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OfflineApplejack
journeyman

Registered: 01/20/01
Posts: 38
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
Casing TEK
    #333355 - 06/03/01 08:13 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

When casing is it best to crumble the cakes, leave them hole or does it matter?



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Offlineshizifty
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Registered: 11/28/00
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Re: Casing TEK [Re: Applejack]
    #333366 - 06/03/01 08:28 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

crumble. as whole cakes they wouldnt create a strong mycelial network like a crumbled casing, which is the whole point. some use a bit of both and break half their cakes in half (big chunks) and crumble the rest (small chunks) to fill the gaps.

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Offlinemaria420
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Re: Casing TEK [Re: shizifty]
    #333399 - 06/03/01 08:56 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

How can you crumble the cake if you are not supposed to touch the cake? Or is is ok to touch them when you birth the cake?

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InvisibleBrownPastures
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Registered: 03/16/01
Posts: 968
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Re: Casing TEK [Re: maria420]
    #333422 - 06/03/01 09:35 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

just case it whole..... it's gonna have to grow thru the casing to pin anyway.... why slow it down by breaking it up.... maybe if you want to increase surface area but tha's a whole nother story....

"like a Japanese Cowboy or a blind man on skates"Ween
"you must make sure that the lady's pure for the Funky Cold Medina"Tone Loc


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Offlinegratefulredhead
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Re: Casing TEK [Re: Applejack]
    #333579 - 06/04/01 01:01 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

clean up. wear gloves if you like. crumble, crumble. this will create a better network, and a more even distribution into the casing, but of course, not crumbling will work as well. do one of each. experiment a bit.

Edited by gratefulredhead on 06/04/01 01:02 AM.



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Invisiblepuscle
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Registered: 01/07/01
Posts: 4,539
Loc: NY
Re: Casing TEK [Re: shizifty]
    #333648 - 06/04/01 03:04 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Crumble them in a ziplock.



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Offlinejonnyshaggs420
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Re: Casing TEK [Re: Applejack]
    #333662 - 06/04/01 03:24 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Some people slice the cake into 3/4in thick slices and layer them in their container and crumble a little of it to fill in the gaps.  This will help to increase surface area, but won't cause as much stress to the mycelium and it will recover quicker.

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OfflineApplejack
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Registered: 01/20/01
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Re: Casing TEK [Re: jonnyshaggs420]
    #334333 - 06/04/01 08:28 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks for all the input. I will try crumbling.
:)



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Offlineshizifty
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Re: Casing TEK [Re: Applejack]
    #335406 - 06/05/01 07:34 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

sorry to bump but just so the concept is understood, creating a larger surface area is the key to big cake yields. you can have a cake covered in verm but then its still only a cake surrounded by moisture, and its mycelial network is still limited. by breaking it up it all grows together and thus makes it stronger.
example: take 4 cakes and crumble them into a tall narrow pan (loaf, 10x4x4) and a shallow wide pan (18x10x1). the narrow pan will be taller and have the same number of cakes but it wont grow as many as the wider pan. using shallow & wide aluminum pans w/4 cakes each led to biggest flushes averaging 4.5oz wet each flush for 4 flushes.
try to refrain from touching the cake directly. use a ziploc, i use latex gloves and rub isopropyl over them before i start. gloves are actually pretty cheap, 80 pairs being about 10 bucks CDN and remember youre not always using a pair.

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InvisibleBrownPastures
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Registered: 03/16/01
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Re: Casing TEK [Re: shizifty]
    #335450 - 06/05/01 08:19 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Ok here goes shizifty .. this is for you .....

True crumbling them does create a greater surface area...A WHOLE cased cake may have less "exposed" surface area, but that in no way makes it have a "limited" mycelial structure. I hate to be rude but this makes me think that your experience is casing is "limited" rather than the mycelium that we are speaking of. But dont take that offensively just means you need alittle more practice or reading or whatever.

But back to where we were. The mycelium is certainly not "limited". As you may already know the things we put in cakes is mushroom Fertilizer. Actualy the only important mycelium in casing are the ones that actualy grow into the casing causing "knotting". This is basicly why casing works so well. peace

"like a Japanese Cowboy or a blind man on skates"Ween
"you must make sure that the lady's pure for the Funky Cold Medina"Tone Loc


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Offlineshizifty
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Re: Casing TEK [Re: BrownPastures]
    #335469 - 06/05/01 08:44 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

its funny so no worries. however i still object and heres why. how much mycelium do you have with a cake in verm, a couple of inches squared? how much do you have with a crumbled casing? a lot more. therefore i consider it limited in comparison. now i speak from direct experience here, does 4 cakes covered in verm yield the same as 4 cakes crumbled? in my experience it doesnt, thats why i disagree. what i believe to be the most important factor is the surface area the network is allowed, this will give me more pins and those i can nurse to heavy harvests. thats why i gave up on small 1 and 2 cake casings.

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mathmatical approach to all things grammatical shouts out to kids who still like to get radical


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OfflineBullfrog
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Re: Casing TEK [Re: Applejack]
    #335526 - 06/05/01 09:57 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Apple,
Do this. Slice the cakes into 3 equal parts-which would be 1 1/2-2 inches or so, lay them in your container, with an inch of saturated verm on the bottom(45cc of sterilized water for each 1/2 cup of verm) and crumble
a cake to fill in the gaps. A thick layer of mycellium is what works best. This will provide you with a strong casing, one that will recover quickly and yield great flushes.
BTW-go with the verm only casing. My 1st 50-50 did O.K., but I quickly learned that vermiculite only casings were and ARE,
far less apt to contaminate.

Good luck and good growing! :)
Bullfrog



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Offlineshroomeatindude
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Registered: 05/05/01
Posts: 79
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
Re: Casing TEK [Re: BrownPastures]
    #336430 - 06/06/01 08:12 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

BrownPastures.. you sound very knowledgeable with casing. What casing tek do you recommend, and do you recommend sterilise, pasteurise, microwave sterilise, or none?

-Shr00meatind00d


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Offlineshizifty
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Registered: 11/28/00
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Re: Casing TEK [Re: shroomeatindude]
    #336460 - 06/06/01 08:58 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

in case of no reply id recommend this

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InvisibleBrownPastures
old hand

Registered: 03/16/01
Posts: 968
Loc: here
Re: Casing TEK [Re: shizifty]
    #336500 - 06/06/01 09:48 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

please shizifty i dont want to argue with you honey.... here's what you dont understand....

A whole cake cased (now i'm talking about whole grain cakes not PF cakes) and not broken up will produce the same ammount of (weight)fruit as a broken up cake. True, a broken up cake can give more even flushes so on and so forth. But what you are suggesting is that a WHOLE cake cased will not produce as much as a CRUMBLED up cake. That just defies the laws of nature...and thanks for the link i'm sure the newbies will appreciate it peace

"like a Japanese Cowboy or a blind man on skates"-Ween
Drool Donkey Island

Edited by BrownPastures on 06/06/01 09:49 PM.



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OfflineRaist14
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Registered: 02/27/01
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Re: Casing TEK [Re: BrownPastures]
    #336593 - 06/06/01 11:37 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)


Let me just say Brownpastures that you should try growing mushrooms from a full cake and take an identical cake in the same setting and crumble it and see the difference. You might be surprised considering your above statement.



The above statement is an act of fiction from the dreamworld.


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OfflineApplejack
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Registered: 01/20/01
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Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
Re: Casing TEK [Re: Raist14]
    #336604 - 06/07/01 12:00 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Can't we all just get along!

:)



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OfflineBoland Gomba
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Registered: 07/06/00
Posts: 20
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
Re: Casing TEK [Re: Applejack]
    #336627 - 06/07/01 12:35 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

In my friend's limited experience- 4 attempts - 3 EQ's , 1 Thai K.S. he has found that leaving the cakes whole (Brf/verm- no grain cakes yet) has produced just as well if not better as crumbling them. His last attempt being his best so far he found that placing them over a dry layer of perlite and casing it with coconut fiber/oyster shell worked extremely well - 4 excellent flushes with no sign of contams anywhere. He has concluded that in the future all his casings will be with coir as it seemed to hold up better than his attempts with peat/vermiculite(all contaminated after 2nd flush). Either way will produce results with cleanliness still being the biggest concern.



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InvisibleBrownPastures
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Posts: 968
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Re: Casing TEK [Re: Raist14]
    #336656 - 06/07/01 01:37 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Who are you again???? :laugh:

"like a Japanese Cowboy or a blind man on skates"-Ween
Drool Donkey Island


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Casing TEK [Re: BrownPastures]
    #336829 - 06/07/01 08:31 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

the factor being ignored is the increase in mycellial mass gained by allowing a crumble/ground cake to colonize a casing/bulk substrate. even though no food is added, the increased mass does support larger flushes, and more of them.
btw, grinding cakes into a powder works even better than crumbling.

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