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OfflineSource
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Mastering The Sexual Drive
    #3403441 - 11/24/04 01:50 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

It seems to me that for a spirituality board this topic is not covered very much. So, what do you think? How important is it spiritually speaking to master our sexual drive?

The predominant attitude here APPEARS to be that of freedom. We don't want to hear any moral lambasting about being celibate or controlling our desires...we want to be free. Much of this attitude may be attributed to the fact that many here have left behind fundamentalist beliefs and aren't willing to pick up any of that baggage again.

But where is the freedom in letting sex control us? Is not obsessively succumbing to physical sexual release nothing more than a form of bondage?

I don't think it is healthy or wise to try to just squash the sexual drive, but maybe there is a way to transmute it internally so that the creative force that is the source of the physical sex drive can be used for 'higher' purposes like those of artistic creation or even a higher degree of spiritual realization.

This is, I believe, the main goal of sexual tantra. Those who practice tantra do not (as far as I know) actually reach physical orgasm. Instead, they transmute the energy that would normally be released physically and pull it up into the higher centers to be used for 'spiritual' purposes.

By not allowing the sexual energy to escape through orgasm, the emphasis on reaching climax is removed and the actual act of making love is extended as the experience is grounded in the here and now...rather than being seen as a way to get to climax.

The fact is that controlling and mastering the sexual drive is an important component of many if not all spiritual paths. Why have we dropped it? Are we missing out on a powerful practice?

Is it possible to live in a state where internally we are having a sexual tantric experience with the universe at all times - continually pouring out our creative energies into the void or womb of existence? Perhaps there is a higher form of sexuality waiting for us if we can just let go of releasing sexual energy through animalistic channels.

If anyone has any information on this, please share!


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What you're searching for is what's searching.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Mastering The Sexual Drive [Re: Source]
    #3403523 - 11/24/04 02:08 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

one can visit some states that are orgasmic.
not sure you can count on living anywhere indefinitely.


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OfflineWhiteRussian
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Re: Mastering The Sexual Drive [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3403624 - 11/24/04 02:35 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

imo, spiritually speaking, not at all. What your saying is like taking an orgasm and turning it into a huge chunk of energy, but realize, it will not last, like most people talk about shrooms, they feel great afterwards, but it doesnt last, its all in your head, remember? :P


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aaaaaahhhhh


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Mastering The Sexual Drive [Re: WhiteRussian]
    #3403877 - 11/24/04 03:21 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Mastering any desire is equal to another

To want sex, is something that in my honest (and highly subjective :wink:) opinion is a hindrance to spiritual awareness. The actual action is inert. It is meaningless. You can fuck a thousand people and still hold onto your recieved truth, but likewise you can remain 100% celibrate and not see any truth.

It is about becoming aware to why we feel desires for things, and then thinking outside of our limited reward system and attempting to view our place within a muuuuch larger system.

If you want my personal 'experience', I have never had sex. (insert loud gasps from audience members). The opportunity has been available, had I wished to act on it, but it seriously is not something I put much of my awareness and attention into. If someone wants to, then so be it, but sex is not some universal reward of ecstacy, it is biological reproduction. I don't want to sound like a 'bummer', but I personally stand behind desires, in a detached way, to view them as a concept rather than a drive.

So, imo, it's the concept of sex our society has taken that is such a hindrace to spiritual awareness and not actual reproduction. Look at the condom market, the sex toy market, the pornography market. These are all animated distractions of desire. No real movement is taking place, only regression to the comfort of our pleasures. I say, fuck fucking, let's realize what we are living for before we spread it like a cheap vodka.  :cool:


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OfflineSource
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Re: Mastering The Sexual Drive [Re: deff]
    #3403915 - 11/24/04 03:32 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

*GASP!*

I agree, the desire for sex can be grouped in with desire in general and of course desire leads to suffering. But there is something about the desire for sex that seems to me to be very fundamental. Perhaps mastering the desire for sex will result in a greater ability to shrug off other desires. Kind of like going to the root.

Another reason that I see sex as a particularly important urge to master is because of the sheer amount of energy that is wasted at orgasm.

Also note that by 'sex', I am referring to all forms of sexual activity that results in physical orgasm.


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What you're searching for is what's searching.


Edited by Source (11/24/04 03:33 PM)


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Mastering The Sexual Drive [Re: Source]
    #3404017 - 11/24/04 03:52 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I know that you are talking about all activities :smile:

The reason why it is such an 'accomplished' desire to master for many, is as you said the sheer energy involved, but also due to the important social importance that it gets in our society. It is seen as so much more than what the actual action is, and while it can be this relative to the person, if the person is searching for understanding specifically, this can certainly block it.

It goes along with our whole 'laid out' plan of life. Synchronization on a personal level from birth in this society. We are felt to almost be forced into a certain order of conduct - varying with our increasing age and "maturity". School, sex, marriage, work, work, work, retire, golf, die. Got to have family gatherings, immediate family includes only two parents and their children, everyone needs a car, everyone needs a house and material possessions. Sex is the ultimate reward, and at first is almost seen as a special status, fading with "maturity" - when we are conditioned into a more rigid framework. blah blah blah... the same old.

Moving outside of this creates friction. It is hard, no doubt. But a lot of these pre-decided notions conflict with a search for truth and understanding, and therefore should be tossed on account of the individual. Even still, being a "virgin" (such a thing makes no sense - 'you' are either currently engaged insex or not, as you are not past instances of this body...) is considered "bad" almost. Something to be "ashamed of", for males in particular. Fuck that :cool:

Maybe sex is an ultimate desire to accomplish. Without it, we would not reproduce and we would not continue to live as a species, and therefore experience nothing (no suffering) - and just consensual void. Maybe our desire for sex along with other lesser desires keeps this pathetic wheel turning and acts to hinder awareness from outside the wheel. Who knows :smile:

nice thread though source :smile:


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Mastering The Sexual Drive [Re: Source]
    #3404565 - 11/24/04 05:39 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

But there is something about the desire for sex that seems to me to be very fundamental.

Perhaps because one of the main purposes to all Life (THE purpose, I think) is to reproduce. Thus the desire for sex stems from the innate desire to reproduce and continue the species.

Of course we, typical for humans, muddy the issue with our ideas of feelings...especially that of Love. There is no question that Love can be an integral part of sex, for humans, but it is not required for either sex or procreation. We have moved away from "sex = reproduction" to "sex = enjoyment" (not that it isn't enjoyable...I can think of few physical activites which even have the possibility of being more enjoyable than sex).


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You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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Invisiblespudamore
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Re: Mastering The Sexual Drive [Re: Source]
    #3404880 - 11/24/04 06:24 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

i totally love the concept of tantra because the idea of sexual energy is based in everyday life too. alot of giving and receiving, though some might do more on one than the other. forget who said what it stand for Synergy Energy eXchange. something along those lines.

Is it possible to live in a state where internally we are having a sexual tantric experience with the universe at all times.

yes i believe so that is what tantric practitioners strive for. next time when you are walking down the road . contemplate what an orgasm feels like and connect it to everything you are walking past.

meditation time...

if you want to smoke drugs with this meditation(i did)haven't used shrooms doing this meditation. you can helps with very deep relaxation might screw with your mind abit.

1. state intention or desire that you would like to achieve.
2. ask for guidence and protection
3. just state that you connect with god and goddess and mother earth.
4. turn off all the lights, have candles going start to smoke if you wish.
5. smoke half bowls feel the relaxing smoke fill up your lungs, feel it relaxing your body, visualise the relaxing smoke internally extending to all your sore or uncomfortable spots. exhale.
6. concetrate on the flame for a few mintues before you fire up again. and know that everytime you inhale that you are making a stronger connection with god/goddess and mother earth.
7. once you had just enough to relax you go lay down with some mellow music that have no lyrics or voices.
8. relax your body even more from the muscles all the way down to the bone.
9. visualize a white energy coming from god/goddess. down through the top of your head down to your feet into mother earth.
10. visualize energy coming from mother earth spewing out the top of your head. (for best results visualize the energy running along your spine and then expand the energy wider than your spine on every breath.)
11. go to your 1st chakra( perinium, coccyx, pc muscle) start to suck in energy from these three places and store it in the coccyx. see the energy expanding in your coccyx.
12. imagine and feel what it is like to have sex, then what it is like to have an orgasm.(just recreate the feeling of orgasm)
13. imagine and feel what it is to be like the opposite sex having orgasm. (freaking unreal experience)
14. imagine and feel what it is to be both at the same time experiencing orgasm. (even better)
15. start to draw that energy up into the higher chakras and expand it through your body and beyond into your etheric body. see the orgasmic energy burning away all karma, ties, pain(mental, emotional, past, physical)and male egotic tendencies. just let go of everything and just feel the orgasm.

with steps 12 and onwards you can use breath of fire and the mantras OO. AH. MM. OM.
on step 12 you can feel or visualize energy running up your genitals.
and then on step 13 do the same but the opposite sex. (create imaginare genitals)

it all might seem a bit much to remember but get a hang of it after awhile. also read some tantra/kundalini info on how to channel that energy properly.
can fuck with your mind/sexuality. shakti can be a bit of a bitch sometimes too.


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suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem


Edited by spudamore (11/24/04 06:27 PM)


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Mastering The Sexual Drive [Re: Source]
    #3405709 - 11/24/04 09:48 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

It seems to me that tantra is simply a way for people to enjoy sex without the guilt. I say if you want to get down and dirty, just go for it! No need for pious pretension or fig leaves.

Religion should not be used as a cover for one's guilty activities or as a tool. Religion should not be used at all. We should not use religion/spirituality, but rather be used by it! This sort of thing is reminiscent of the dirty, fornicating priest who convinces his flock that sex with him will bring them closer to God. And if you believe that I have some land in Florida I'd like to sell you..

Tantra is also a convenient way for ugly people to have sex. Just as politics is show business for ugly people, apparently religion can also be used to get some good booty from time to time. :doggystyle:


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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Offlineskystone
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Re: Mastering The Sexual Drive [Re: spudamore]
    #3405732 - 11/24/04 09:53 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I find that sexual hormons nail me to some lower states of consciousness, the destroy my concentration, I am not able to
enjoy the surroundings or be perfectly calm.
I feel no balance and harmony. My creative imagination skills are impaired.

In the periods where my sexual urges are weaker I feel calmness, serenity, sort of like non-emotional happiness (is that an oxymoron?)
In more sexual periods, I can get anoyed by things, I can get mad more easily, I can get more emotional and I act more like an avarage human being, which makes me more compatible with others.

Makes me thing, does that mean that sexual hormones are the true architects of human society as we know it?


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"..and suddenly it began to rain"


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OfflineMike_Ologist
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Re: Mastering The Sexual Drive [Re: skystone]
    #3405912 - 11/24/04 10:40 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Source, I am of a similar opinion. If nothing else, I am convinced that the treatment of sex in current society is, in a most literal sense, perverted. (At least partially) aside from that is the question of autoeroticism. I have often asked myself if it is not something I should be in complete control of. If nothing else, one can make the argument that, because orgasm releases opioids in the brain, it is a form of physical addiction. Moral values aside, it seems that mastering this drive is a worthwhile goal.

On the other hand, I am not entirely certain what benefits this would confer upon me. There is even the potential that prolonged abstinence will only increase my desires and thus inhibit normal functioning.

Literature on the awakening of the Kundalini suggests that preserving the "vital fluid" is essential in maintaining heightened awareness, but the references are rather vague. I would love to hear more on the subject.


Edited by Mike_Ologist (11/24/04 10:40 PM)


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OfflineAnthrax
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Re: Mastering The Sexual Drive [Re: Mike_Ologist]
    #3406008 - 11/24/04 11:07 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I this sums it all up :werd:


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Werd


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Invisiblespudamore
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Re: Mastering The Sexual Drive [Re: Mike_Ologist]
    #3406040 - 11/24/04 11:14 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

sorry directed to zorbman


It seems to me that tantra is simply a way for people to enjoy sex without the guilt.

what if you already enjoy sex without guilt??? it just enhances the experience. if you get enjoyment and if you can find a use to understand something why couldn't it be used as a tool? it is used to bring down alot of barriers especailly with sexuality.

Tantra is also a convenient way for ugly people to have sex.

i know i am not ugly i still use it, and the people that i have used tantra with are physically and internally beautiful too. and they have been more understanding and more open.
and no there is no dirty old preist. you must be thinking of cults.

you are just like the people that say drugs are bad without even experiencing them.


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suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem


Edited by spudamore (11/24/04 11:16 PM)


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Invisiblespudamore
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Re: Mastering The Sexual Drive [Re: Mike_Ologist]
    #3406058 - 11/24/04 11:19 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

here are some sites for you to look at if you like

http://sivasakti.com/
http://tantra.com/
http://tantrananda.com/


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suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem


Edited by spudamore (11/24/04 11:21 PM)


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Mastering The Sexual Drive [Re: spudamore]
    #3406287 - 11/25/04 12:18 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

"Tantra is also a convenient way for ugly people to have sex."

Well, us ugly people appreciate that. I only thought that all you beautiful people were capable of it. I might give it a try then.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Invisiblespudamore
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Re: Mastering The Sexual Drive [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3406314 - 11/25/04 12:22 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

that was zorbmans comment


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suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Mastering The Sexual Drive [Re: spudamore]
    #3406434 - 11/25/04 12:37 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I realized that very quickly...that has to be the most arrogant statement I have read in the last 27 minutes.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Mastering The Sexual Drive [Re: Source]
    #3406520 - 11/25/04 12:50 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

In Thus Spoke Zarathustra by Nietzsche he has a chapter about sex, mostly celibacy, and how celibacy and the refusal of sexual pleasures in some people will then make the beast of sex rear its head at every corner with them. They became arrogant because of their intentional celibacy, and in the end it will taint their personality and make them suspicious of human feelings and passion

Then there are those who have natural celibacy, and are just as happy one way or the other, the true celibates. Passion does not rear its head in every affair they do, their celibacy just exists and they are whole, whether they have sex eventually or not. These are the people for whom celibacy is made. The former is not.

I have tried being celibate, but I depised it so I stopped. Perhaps it works for some, but I think it would just make most humans who do not do it naturally miserable and should not be enforced on others. Rather than mastering the sex drive or being mastered by it, we should just unify with it, realize it is an intergral part of our personality and stop judging people by our sexuality (attractive nature to them) except for those who share or will share sex together


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Mastering The Sexual Drive [Re: spudamore]
    #3406661 - 11/25/04 01:45 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

what if you already enjoy sex without guilt??? it just enhances the experience.

If you enjoy sex without guilt I commend you. If during sex you happen to like wearing a cape and waving your wand around, that's fine too. But if you believe you're doing it to transmute energies or some such, I think that's a bunch of :poop:. While you have the right to believe it, I am not obliged to keep a straight face.

Self honesty is the foundation of a succesful spiritual life. I compare tantra to a nudist colony. Most of these people are having difficulty getting laid, and they feel letting it all hang out will increase their chances of getting some booty. But instead of being honest about it, they cover themselves with a fig leaf: We do it to get back to the Earth or some such baloney.

All I'm saying is know the line between fantasy and reality. If you want to play games before doing the nasty, fine. Just don't take it so seriously!


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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Invisiblespudamore
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Re: Mastering The Sexual Drive [Re: zorbman]
    #3406695 - 11/25/04 01:58 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

But if you believe you're doing it to transmute energies or some such, I think that's a bunch of .

so the people that have been sexually abused and practice tantra to overcome there fears and the abuse is that a bunch of b/s??

Self honesty is the foundation of a succesful spiritual life.

do "you" really have self-honesty??

I compare tantra to a nudist colony. Most of these people are having difficulty getting laid, and they feel letting it all hang out will increase their chances of getting some booty.

thats a pretty big generalization there. most of the people that i know that practice, practice it because they want to experience the endless waves of orgasmic pleasure not to just get or increase their chance to get booty.

If you want to play games before doing the nasty, fine. Just don't take it so seriously!

is it playing games?? do they take it so seriously??
have you ever experienced a tantric ritual?

there is very little seriousness about it..


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suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem


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