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OfflineApplejack
journeyman

Registered: 01/19/01
Posts: 38
Last seen: 19 years, 27 days
Casing TEK
    #333355 - 06/03/01 07:13 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

When casing is it best to crumble the cakes, leave them hole or does it matter?



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Offlineshizifty
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Registered: 11/27/00
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Re: Casing TEK [Re: Applejack]
    #333366 - 06/03/01 07:28 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

crumble. as whole cakes they wouldnt create a strong mycelial network like a crumbled casing, which is the whole point. some use a bit of both and break half their cakes in half (big chunks) and crumble the rest (small chunks) to fill the gaps.

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Offlinemaria420
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Re: Casing TEK [Re: shizifty]
    #333399 - 06/03/01 07:56 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

How can you crumble the cake if you are not supposed to touch the cake? Or is is ok to touch them when you birth the cake?

Laugh and the world laughs with you, weep and you weep alone.

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InvisibleBrownPastures
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Registered: 03/16/01
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Re: Casing TEK [Re: maria420]
    #333422 - 06/03/01 08:35 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

just case it whole..... it's gonna have to grow thru the casing to pin anyway.... why slow it down by breaking it up.... maybe if you want to increase surface area but tha's a whole nother story....

"like a Japanese Cowboy or a blind man on skates"Ween
"you must make sure that the lady's pure for the Funky Cold Medina"Tone Loc


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Offlinegratefulredhead
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Re: Casing TEK [Re: Applejack]
    #333579 - 06/04/01 12:01 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

clean up. wear gloves if you like. crumble, crumble. this will create a better network, and a more even distribution into the casing, but of course, not crumbling will work as well. do one of each. experiment a bit.

Edited by gratefulredhead on 06/04/01 01:02 AM.



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Invisiblepuscle
genius of love
Registered: 01/06/01
Posts: 4,539
Loc: NY
Re: Casing TEK [Re: shizifty]
    #333648 - 06/04/01 02:04 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Crumble them in a ziplock.



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Offlinejonnyshaggs420
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Re: Casing TEK [Re: Applejack]
    #333662 - 06/04/01 02:24 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Some people slice the cake into 3/4in thick slices and layer them in their container and crumble a little of it to fill in the gaps.  This will help to increase surface area, but won't cause as much stress to the mycelium and it will recover quicker.

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OfflineApplejack
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Registered: 01/19/01
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Re: Casing TEK [Re: jonnyshaggs420]
    #334333 - 06/04/01 07:28 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks for all the input. I will try crumbling.
:)



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Offlineshizifty
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Re: Casing TEK [Re: Applejack]
    #335406 - 06/05/01 06:34 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

sorry to bump but just so the concept is understood, creating a larger surface area is the key to big cake yields. you can have a cake covered in verm but then its still only a cake surrounded by moisture, and its mycelial network is still limited. by breaking it up it all grows together and thus makes it stronger.
example: take 4 cakes and crumble them into a tall narrow pan (loaf, 10x4x4) and a shallow wide pan (18x10x1). the narrow pan will be taller and have the same number of cakes but it wont grow as many as the wider pan. using shallow & wide aluminum pans w/4 cakes each led to biggest flushes averaging 4.5oz wet each flush for 4 flushes.
try to refrain from touching the cake directly. use a ziploc, i use latex gloves and rub isopropyl over them before i start. gloves are actually pretty cheap, 80 pairs being about 10 bucks CDN and remember youre not always using a pair.

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InvisibleBrownPastures
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Registered: 03/16/01
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Re: Casing TEK [Re: shizifty]
    #335450 - 06/05/01 07:19 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Ok here goes shizifty .. this is for you .....

True crumbling them does create a greater surface area...A WHOLE cased cake may have less "exposed" surface area, but that in no way makes it have a "limited" mycelial structure. I hate to be rude but this makes me think that your experience is casing is "limited" rather than the mycelium that we are speaking of. But dont take that offensively just means you need alittle more practice or reading or whatever.

But back to where we were. The mycelium is certainly not "limited". As you may already know the things we put in cakes is mushroom Fertilizer. Actualy the only important mycelium in casing are the ones that actualy grow into the casing causing "knotting". This is basicly why casing works so well. peace

"like a Japanese Cowboy or a blind man on skates"Ween
"you must make sure that the lady's pure for the Funky Cold Medina"Tone Loc


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Offlineshizifty
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Re: Casing TEK [Re: BrownPastures]
    #335469 - 06/05/01 07:44 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

its funny so no worries. however i still object and heres why. how much mycelium do you have with a cake in verm, a couple of inches squared? how much do you have with a crumbled casing? a lot more. therefore i consider it limited in comparison. now i speak from direct experience here, does 4 cakes covered in verm yield the same as 4 cakes crumbled? in my experience it doesnt, thats why i disagree. what i believe to be the most important factor is the surface area the network is allowed, this will give me more pins and those i can nurse to heavy harvests. thats why i gave up on small 1 and 2 cake casings.

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mathmatical approach to all things grammatical shouts out to kids who still like to get radical


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OfflineBullfrog
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Re: Casing TEK [Re: Applejack]
    #335526 - 06/05/01 08:57 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Apple,
Do this. Slice the cakes into 3 equal parts-which would be 1 1/2-2 inches or so, lay them in your container, with an inch of saturated verm on the bottom(45cc of sterilized water for each 1/2 cup of verm) and crumble
a cake to fill in the gaps. A thick layer of mycellium is what works best. This will provide you with a strong casing, one that will recover quickly and yield great flushes.
BTW-go with the verm only casing. My 1st 50-50 did O.K., but I quickly learned that vermiculite only casings were and ARE,
far less apt to contaminate.

Good luck and good growing! :)
Bullfrog



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Offlineshroomeatindude
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Registered: 05/05/01
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Re: Casing TEK [Re: BrownPastures]
    #336430 - 06/06/01 07:12 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

BrownPastures.. you sound very knowledgeable with casing. What casing tek do you recommend, and do you recommend sterilise, pasteurise, microwave sterilise, or none?

-Shr00meatind00d


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Offlineshizifty
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Re: Casing TEK [Re: shroomeatindude]
    #336460 - 06/06/01 07:58 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

in case of no reply id recommend this

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InvisibleBrownPastures
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Re: Casing TEK [Re: shizifty]
    #336500 - 06/06/01 08:48 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

please shizifty i dont want to argue with you honey.... here's what you dont understand....

A whole cake cased (now i'm talking about whole grain cakes not PF cakes) and not broken up will produce the same ammount of (weight)fruit as a broken up cake. True, a broken up cake can give more even flushes so on and so forth. But what you are suggesting is that a WHOLE cake cased will not produce as much as a CRUMBLED up cake. That just defies the laws of nature...and thanks for the link i'm sure the newbies will appreciate it peace

"like a Japanese Cowboy or a blind man on skates"-Ween
Drool Donkey Island

Edited by BrownPastures on 06/06/01 09:49 PM.



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OfflineRaist14
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Re: Casing TEK [Re: BrownPastures]
    #336593 - 06/06/01 10:37 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)


Let me just say Brownpastures that you should try growing mushrooms from a full cake and take an identical cake in the same setting and crumble it and see the difference. You might be surprised considering your above statement.



The above statement is an act of fiction from the dreamworld.


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OfflineApplejack
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Registered: 01/19/01
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Re: Casing TEK [Re: Raist14]
    #336604 - 06/06/01 11:00 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Can't we all just get along!

:)



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OfflineBoland Gomba
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Re: Casing TEK [Re: Applejack]
    #336627 - 06/06/01 11:35 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

In my friend's limited experience- 4 attempts - 3 EQ's , 1 Thai K.S. he has found that leaving the cakes whole (Brf/verm- no grain cakes yet) has produced just as well if not better as crumbling them. His last attempt being his best so far he found that placing them over a dry layer of perlite and casing it with coconut fiber/oyster shell worked extremely well - 4 excellent flushes with no sign of contams anywhere. He has concluded that in the future all his casings will be with coir as it seemed to hold up better than his attempts with peat/vermiculite(all contaminated after 2nd flush). Either way will produce results with cleanliness still being the biggest concern.



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InvisibleBrownPastures
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Re: Casing TEK [Re: Raist14]
    #336656 - 06/07/01 12:37 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Who are you again???? :laugh:

"like a Japanese Cowboy or a blind man on skates"-Ween
Drool Donkey Island


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Casing TEK [Re: BrownPastures]
    #336829 - 06/07/01 07:31 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

the factor being ignored is the increase in mycellial mass gained by allowing a crumble/ground cake to colonize a casing/bulk substrate. even though no food is added, the increased mass does support larger flushes, and more of them.
btw, grinding cakes into a powder works even better than crumbling.

http://mycotopia.yage.net


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Casing TEK [Re: Hippie3]
    #336837 - 06/07/01 07:41 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

You did grind the cakes? And it worked? Hmm..

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OfflinegeokillsA
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Re: Casing TEK [Re: Bullfrog]
    #337173 - 06/07/01 05:34 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Bullfrog - I am aware that verm is very less likely to contaminate then a 50/50 mix - but i was wondering if doing pottingsoil/verm would provide more nutrients for the shrooms which may cause them to fruit larger/better/etc... any basis to my hypothesis?  :smile:<br><br>        ?        ?  ? -????? O ?????-? ?  ?        ?
<br>      Weed Legalization Freedom Fighter
<br>        ?        ?  ? -????? O ?????-? ?  ?        ?


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Offlineshizifty
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Re: Casing TEK [Re: BrownPastures]
    #337220 - 06/07/01 06:23 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

ack you aggravate me BP! may all your brown pastures turn greeeeeen!
In reply to:

(now i'm talking about whole grain cakes not PF cakes)


applejack do you have a whole grain cake there or a brf cake? feh limited...


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its him from the shroomery male model see him next on the microphone or freestylin on the bmx


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Offlineauto59009
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Re: Casing TEK [Re: shizifty]
    #337445 - 06/07/01 11:27 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

i agree man
i don't like to start shit with anyone, and i am not going to, but i don't like brownnose quoting part of my message as an example of stupidity or whatever the fuck he said

shizifty is right! cake for cake, larger surface area will give a bigger overall yield. it is simple fucking common sense!!! more shrooms will grow from a ig flat pan than a fucking long cylindrical tube of the same volume now won't they?

i accept your views bn but just lay off paying out other ppl. if u weren't so fucking defensive urself (that which u accuse others of) i would probably even classify ur info as "useful"
so chill fuckstick...

I am a compulsive liar:wink:
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http://www.lilshopofspores.com
http://www.shaman-australis.com/shroom


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InvisibleBrownPastures
old hand

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Posts: 968
Loc: here
Re: Casing TEK [Re: auto59009]
    #337601 - 06/08/01 05:10 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

There is nothing to "start" or "finish" . I think your aggrivation comes from the fact that i'm right and you are only partialy right. That's okay because i'm always happy to steer people onto the right path.

"

                  shizifty is right! cake for cake, larger surface area will give a bigger overall yield. it is simple
                  fucking common sense!!! more shrooms will grow from a ig flat pan than a fucking long cylindrical
                  tube of the same volume now won't they? "


hello??? it's really sad that "your common sense" has nothing to do with comon sense at all. I find it very hard to believe, and infact i KNOW, that A CAKE, will produce OVER TIME, the same ammount of fruit WEIGHT as the same cake CASED. TRUE, casing provide "bigger" flushes with more NUMBERS of fruits.Also, the casing FRUITS ALL AT ONCE (if done correctly). BUT, the most important point is that,people who dont really know how to grow cakes yet try casing and tell every body that it YEILDS more. When in REALITY casings are just EASIER to take care of , and easier to bring to "maximum" fruiting proportions. While cakes on the other hand are a little trickier. Take it from someone who knows people who used to grow ONLY PF style cakes since the early 80's.

  And if you poor fools are still confused here's the laymans version:

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. You can't make energy out of thin air, you can't be superman just by wearing the friggin underwear! If one has a certain ammount of substrate , why would you expect to get more fruit just by crumbling it and surrounding it in a NON-NUTRITIOUS supstrate??? does vermiculite have some magical properties i don't know about yet??? i dont think so.... basicly, you make no sense . Oh and pardon me for sticking up for the truth, oh wait you think it's being defensive. I guess you never bothered LOOKING that one up either. Or as in the case of casing-your probably not experienced in using the word:).Don't get it twisted i'm not trying to fight or "play anyone out" . The reason you got "played out" is cause you were "playing yourself" i just helped you along. I truly feel sorry for you if you keep a grudge because i pointed out your mistakes. If some one has some TRUTHFUL and FACTUAL problems with my posts, i think i would get reply's about my false information all the time- from people who actualy know what their talking about. 

peace

oh and my Brown Pastures only turn Green during the summer when i'm dealing with the old wife mary....

p.s. if you want me to "leave you alone" -  stop posting bullshit

"like a Japanese Cowboy or a blind man on skates"-Ween
Drool Donkey Island

Edited by BrownPastures on 06/08/01 06:29 AM.



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Offlineauto59009
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Re: Casing TEK [Re: BrownPastures]
    #337605 - 06/08/01 05:24 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

there is plenty to start brownie :smile: like this petty arguement u started right here for example... i have no aggravation, just like to yank your chain.

yes, you are correct and simultaneously a fuckwit. any idiot who has gone thru half of high school will know about the law of conservation of energy. so lets look at this from a different angle. i don't know about you, but i certainly have no commercial setup. as a result of a simple home setup i am sure many ppl get casing contamination, judging from the fact that there a many threads dedicated to this plus a whole new forum! so one enemy here is time (indirectly mr fucking technical :smile:. lots of ppl involved in this hobby do not want to wait months for a cylinder of substrate to fruit til it is spent... and many ppl case with 50/50, cockspank, which does contain nutrients (useful to both carpophores AND contamination).

and you may be pointing out the truth, so thank you. but i hold a grudge coz you acted like a lame fucker about it. remember quoting my post as an example of the sort of ppl who you disliked...



I am a compulsive liar:wink:
http://go.to/FreeSporeRing
http://www.lilshopofspores.com
http://www.shaman-australis.com/shroom


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InvisibleBrownPastures
old hand

Registered: 03/16/01
Posts: 968
Loc: here
Re: Casing TEK [Re: auto59009]
    #337606 - 06/08/01 05:32 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

how could i be a half-wit when you just agreed with me ??? looks like you need to go back to highschool... the only thing petty around here is your understanding of the mushroom .... i dont remember what post yoru talking about me saying this is exactly the type of people i hate .... this was the only one i could find... andif you ARE talking about this quote... i would say i'm right again and your just confused. here's the post if you want to take a look hot-shot....

----------------------------------
Poster: auto59009
Subject: Re: Enhancing a casing?

i am experimentally certain that fruit mass is highly dependent on surface area more than volume...

...and thus concludes my dream. interpretations anyone?"


so basicly your saying is that you'll have more massive fruits in a 12x4" casing with a 1 inch
colonized substrate than 3 inch colonized substrate in the same size pan.... looks like you need to
go back to the lab and do some more experiments... this is a great example of what i'm talking
about people...

"like a Japanese Cowboy or a blind man on skates"-Ween
Drool Donkey Island
------------------------------------------

keep playing yourself out!! please ... this if so much fun! and EASY to ....

"like a Japanese Cowboy or a blind man on skates"-Ween
Drool Donkey Island

Edited by BrownPastures on 06/08/01 06:45 AM.



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Offlineauto59009
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Re: Casing TEK [Re: BrownPastures]
    #337608 - 06/08/01 05:46 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

you can be a half wit and be correct once every now and again. i am judging you purely on your attitude towards knowledge, and from that you seem like a fuckwit. which is different to a half-wit anyway.. wtf u talking about?!

i don't intend to go back to highschool. i am perpetually learning about the mushroom. i offer my opinion that is all. most ppl seem to manage by either accepting or ignoring it, but u seem to have some compulsive need to take it fucking head on! haha LOL stubborn brownshitstain. i suppose i must concede defeat aout my admittedly incomplete knowledge when i am dealing with a supreme god like entity such as yourself, who is so complete in his understanding of the universe that to contradict him would draw uparallelled wrath!!! haha LOL get off your high horse man, just chill, don't pay out other ppl. that is strictly different to correcting (looks like u don't understand the mushrooms my friend)

anyway, i am bored with you. you bore me. so i will not respond to your post again. if you feel the need to drag flame the fuck out of my invented shroomery nick which has no ego of its own then feel free to. i can't be fucked wasting time with urs.

hope when u give up we can chat some time :smile:
later

I am a compulsive liar:wink:
http://go.to/FreeSporeRing
http://www.lilshopofspores.com
http://www.shaman-australis.com/shroom


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Offlineauto59009
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Re: Casing TEK [Re: auto59009]
    #337610 - 06/08/01 05:52 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

oh just for the record... you didn't include the post that preceded that one u just pasted. remember the one where you talk about how newbies do this and that (had negative connotations.. im not gonna bother looking for it, u can waste time doin that...) generally that certain "newbie" posts piss you off, then my post as an example of what you were talking about... the ppl u were talking about... seems like u could have just corrected whatever you disagreed with rather than make an example of me?

I am a compulsive liar:wink:
http://go.to/FreeSporeRing
http://www.lilshopofspores.com
http://www.shaman-australis.com/shroom


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InvisibleBrownPastures
old hand

Registered: 03/16/01
Posts: 968
Loc: here
Re: Casing TEK [Re: auto59009]
    #337611 - 06/08/01 05:57 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

I'm glad you finaly came to your senses. You can ask me anything any time ...i'll be glad to answer your questions cause i like to help people. Yes, it's true :smile: i am all knowing! But there are still things that i dont know,and things i will never know. The only reason this went so far is because your so hard headed. So, ok, maybe i was having a bad day and i vented on your little post, SUE ME. But dont tell me i'm WRONG.. Because i'll be the first one to admit i'm wrong if it is true that i am. Oh... and mushrooms - just like clothes- DO NOT make the man. and i like those witty little names you call me their so funny , i think i might use one in my quote but i haven't decided wich one yet. oh about that post with the "newbie" thing ... i'm sorry you felt singled out.... it was directed toward all people who post questions that make me wonder if they even bothered to read the PF tek more than 1ce... i'm sorry if i value my knowledge. I haven't seen any replys from moderators or people who actualy post informative advice concurring with the point of view i made in that post. Which makes me think 2 things, they either dont want to agree with me because they feel that their point of view should be hidden away or they feel i have said exactly what they feel and they dont have the need to add anything more...oh ... i'm done...

"like a Japanese Cowboy or a blind man on skates"-Ween
Drool Donkey Island

Edited by BrownPastures on 06/08/01 07:09 AM.



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Offlineauto59009
enthusiast
Registered: 05/21/01
Posts: 376
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 18 years, 11 months
Re: Casing TEK [Re: BrownPastures]
    #337615 - 06/08/01 06:13 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

i am glad u like those words, if u want some more i have em, just let us know.:)

...slutguts hehe :smile:

see ya round...

I am a compulsive liar:wink:
http://go.to/FreeSporeRing
http://www.lilshopofspores.com
http://www.shaman-australis.com/shroom

Edited by auto59009 on 06/08/01 07:15 AM.



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InvisibleBrownPastures
old hand

Registered: 03/16/01
Posts: 968
Loc: here
Re: Casing TEK [Re: auto59009]
    #337620 - 06/08/01 06:38 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Perfect! thanks :wink:

"slutguts" - auto59009
Drool Donkey Island


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OfflineNagual
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Registered: 06/07/01
Posts: 316
Loc: nyc, USA
Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
Re: Casing TEK [Re: BrownPastures]
    #337664 - 06/08/01 08:30 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Sounds like maybe someone is sensitive about a small wee-wee? Hence the unnecessarily offensive super-venomosity? If wisdom isn't making you kinder chances are it's just an over-inflated ego-trip, scared and callous.

"A psychedelic person is not willing to be a good citizen, or a good anything that is defined by someone else; I mean a shaman is a true anarchist."o0OTerrence McKennaO0o


--------------------
.....___^___
....(_______)
........|...|Free
...__ /.../..Spore
...|___ / .....Ring


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OfflineRaist14
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Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 18
Last seen: 19 years, 2 months
Re: Casing TEK [Re: BrownPastures]
    #337666 - 06/08/01 08:30 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)


I would just say that in a controlled experiment crumbling the cakes should produce more on average. I believe that would hold up in most cases. I wouldn't want to argue about it. I'm just saying try it and find out.

The above statement is an act of fiction from the dreamworld.


--------------------
The above statement is an act of fiction from the dreamworld.


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OfflineRaist14
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Posts: 18
Last seen: 19 years, 2 months
Re: Casing TEK [Re: BrownPastures]
    #337667 - 06/08/01 08:35 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)


I am just someone that has been lurking around here for years. A faithful ally to Teotanactl and avid reader of stamets and Mckenna. If you were asking me who I am then that's a decent answer.



The above statement is an act of fiction from the dreamworld.


--------------------
The above statement is an act of fiction from the dreamworld.


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OfflineRaist14
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Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 18
Last seen: 19 years, 2 months
Re: Casing TEK [Re: Raist14]
    #337674 - 06/08/01 08:46 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

There sure is a lot of animosity here for people who should be journeying with the mushroom. I would think that would promote peace instead of all this arguing all the time. I have no idea how someone could say growing straight from cakes produces the same amount as a proper casing. I also don't know how someone could say it's easier to case then grow from a cake. Perhaps I am living in another dimension where the rules are different.

The above statement is an act of fiction from the dreamworld.


--------------------
The above statement is an act of fiction from the dreamworld.


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OfflineNagual
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Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
Re: Casing TEK [Re: Raist14]
    #337781 - 06/08/01 12:25 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

This website is fantastic. And riiight!? It's easy to expect an urban shaman to be more than less compassionately conscious, but at the same time you CAN'T judge, compare, or label at risk of losing the ability to see and accept the me, the you, the him and the her, the them and the us as it truly is.
It seems like casing is closer to the way mushrooms grow in nature than cakes; I guess i'll find out for myself soon enough which techniqes work out best. And Raist iv'e never seen the elusive Universal Rulebook, expectations make us complacent and unforgiving.There's always room for fresh perspectives!

"A psychedelic person is not willing to be a good citizen, or a good anything that is defined by someone else; I mean a shaman is a true anarchist."o0OTerrence McKennaO0o


--------------------
.....___^___
....(_______)
........|...|Free
...__ /.../..Spore
...|___ / .....Ring


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