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Offlinedr0mni
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Psycho-sexual associations: The human body and the human sexual experiance...
    #4748609 - 10/03/05 11:17 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Today I was checking out a girls ass, and the thought popped into my head that she shits out of that beautiful thing. All of a sudden I had a feeling of "Oh, so that's why they say sex is dirty"

We all like to blame oppressive dogmatic belief systems for the demonification of sexual pleasure, but are we really so dumb as to think that these beliefs came solely out of the wish to supress the urges of the masses?

Look at your genitals. Go ahead look at them. More often than not you are moving excrement and bodily waste out of these things. They are quite literally a source of filth and pollution. Given the incredible ability for the human mind to make subconscious associations, it seems quite reasonable that the less frequent orgasm will be thought of as another one of these pollutions.

Yes, sex is beautiful and creates life, but the birth of a child is not immediately associated like excretion and orgasm. It can seem far removed from the act of sex itself.

Anyways. What I'm suggesting is that the nature of our bodily functions is what gives rise to the complex psycho-sexual associations of guilt and shame. We interpret the world through our own bodies (the "hand" of god. The "Mouth" of a cave. Etc).

Obviously this is nothing new. But I know most of us like to put down oppressive religious sexual ethics as the source of this shame/guilt, when in fact it is probably hardwired into our very being.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Psycho-sexual associations: The human body and the human sexual experiance... [Re: dr0mni]
    #4748674 - 10/03/05 11:46 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

:yinyang: Heaven exists next to a sewer. It's all God/Tao. Maybe there is a spiritual lesson for us in this mystery. :wink: :thumbup: :heart:

Good observation.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Psycho-sexual associations: The human body and the human sexual experiance... [Re: dr0mni]
    #4748688 - 10/03/05 11:53 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Anyways. What I'm suggesting is that the nature of our bodily functions is what gives rise to the complex psycho-sexual associations of guilt and shame.

I'm not sure I agree (entirely) with this. Urine is sterile as is semmen, so both are cleaner than a mouth. Why the avertion to those two?


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Invisibleeric_the_red
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Re: Psycho-sexual associations: The human body and the human sexual experiance... [Re: dr0mni]
    #4748701 - 10/03/05 11:58 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

dr0mni said:
But I know most of us like to put down oppressive religious sexual ethics as the source of this shame/guilt, when in fact it is probably hardwired into our very being.






shame? guilt?
please clarify.


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Anno cock? is that some kind of Greek liqueur? -Geo's All Knowing Sex Slave


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Psycho-sexual associations: The human body and the human sexual experiance... [Re: dr0mni]
    #4748704 - 10/03/05 11:59 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I think our associations of sex with guilt and shame are mostly cultural. There are several cultures where sex is revered. Now, it should be noted that most cultures do look down upon promiscuous sex. That is, they emphasize the importance of sex within a the context of marriage, or at least very close relationships. That goes for polygamous cultures as well. But it's mainly within the Christian tradition, and more specifically the Puritan tradition, that sex has become something to feel ashamed of.


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: Psycho-sexual associations: The human body and the human sexual experiance... [Re: Silversoul]
    #4748726 - 10/03/05 12:04 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

"I'm not sure I agree (entirely) with this. Urine is sterile as is semmen, so both are cleaner than a mouth. Why the avertion to those two?"

Of course, but would you swallow your own piss? It's sterile...

and feces can be a source of many diseases and parasites.

Besides, people are more familiar with the smell of rotting urine than they are with the microbiological make up of it.

This isn't about how things ARE, it's about how they are percieved and interpreted.


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: Psycho-sexual associations: The human body and the human sexual experiance... [Re: Silversoul]
    #4748741 - 10/03/05 12:11 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
I think our associations of sex with guilt and shame are mostly cultural. There are several cultures where sex is revered. Now, it should be noted that most cultures do look down upon promiscuous sex. That is, they emphasize the importance of sex within a the context of marriage, or at least very close relationships. That goes for polygamous cultures as well. But it's mainly within the Christian tradition, and more specifically the Puritan tradition, that sex has become something to feel ashamed of.




yes, cultural context does have a HUGE part in all of this. I'm not anthropologist, but I would bet good money that sex has a "dirty" aspect to it, univerally, acrossed all cultures. This may not even be a specifically expressed thing, but a subtle, subconscious thing.

oh, and don't forget the Muslims... they are probably worse than the christians.

The purity of sex within marriage could have a lot to do with the feeling that your partners filth is no different than your own filth, just as you are more comfortable eating off the plate of your parents than that of a strangers (I know this is a culture-specific example, but I think you get my point). Promiscuous sex could be seen as sharing in the filth of strangers...

I'm just throwing speculations out there, so I'm not really to defend everything I've said in this post.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Psycho-sexual associations: The human body and the human sexual experiance... [Re: dr0mni]
    #4748753 - 10/03/05 12:16 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Fertility cults are some of the oldest religions known to man. They worshipped sexuality. They prayed for sexual prowess and virility. I don't think such religions saw sex as dirty.


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Offlinefredyjenkins
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Re: Psycho-sexual associations: The human body and the human sexual experiance... [Re: Silversoul]
    #4748776 - 10/03/05 12:26 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I think it's both freudian and cultural :wink: but mostly cultural.. look in india! they have statue of naked woman, sex for them is really important ect.


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-English is not my native language. So im not retarded, i'm just not very engligh articulate. Please forgive me for my bad writing! :wink: Thank you! :laugh:


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: Psycho-sexual associations: The human body and the human sexual experiance... [Re: fredyjenkins]
    #4748932 - 10/03/05 01:20 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

nudity is not the same as sex. Keep in mind I'm talking specifically about intercourse and genitalia.

Good point about the fertility cults.

This could also be connected to the cultural attitudes toward excrement in general. A culture/mindset that is more accepting of bodily waste/functions as a natural part of being alive might be less likely to have a sexual-shame complex.

This could get really complicated.


Edited by dr0mni (10/03/05 01:22 PM)


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OfflineQuoiyaien
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Re: Psycho-sexual associations: The human body and the human sexual experiance... [Re: Silversoul]
    #4751580 - 10/03/05 11:02 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
Fertility cults are some of the oldest religions known to man.  They worshipped sexuality.  They prayed for sexual prowess and virility.  I don't think such religions saw sex as dirty.




Yeah, they must have been the only religions that knew sex feels good :rolleyes: 

Back to the cultural thing...  In one of the vedic (hindu) texts (dont remember which one), human urine is refered to many times as the "panacea" or "cure all."  Got a cold, no problem, consume nothing but urine (your own) for 3 days and you will be better.  Though no matter how healthful, I am sure not many of us would ever consider it.  Though is that due to cultural conditioning that if it comes out of us, it must be dirty?  I mean, I have never tasted urine, but I know I have absolutely no desire to try it.  Is that instinctual, or society?  OK gross and pointless... moving on... 

Regarding the associations, I bet they had no idea that sex created babies and just did it because it was fun.  I bet babies were just a fact of life, like taking a big living "shit" every 9 or 10 months. I bet all sex before we knew the process of fetal development was "promiscuous."  Men were constantly competing for women, and even the shape of the male penis is a perfect example of how man evolved to compete sexually.  Penis goes in, other sperm is pulled out.  Darwinism at its finest.  :laugh:  I wonder how they figured out sex creates babies?      Do other animals have sex for procreation, or is it simply good ol' instinctual fun?

:heart:Peace:heart:

:hippie:


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There are an infinite number of ways to interpret experience... The trick is not to fall for any of them


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Offlineleery11
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Re: Psycho-sexual associations: The human body and the human sexual experiance... [Re: Quoiyaien]
    #4751779 - 10/03/05 11:54 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Anyways. What I'm suggesting is that the nature of our bodily functions is what gives rise to the complex psycho-sexual associations of guilt and shame.

I'm not sure I agree (entirely) with this. Urine is sterile as is semmen, so both are cleaner than a mouth. Why the avertion to those two?



semen carries AIDS.

I don't entirely agree because when you were younger you generally didn't feel shame about your bodily processes, your waste.... etc. It's conditioning I think.

But yes, I get the same feelings lately, thinking about sex being dirty, the body being dirty ... and gross... and nasty. I'm not sure why.... just a layer of conditioning popping up? A defense mechanism to keep me from feeling like I should engage in relations?

Who knows.
Quote:

dr0mni said:
The purity of sex within marriage could have a lot to do with the feeling that your partners filth is no different than your own filth, just as you are more comfortable eating off the plate of your parents than that of a strangers (I know this is a culture-specific example, but I think you get my point). Promiscuous sex could be seen as sharing in the filth of strangers...



I totally agree here, and this supports some dreams I've been having lately... in addition to what little relationship (yes, ship) experience I've had. It's shared filth, so you just say fuck it and get over it.

anyway as an example of how filthy Americans think the male body is... LOOK AT MALE CIRCUMCISION.... if American Christians could stop sex, they would. They don't want you masturbating, they don't want you having natural oils... snip snip snip shut up baby, who cares if this is traumatizing you, you don't need anesthesia because you won't remember it, you're just a stupid baby... snip snip.... oops ... you'll have to be a girl now...... it's just barbaic as fuck subjecting an infant to that kind of extensive trauma and mutilation.....

fucking circumcision. Sorry, I just hate it very much. American men are violent in the bed for a reason, it's because they can't feel shit like they are supposed to.

So yes, I think its largely cultural, but I think its also instinct to stay moderately clean and that may play a case in some of our aversions and cultures to begin with. We're not entirely animals content with our own filth, but we're not entirely not-animals and are largely still bound by our instincts.


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I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


Edited by leery11 (10/03/05 11:57 PM)


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