 1 month
Re: the cop's arm span search [Re: orizon]
    #2233302 - 01/10/04 01:41 PM (20 years, 22 days ago)

Giving the cops the right to search anything is about the equivalent of giving a vampire entrance to your home. It's pretty much an all or nothing proposition, IMEx.


--------------------
"Remember, son,
I didn't sell out-
I bought in."


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OfflineGranola
bag lady

Registered: 05/18/03
Posts: 411
Loc: 50.0N-6.0E
Last seen: 18 years, 4 months
Re: the cop's arm span search [Re: nife]
    #2235114 - 01/11/04 04:48 PM (20 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

nife said:
Nope actually if you tell him politely to talk to your lawyer before he continues a search he is obligated to, assuming he doesn't have a search warrent./quote]

Probable Cause, all he needs is the ability to articulate suspicion that you are in possession of contraband, things like drugs, illegal aliens and excessive amounts of money. Warrant not needed and cops are notorious for making up laws on the spot to coerce you into a consentual search (CS can be revoked at any time)and having a lawyer does no good on the road side, to use that ploy you will be going to jail.


Quote:

Explain that you don't think you need to be searched and that if the cop feels differently he can explain the justification to your laywer. NEVER be rude to a cop thats the bottom line. If you are polite but firm that you do not think that a search is warrented then most likely they will not press the matter.




They will push it in many instances, with or with out a warrant, they base it on the way you look, tatoos, long hair, piercings and a list of other crap. Discrimination? sort of, it's profiling. Regardless of how polite you are some cops will push it and the first time you mention 'lawyer' but your ass he will push further and harder.

Quote:

BTW for a k-9 search they need your permission or a search warrent. So the same still holds they have to ask you or get a judge to sign a search warrent. Without cause. at least as far as I've ben told by my lawyer. This could be wrong or just hold true for certian circumstances




The US Supreme court made a ruling determining that if you are stopped for a standard traffic stop, the cop can hold you for up to an hour to wait for a K-9 unit. Once your license is returned during a stop you are then free to leave, if he detains you longer he has violated your rights.

You can refuse to stay if your ID is back in your posession but the cop can give you a Hobsons Choice, the cop gives you the option to leave but your car has to remain. Outrageous you say, well aparently it's legal and then they have all the time they want to get a K-9

Most cops follow department policy for K-9 searches, it's usualy stricter than the law. Generaly the dog is used as a threat, if you fold and consent he knows you have something he may wait for the dog to make it easy or may have been bluffing. You hold your ground and K-9 arrives and the handler has the option to refuse the K-9 'sniff'
(law dictates that any thing detected from the outside of the vehicle gives Probable Cause to do a search).

K-9 is a cop, it doesn't have the right to enter the vehicle unless he 'hits' on something.

Do not have drugs in your car, do not have them on your person while you are driving. Leave them at home. Should it be unaviodable and you must carry something in your car, place it in a difficult to access area of the car thats on the out side, this gives you a little opening for 'it's not mine and I have no idea'. Even a bad lawyer can get you off on that one. and never ever ever mention selling anything or narc out anyone.


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OfflineGranola
bag lady

Registered: 05/18/03
Posts: 411
Loc: 50.0N-6.0E
Last seen: 18 years, 4 months
Re: the cop's arm span search [Re: valour]
    #2235120 - 01/11/04 04:54 PM (20 years, 21 days ago)

I've given and refused permission for a search lots of times, it's no big deal hust know that your clean or have an out, some wont even search if you talk with them a little, listen for their little traps like asking if you are in posession of and drugs, guns, grenades or what ever, crack a joke back that doesnt involve donuts.


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Invisibleplura16
ROM3/10 SOLID

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 574
Loc: U.S.A.
Re: the cop's arm span search [Re: four20snakeman]
    #2253371 - 01/19/04 04:09 PM (20 years, 13 days ago)

theres something called "specific and articulable facts". this means they cant be all " hmm he looks suspicious - lets search or bust his ass." they need to have something on you - you know -- however theres also the real world of police unfortonately.(usually they try and do wtf they wanna do -- relying on the fact that they think you dont know shit about the laws-- which is most likely true for most of us)

if a cop trys to "arm span" his arm into your ride -- fingerspan your finger to the window button, and crunch his forearm in the window.

then act like you were looking for your wallet.

peace


--------------------

- USA -


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 19 days
Re: the cop's arm span search [Re: plura16]
    #2255136 - 01/20/04 04:38 AM (20 years, 12 days ago)

> your finger to the window button, and crunch his forearm in the window

With some of todays trigger happy police, that is a good way to get shot.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineMagus
Dazed

Registered: 01/28/04
Posts: 36
Loc: Midwest USA
Last seen: 18 years, 10 months
Re: the cop's arm span search [Re: four20snakeman]
    #2284411 - 01/29/04 03:11 PM (20 years, 3 days ago)

Ive heard of Arm Span Searches. The justification for them is that if you have a gun you could hide it anywhere within your arm span. Thus, if the officer has reason to believe you are a threat, they can search for a weapon. Same logic behind pat-downs. That's how I think the theory goes at least.

At any rate, if that's true, then cops will abuse it. Well duh.

http://www.erowid.org/freedom/police/police_consent1.shtml

There's an interesting article about what cops can and can't do, and the best way to say no to a situation where a cop pulls you over and wants to search your car.


--------------------
Disclaimer:

1. When I use the word "I", it means a friend of a friend wants me to ask. The word "I" simply cuts down on the amount of letters I need to type.

2. I do not engage in illegal activities. I am appaled by all of you and your apparent disregard for the law.


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