|
Silverwolf
sandtrout


Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 1,108
Loc: Darkover
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
|
Terence McKenna and "The Civilisation Prejudice " (1946-2000 R.I.P)
#5325912 - 02/21/06 08:43 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
I have been reading and pretty much enjoying T.McKenna's "The Archaic Revival" however (and I quote).."There have been psilocybin mushrooms reported from England and France, localities where, as far as we know there is no history of usage at all." (I despair sometimes) he then goes on to say "Hallucinogens are hardly welcome in agricultural societies." Which is at the very least contentious. Honestly "Tel" get a grip!
(Dear Shroomerites I am leaving this thread as I originally began it before I knew of this lovely man's death -see P.2-)
-------------------- "Odrade read the word silently and then aloud. "Arafel." She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources. "Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""
Edited by Silverwolf (02/24/06 05:36 PM)
|
Koala Koolio
TTAGGGTTAGGGTTAGGGTTAGGG

Registered: 01/07/04
Posts: 7,752
|
Re: "Mr.Terence Mckenna !" [Re: Silverwolf]
#5326437 - 02/21/06 11:04 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
).."There have been psilocybin mushrooms reported from England and France, localities where, as far as we know there is no history of usage at all."
Historical usage, like in mexico.
"Hallucinogens are hardly welcome in agricultural societies."
He goes on to explain this in better detail. Off the top of my head he was speaking about the beginning of agricultural society in the first place. The settling down of man and formation of community, as opposed to the wandering hunters he was speaking of shortly before. His theories about a hallucinogen dissolving the ego, and the sex related things as well as the male "property" attitude are quite interesting.
Still, I don't know why he insists that mushrooms were the substance for any reason beyond the fact that he likes them. It could've been one of lots of different hallucinogenic plants. That, and the fact that I don't think there is much history of psilocybin mushrooms in africa besides that which developed into our transkei strain. Even so, that was in south africa. He does little to back up this idea.
-------------------- You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!
|
Silverwolf
sandtrout


Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 1,108
Loc: Darkover
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
|
Re: "Mr.Terence Mckenna !" [Re: Koala Koolio]
#5327835 - 02/22/06 12:20 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
elgr said: ).."There have been psilocybin mushrooms reported from England and France, localities where, as far as we know there is no history of usage at all."
Historical usage, like in mexico.
"Hallucinogens are hardly welcome in agricultural societies."
He goes on to explain this in better detail. Off the top of my head he was speaking about the beginning of agricultural society in the first place. The settling down of man and formation of community, as opposed to the wandering hunters he was speaking of shortly before. His theories about a hallucinogen dissolving the ego, and the sex related things as well as the male "property" attitude are quite interesting.
Still, I don't know why he insists that mushrooms were the substance for any reason beyond the fact that he likes them. It could've been one of lots of different hallucinogenic plants. That, and the fact that I don't think there is much history of psilocybin mushrooms in africa besides that which developed into our transkei strain. Even so, that was in south africa. He does little to back up this idea.
Holy Jesus! Are both of you saying that Mesolithic Brethonic Society wasn't predicated on the ritualistic shamanic use of psilocybe semilanceata and amanita muscaria* (a substance which he goes on to term "unreliable" as an hallucinogen -please T shamanic vibrational contact withthe symbiote and application to it's preparation are essential for the use of amanita muscaria !-)? OOOOh there's so much in this particular chapter I disagree with, for a self-proclaimed Goddess worshiper he has a patriachal view of human evolution (more to follow with quotes when I've stopped steaming !)......
*Note: I have raised the question of the Mesolithic use of psilocybe cyanascens onsite before. There obviously has not been enough research done on the ritual use of psilocybe mushrooms in the Mesolithic period in Britain because I have been unable to establish whether our p.cyanascens is a different (European) strain of cyanascens, if it is a truly indigenous mushroom or if not how long it has been growing here.
-------------------- "Odrade read the word silently and then aloud. "Arafel." She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources. "Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""
Edited by Silverwolf (09/06/06 02:14 PM)
|
eligal
Noobie


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 7,021
Loc: California
|
Re: "Mr.Terence Mckenna !" [Re: Silverwolf]
#5327855 - 02/22/06 12:24 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
i saw it all in a dream
-------------------- \m/ Spanksta \m/ "do you have the freedom to do with your nervous system what you want?" "MolokoMilkPlus said: I'll respect you if you let me give you a blow job" "tactik said: respect the can."
|
Silverwolf
sandtrout


Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 1,108
Loc: Darkover
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
|
Re: "Mr.Terence Mckenna !" [Re: eligal]
#5327938 - 02/22/06 12:48 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
eligal said: i saw it all in a dream
Then man you're only dreaming!
-------------------- "Odrade read the word silently and then aloud. "Arafel." She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources. "Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""
|
eligal
Noobie


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 7,021
Loc: California
|
Re: "Mr.Terence Mckenna !" [Re: Silverwolf]
#5327954 - 02/22/06 12:52 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
but who says dreams arent real?
-------------------- \m/ Spanksta \m/ "do you have the freedom to do with your nervous system what you want?" "MolokoMilkPlus said: I'll respect you if you let me give you a blow job" "tactik said: respect the can."
|
Silverwolf
sandtrout


Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 1,108
Loc: Darkover
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
|
Re: "Mr.Terence Mckenna !" [Re: eligal]
#5327979 - 02/22/06 12:57 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
eligal said: but who says dreams arent real?
Anyway, the "New Dimensions" Interview this came from took place over twenty years ago so some of my following comments may not now apply.
-------------------- "Odrade read the word silently and then aloud. "Arafel." She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources. "Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""
Edited by Silverwolf (02/22/06 01:00 PM)
|
eligal
Noobie


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 7,021
Loc: California
|
Re: "Mr.Terence Mckenna !" [Re: Silverwolf]
#5327992 - 02/22/06 12:59 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
but who says it was my choice to experience it?
-------------------- \m/ Spanksta \m/ "do you have the freedom to do with your nervous system what you want?" "MolokoMilkPlus said: I'll respect you if you let me give you a blow job" "tactik said: respect the can."
|
Silverwolf
sandtrout


Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 1,108
Loc: Darkover
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
|
Re: "Mr.Terence Mckenna !" [Re: eligal]
#5328001 - 02/22/06 01:02 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
I did!
-------------------- "Odrade read the word silently and then aloud. "Arafel." She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources. "Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""
|
eligal
Noobie


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 7,021
Loc: California
|
Re: "Mr.Terence Mckenna !" [Re: Silverwolf]
#5328007 - 02/22/06 01:02 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
thats not cool man
-------------------- \m/ Spanksta \m/ "do you have the freedom to do with your nervous system what you want?" "MolokoMilkPlus said: I'll respect you if you let me give you a blow job" "tactik said: respect the can."
|
Silverwolf
sandtrout


Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 1,108
Loc: Darkover
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
|
Re: "Mr.Terence Mckenna !" [Re: eligal]
#5328075 - 02/22/06 01:23 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
eligal said: thats not cool man

You know McKenna's problem don't you ? He comes from a school of western academia which partakes of both Hinayana and Mahayana but is unable to conceive of both processes as occuring simultaneously. It is the "Greek Conceit" (ain't it ladies ?) with which I am mostly concerned however, that is the notion that the city state represents human society's highest form of organisation. "There have been psilocybin mushrooms reported from England and France, localities where, so far as we know, there is no cultural history of usage at all. However, it's interesting that cultural usage seems to come early in human history. Hallucinogens are hardly welcome in agricultural societies. I think it was Weston La Barre who made the point that once one learns how to grow plants one's gods shift from the ecstatic gods of the hallucinogens to the corn god or the food god, and life is no longer about divining the hunt and the weather through the ecstatic use of hallucinogens. Rather it becomes about being able to get up every morning and go work and hoe the crop. You mentioned earlier the prejudice against hallucinogens. I think cultural suppresion of hallucinogens reaches back to the beginning of agriculture when there was competition among plant gods that exemplified life-styles that were alien to each other." From P.164 Chapter 11 "New Dimensions" Interview (with Michael Toms) "The Archaic Revival" by Terence McKenna (published by Harper Collins).
McKenna is "yet another" perveyor of the notion that agriculural societies were of necessity static and that somehow once man had settled down into the passive-aggressive state McKenna implies it "limp-wristedy" wanted no further part of the plant hallucinogens and infact had no further need for them. It is my belief that even if this were true in other regions of the world it certainly was not true of the Brethonic Mesolithic society (the very society he accuses of having no cultural history of psychedelic shamanism). His notion that the shamanic use of psychedelics was only applied to the location of prey species or the prediction of weather patterns is an intensely patriachal one. This "traditional" academic attitude toward Brethonic society also partakes of "The Egyptian Conceit" which is the notion that a permanent written record of events is a prerequisite for describing a society as "civilised" (and you see I'm doing it now I don't mean "civilised", which is a term derived from Greek which refers to the political/social organisation and institutions of the city state, the more accurate term, although still Greek in origin, being -at least as far as modern usage is concerned-"sophisticated" ). Any theory of shamanistic practice which does not involve the understanding of the vibrational use of plants, crystals and minerals is redundant in any case and I have never seen, or heard, McKenna make any mention of it. The thing is guys that I believe this sort of stuff represents a real warning to modern society, The Earth cries out to be heard! Spend much more time in denial and we will all be in de' bloody Nile!!! Kernunnos, Arianrhod Ogmyos -from whose mouth proceed the chains of Ogham !-. You see people on a "vision quest" are of necessity externalising their spiritual universe (sorry Terence but it's true) only sound (or vibration) can draw us back into the "Other". Interestingly The Mahayanan Tibetans (Mahayana: Buddhists who believe that personal salvation is achieved by devoting one's efforts to Universal salvation, as opposed to the Hinayana who believe that Universal salvation is achieved by devoting oneself to personal salvation -put probably over-simply for any devotees of either-) follow a meditative practice which insists that one keeps one's eyes open whilst meditating (for non-McKenna students this refers to his oft stated and truly worthy practice of practicing most of his shamanistic art in silent darkness and watching the visionary displays he encounters on the back of closed eyelids).
....and why? why? why? guys does America and Europe (but America primarily) often seem to ignore the travelling culture whose "Convoy" organised and maintained The Stonehenge Free Festival of the Seventies and Eighties? There is stuff we did (and still do) that alot of your guys seem totally unaware of, you'd get the impresion that we were so "unhip" our "bums" fell off!
-------------------- "Odrade read the word silently and then aloud. "Arafel." She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources. "Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""
Edited by Silverwolf (09/05/06 04:51 PM)
|
eligal
Noobie


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 7,021
Loc: California
|
Re: "Mr.Terence Mckenna !" [Re: Silverwolf]
#5328084 - 02/22/06 01:28 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
and this makes you cool how?
-------------------- \m/ Spanksta \m/ "do you have the freedom to do with your nervous system what you want?" "MolokoMilkPlus said: I'll respect you if you let me give you a blow job" "tactik said: respect the can."
|
Koala Koolio
TTAGGGTTAGGGTTAGGGTTAGGG

Registered: 01/07/04
Posts: 7,752
|
Re: "Mr.Terence Mckenna !" [Re: eligal]
#5328095 - 02/22/06 01:32 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
-------------------- You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!
|
Silverwolf
sandtrout


Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 1,108
Loc: Darkover
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
|
Re: "Mr.Terence Mckenna !" [Re: Koala Koolio]
#5328134 - 02/22/06 01:49 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
-------------------- "Odrade read the word silently and then aloud. "Arafel." She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources. "Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""
|
PinballWizard
Naive and Gullible as usual

Registered: 03/20/04
Posts: 2,804
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
|
Re: "Mr.Terence Mckenna !" [Re: eligal]
#5328188 - 02/22/06 02:11 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Last night I had a dream that I woke up and did something very wrong. I then searched for a potion I had hid somewhere that could turn back time. I finally found and drank it, then woke up. Was this a dream?
|
eligal
Noobie


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 7,021
Loc: California
|
|
we will never know. learn from it son. learn from it.
-------------------- \m/ Spanksta \m/ "do you have the freedom to do with your nervous system what you want?" "MolokoMilkPlus said: I'll respect you if you let me give you a blow job" "tactik said: respect the can."
|
Phoshaman
Litteringannnnddddd?


Registered: 06/01/99
Posts: 1,557
Loc: FLAHHHIDAAA
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
|
Re: "Mr.Terence Mckenna !" [Re: Silverwolf]
#5330130 - 02/22/06 11:33 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Silverwolf said:
Quote:
eligal said: thats not cool man

You know McKenna's problem don't you ? He comes from a school of western academ which partakes of both Hinayana and Mahayana but is unable to observe both processes as occuring simultaneously. It is the "Greek Conceit" (ain't it ladies ?) with which I am mostly concerned however, that is the notion that the city state represents human society's highest form of organisation. "There have been psilocybin mushrooms reported from England and France, localities where, so far as we know, there is no cultural history of usage at all. However, it's interesting that cultural usage seems to come early in human history. Hallucinogens are hardly welcome in agricultural societies. I think it was Weston La Barre who made the point that once one learns how to grow plants one's gods shift from the ecstatic gods of the hallucinogens to the corn god or the food god, and life is no longer about divining the hunt and the weather through the ecstatic use of hallucinogens. Rather it becomes about being able to get up every morning and go work and hoe the crop. You mentioned earlier the prejudice against hallucinogens. I think cultural suppresion of hallucinogens reaches back to the beginning of agriculture when there was competition among plant gods that exemplified life-styles that were alien to each other." From P.164 Chapter 11 "New Dimensions" Interview (with Michael Toms) "The Archaic Revival" by Terence McKenna (published by Harper Collins).
This kind of thing exemplifies the notion that agriculural societies were of necessity static and that somehow once man had settled down into the passive-aggressive state McKenna implies it "limp-wristedy" wanted no further part of the plant hallucinogens and infact had no further need for them. It is my belief that even if this were true in other regions of the world it certainly was not true of the Brethonic Mesolithic society (the very society he accuses of having no cultural history of psychedelic shamanism). His notion that the shamanic use of psychedelics was only applied to the location of prey species or the prediction of weather patterns is an intensely patriachal one. This "traditional" academic attitude toward Brethonic society also partakes of "The Egyptian Conceit" which is the notion that a permanent written record of events is a prerequisite for describing a society as "civilised" (and you see I'm doing it now I don't mean "civilised", which is a term derived from Greek which refers to the political/social organisation and institutions of the city state, the more accurate term, although still Greek in origin, being -at least as far as modern usage is concerned-"sophisticated" ). Any theory of shamanistic practice which does not involve the understanding of the vibrational use of plants, crystals and minerals is redundant in any case and I have never seen, or heard, McKenna make any mention of it. The thing is guys that I believe this sort of stuff represents a real warning to modern society, The Earth cries out to be heard! Spend much more time in denial and we will all be in de' bloody Nile!!! Kernunnos, Arianrhod Ogmyos -from whose mouth proceed the chains of Ogham !-. You see people on a "vision quest" are of necessity externalising their spiritual universe (sorry Terence but it's true) only sound (or vibration) can draw us back into the "Other". Interestingly The Mahayanan Tibetans (Mahayana: Buddhists who believe that personal salvation is achieved by devoting one's efforts to Universal salvation. As opposed to the Hinayana who believe that Universal salvation is achieved by devoting oneself to personal salvation -put probably over-simply for any devotees of either-) follow a meditative practice which insists that one keeps one's eyes open whilst meditating (for non-McKenna students this refers to his oft stated and truly worthy practice of practicing most of his shamanistic art in silent darkness and watching the visionary displays he encounters on the back of closed eyelids).
....and why? why? why? guys does America and Europe (but America primarily) often seem to ignore the travelling culture whose "Convoy" organised and maintained The Stonehenge Free Festival of the Seventies and Eighties? There is stuff we did (and still do) that alot of your guys seem totally unaware of, you'd get the impresion that we were so "unhip" our "bums" fell off!
why are you so bent out of shape about this? terence never forced an opinion on anyone, and always let people know that this is JUST HIS OPINION and he admits that he may very well be wrong with every theory of his.
he was a thinker, he never claimed to be a prophet, a lot of people just put him up on a pedestal and worship him as one tho.
rest in peace.
--------------------
|
eligal
Noobie


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 7,021
Loc: California
|
Re: "Mr.Terence Mckenna !" [Re: Phoshaman]
#5330158 - 02/22/06 11:41 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
He was a thinker,
for the prophet is I
-------------------- \m/ Spanksta \m/ "do you have the freedom to do with your nervous system what you want?" "MolokoMilkPlus said: I'll respect you if you let me give you a blow job" "tactik said: respect the can."
|
Silverwolf
sandtrout


Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 1,108
Loc: Darkover
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
|
Re: "Mr.Terence Mckenna !" [Re: eligal]
#5332238 - 02/23/06 04:35 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Man no shit! I didn't know he was dead (I came on here today to find out though because my friends told me they had heard he was dead)! However I wouldn't change the meaning of what I said, I may however have not have said it now or in quite the same way. Did he die very recently ? What a bummer whenever he went, I liked the man very much from what I knew of him (he has been an inspiration to me). I guess he leaves quite a vacuum.
Om bhur bhuvah swaha Terence
(You guys know I've been here a few years now and active onsite since last October and I saw nothing to alert me to the fact that he had died. Can anyone give us any details please?)
-------------------- "Odrade read the word silently and then aloud. "Arafel." She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources. "Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""
Edited by Silverwolf (02/27/06 11:25 AM)
|
Koala Koolio
TTAGGGTTAGGGTTAGGGTTAGGG

Registered: 01/07/04
Posts: 7,752
|
Re: "Mr.Terence Mckenna !" [Re: Silverwolf]
#5332342 - 02/23/06 05:12 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Brain cancer, 2001 I think.
-------------------- You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!
|
|