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Terence McKenna & Robert Hunter
    #3537573 -

I don't know if many of you have read this yet but I just stumbled upon it.  It's a dialogue between Robert Hunter (best known as lyricist for Grateful Dead) and Terence McKenna, whose philosophy has really sparked my interest recently.  In this dialogue they discuss DMT, the psychedlic experience (well duh  :smirk:), litterature, travel, etc.  A good read for any of you interested in either of these two people.

http://www.levity.com/orfeo/index.part1.html


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Goin' where the water tastes like wine.

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Re: Terence McKenna & Robert Hunter [Re: kosmic_charlie]
    #3537579 -

cool looks like some nice bed-time reading!

g'night!


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Re: Terence McKenna & Robert Hunter [Re: kosmic_charlie]
    #3537589 -

THis is interesting, particularly what McKenna writes. Hunter has a sloppier way of communicating whereas McKenna speaks with eloquence and to-the-pointness.

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Re: Terence McKenna & Robert Hunter [Re: World Spirit]
    #3537608 -

Yeah but I think that's because Hunter's art is communicating ideas through prose rather than through a direct, conversational form of communicating. Just read a song by him like Black Peter. That is Hunter's way of describing the psyechedlic experience:

Black Peter

All of my friends come to see me last night
I was layin' in my bed and dyin'
Annie Bonneau, from Saint Angel,
Say the weather down here, so fine


Just then the wind came squalling through the dark
But who can the weather command
Just want to have a little peace to die
And a friend or two I love at hand

Fever roll up to a hundred and five
Roll on up, gonna roll back down
One more day, I find myself alive
Tomorrow, maybe go beneath the ground

See here how everything lead up to this day
And it's just like any other day that's ever been
Sun goin' up and then, the sun, it goin' down
Shine through my window and my friends they come around
Come around, come around


The people might know, but the people don't care
That a man can be as poor as me
Take a look at poor Peter, he's lyin' in pain
Now, let's go run and see
Run and see.


.
.
.

That song is really abstract in describing the psychedelic experience but he supposedly wrote it after taking a HUGE amount of LSD and felt like he "died a thousand deaths" or something to that effect. Terence, on the other hand, was a great speaker/lecturer and like you pointed out I think that shows in this dialgue between him and Hunter.


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Goin' where the water tastes like wine.

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Re: Terence McKenna & Robert Hunter [Re: kosmic_charlie]
    #3537653 -

I've listened to a bit of the Dead and I'd have to say that Hunter seems quite dreamy and difficult to interpret, but such is the way of most rock n roll songs. That is why its rock n roll. It just kind of comes up free-verse and some of it makes powerful sense with the music itself, while other sentences give the song ryhme and fluidity without making a whole lot of sense.

What did you think of McKenna's "Foods of the Gods"?

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Re: Terence McKenna & Robert Hunter [Re: World Spirit]
    #3537686 -

I only became interested in him really recently (like last week). I was coming down from an acid trip and I stumbled upon that site with all those audio downloads of him. I listened to Tree of Knowledge and many others. I plan on reading Food of the Gods soon. I might get this hardcover with Food of the Gods and Invisible Landscape. So although I have yet to read FOTG, I have at least been introduced to many of his theories. They fascinate the hell out of me, especially his vision of how our ancient ancestors may have lived in a world without the presence of ego due to daily mushroom ingestion. And he thinks that mushrooms may have resulted in the doubling of brain size in such a short time span. It's all very interesting but I don't know how much actual evidence we have gathered that leads to such conclusions. But I'm not ruling anyhting out. I'm also interested of course in his interpretations of the psychedelic experience and the significance he places on it. His time wave theory seems a bit out there but I have to investigate that a little more. What did you think of FOTG?


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Goin' where the water tastes like wine.

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Re: Terence McKenna & Robert Hunter [Re: kosmic_charlie]
    #3537698 -

Great stuff!

thanks for the link!


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The bus came by and I got on that's when it all began!


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Re: Terence McKenna & Robert Hunter [Re: Ripple]
    #3537704 -

Hey Ripple. Merry Christmas. That goes for all of you.


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Goin' where the water tastes like wine.

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Re: Terence McKenna & Robert Hunter [Re: kosmic_charlie]
    #3537713 -

I honestly did not read it all. There are several one-liners that are pretty powerful and a couple of photos that speak a million words. One photo in particular shows two south American young man from a tribe with a dmt snuffer. It's difficult to say this sentence without sounding wierd so give me the benefit of the doubt: these two guys look so-o-o-o-o alive. They look healthy and vibrant, like they're having fun and just being normal - yet their getting up on DMT thru an intense snuff experience.

McKenna got into a lot of stuff it would appear - and I don't just mean psychedelics. I mean aliens, alchemy, religion, spirituality, history, sociology, - basically every category. So when you read his stuff, its not like reading this start-to-finish essay on one subject. It's more like going thru the mind of a stoned philosopher and hearing his opinion on a billion subjects at once.
He makes sense, although I don't agree with some of the things he says. He's definitely far more coherent in writing skill than Hunter, although I like them both just the same.

Alien Dreamtime is on DVD btw.

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Re: Terence McKenna & Robert Hunter [Re: World Spirit]
    #3537716 -

Yes, Merry Xmas to all you guys out there. And the 3 girls on this site too of course.  :smirk: :grin: :sun:

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Re: Terence McKenna & Robert Hunter [Re: kosmic_charlie]
    #3537717 -

You too bro!

I made a merry christmas post for the top of the forum! :smile:


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The bus came by and I got on that's when it all began!


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Re: Terence McKenna & Robert Hunter [Re: kosmic_charlie]
    #3538340 -

I bought that hard cover a couple months back, I haven't read it yet, I'm going to have to check it out. Probably after my semi-annual psycedelic christmas. Happy Holidays, sorry I can't do NYE.

Edited by Adom (12/24/04 08:06 AM)

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Re: Terence McKenna & Robert Hunter [Re: Adom]
    #3538414 -

Yeah I waited too long to buy my ticket and now it's sold out so I don't know what the hell I'm doing for NYE.  The rave thing aint happening either this year, which is what I did the last 4 years and was always fun beyond description.  Sad.

Sorry KK.  :frown:


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Goin' where the water tastes like wine.

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Re: Terence McKenna & Robert Hunter [Re: kosmic_charlie]
    #3538422 -

That stinks man, sorry to hear that. A NYE ticket is nearly impossible to manifest.

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Re: Terence McKenna & Robert Hunter [Re: kosmic_charlie]
    #3538601 -

kosmic_charlie said:
Sorry KK.  :frown:


its all good bro!

and thanks for the good read!

:smile:


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Stay Kool, and enjoy the bus ride.....



"Intrepid Search For Innerspace"

DAVID JONES where are you?

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Re: Terence McKenna & Robert Hunter [Re: kosmic_charlie]
    #3538907 -

yeah, I've read that before & a have a local copy saved. I think everyone who can (and has in interest in collecting/archiving cool recordings) to visit http://mckenna.psychedelic-library.org and download every .mp3 there and save it locally. you never know if that site will go down due to a lack of funds/interest. Keep these recordings circulating.

If you use windows I recommend this download manager: http://www.freshdevices.com/download_large_files.html

set Freshdownload for each .mp3 and it'll automatically get each file.

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Re: Terence McKenna & Robert Hunter [Re: kosmic_charlie]
    #3539656 -

DMT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i first saw this a long time ago, probably on dmt world or soemthing
my two favorite quotes by robert hunter about dmt

"DMT is for those with a desperate need to know, and, among those, for only a small percentage whose neural wiring happens to be heavy gauge with appropriate sheathing. Nobody ever got rich peddling DMT. It was only always passed from hand to hand outside normal "drug ring" circles. It is, to LSD, as 198 proof rum is to hot milk with a few drops of brandy."

and

"DMT is self-selecting. It knows who it wants, for whatever reasons it wants them, and scares the bejezus out of anyone else. Those who ought to have it will find themselves in possession of it, like anything else"


plus i reaaally like this nitrous quote
"The sirens and chattering of the void took me to that almost but never quite nitrous surround, the place where All is One with a vengeance and there's always one last detail to realize before the universal riddle is completely solved"


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:shocked: *Divine Moments of Truth* :shocked:


"Limitless undying love which shines around me like a million suns - it calls me on and on across the universe" ~ John Lennon

"Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right" ~The Grateful Dead

"Religionists, with their guaranteed eventual paradise, of which they know nothing, taking it all on 'faith,' can't be expected to understand or sympathize with those with a yen to storm the Gate of Heaven and see for themselves what all the praying's about!" ~Robert Hunter

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Re: Terence McKenna & Robert Hunter [Re: Help on the Way]
    #3540109 -

cool i finished reading through all this... really cool to see how the two mingle together life, psychedelics, travels, and philosophers they've read to talk about some very interesting issues in a very informal way. however, robert hunter is a bit wrong in some of the comments he makes about Wittgenstein. Well, not wrong - but he is quoting Wittgenstein's Tractatus Logicus and McKenna says that he has been pre-dispositioned against Wittgenstein because of something he read in Whitehead... but if you read Wittgenstein's later works (the Blue and Brown books, mainly), he completely does away with all the postulates he makes in the Tractatus . (yeah i paid too much attention in philosophy class :smile: )

so other than that little point (maybe i should mail robert hunter and tell him to read these later books of Wittgenstein?), i thought it was a damn nice conversation. i read it before falling asleep last night, and had dreams of doing ayuhuasca with an old friend of mine who is from Brazil, and then rafting down some amazonian river with him :smile:


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Re: Terence McKenna & Robert Hunter [Re: Krishna]
    #3540147 -

That didn't happen to be on the more popular ayahuasca retreats than Jonathon Ott attends, was it?

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Re: Terence McKenna & Robert Hunter [Re: World Spirit]
    #3540153 -

i dunno - who is Jonathon Ott? in my dream i was sitting in my friend's apartment in sao paulo, we drank the brew, and the next "scene" was the two of us (plus many phantom-like things) on a raft going down this river in the thickness of a jungle...


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Re: Terence McKenna & Robert Hunter [Re: Krishna]
    #3540159 -

Next time you go I hereby humbly demand an invitation, Krishna.  :smile:
As for Jonathon Ott, if you like Robert Hunter and Terrence McKenna you should equally like Jonathon Ott. He wrote the somewhat popular psychedlic text "Pharmocotheon."

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Re: Terence McKenna & Robert Hunter [Re: World Spirit]
    #3540164 -

cool i'll check it out.

i've got the long term plan (my guess is in 3, but maybe 2 years) of going and living with my friend in Sao Paulo for a year, to learn brazilian portuguese (in my opinion, the most beautiful of all languages) and reunite with him (haven't seen him in 1.5 years now :sad: ) so when that happens, if we're both still around these cyber-parts, you're more than welcome to come to visit! unfortunately most of the indigenous people living in the Brazilian rainforest are near extinction, but he told me that there are groups that hold ayuhuasca retreats in the countryside outside of Sao Paulo a few times a year, so that is definitely one of my plans for that year!


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Re: Terence McKenna & Robert Hunter [Re: Krishna]
    #3540166 -

glad to hear it. I would love to visit South America and experience new things...

Here's a link to that book if you want it...

http://www.erowid.org/library/books/pharmacotheon.shtml

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Re: Terence McKenna & Robert Hunter [Re: World Spirit]
    #3540204 -

man erowid kicks so much ass!!!

EDIT: awwww i thought it was going to be a full-text copy of the book online! oh well, erowid still rocks :smile:


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Edited by Krishna (12/24/04 06:50 PM)

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Re: Terence McKenna & Robert Hunter [Re: Krishna]
    #3540236 -

That book is probably too big to ever go online. Its roughly 750 pages if I'm not mistaken, although I haven't had a copy in my possession for over a year now.

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Re: Terence McKenna & Robert Hunter [Re: Vvellum]
    #3540364 -

Thanks BiO..... :smile:


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The bus came by and I got on that's when it all began!


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