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Re: To all who supported Kerry and believe in democracy... [Re: Innvertigo]
    #3315603 -

Quote:
People died trying to fight those that didn't want us to vote, the least we could do is check a friggin box.




Oh please! So Im am presented with choices which are completely unsatisfactory to me by a system which is largely unsatisfactory to me and Im supposed to participate anyway. Yeah right...whatever.


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Always Smi2le

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Re: To all who supported Kerry and believe in democracy... [Re: GazzBut]
    #3315728 -

I don't know why you keep saying "me" in relation to American politics and the electoral process. You can't vote. None the less, you can write in a nomination for whomever you choose and you donate your money to whomever you see fit to.

If you don't like the system, why vote? But why complain about how it turns out?


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Candied Buds in Grand Marnier!
Psilocybin Extraction utilizing a/b that yields pure crystals!

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Re: To all who supported Kerry and believe in democracy... [Re: retread]
    #3318288 -

Im speaking in relation to politics in general. It works in a fairly similar manner in the entire western world.


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Always Smi2le

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Re: To all who supported Kerry and believe in democracy... [Re: GazzBut]
    #3318391 -

we have the freedom to vote or not. we have the freedom to bitch or not. we also have the right to voice our opinions, vote or no vote. i do agree with you to a point invertigo, but once every 4 years to voice our point about 1 tiny matter is a pretty shitty way of doing things. the best way to describe "western" democracies would be partial democracies. we, the people, dont get to vote in many of the key people (could be a good or bad thing), or on some of the key laws/regulations etc to be passed. personally i think a vote on legislature or at least some would be a BIG step forward instead of letting a hand full of senators do it.

im for the voice of millions not for the voice of hundreds, personally.


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The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.

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Re: To all who supported Kerry and believe in democracy... [Re: kadakuda]
    #3318838 -

This election will affect the whole world. I wish the whole world could have voted.

I was however, very impressed with the voting turnout in america. It showed that many people were thinking about it, and rightly so. The thing is, now I realise how many conservative religous fanatics live in the US which is more scary than only 2 people turning up to vote IMO.

These people need to wake up. I cannot believe such an advanced country can fall for such utter bullshit. Damm scary.

I watched some stuff about the Ohio vote, the majority of Kerry's votes came from the city. The majority of Bush, the country, farms ranches whatever. One can quite feasably assume that the city folks will be more tollerant in such matters as racism and more aware in global matters, in general. The country people..... well.... they like their guns, don't like strangers and like a good ol american cowboy president cause he's more on billy-joe-bob's intellect level.


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It's not what, it's why.....

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Re: To all who supported Kerry and believe in democracy... [Re: Biohazard81]
    #3318867 -

Thats some great stereotyping there. I wonder why the dems lost?

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Re: To all who supported Kerry and believe in democracy... [Re: Stein]
    #3318984 -

It certainly is. But i can't see any other reason for so many people voting for bush.


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It's not what, it's why.....

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Re: To all who supported Kerry and believe in democracy... [Re: kadakuda]
    #3319025 -

Quote:
we have the freedom to vote or not. we have the freedom to bitch or not.



exactly right, that's not in dispute. But you have to ask yourself one thing. If you're bitching about, let's say, proposal 1 but you made no effort to affect the outcome of that proposal. Do you honestly think you have a leg to stand on when complaining about it? I think it would be good practice to mention that you didn't vote when complaining about something political. That would make for an interesting debate.

Quote:
but once every 4 years to voice our point about 1 tiny matter is a pretty shitty way of doing things



You mean to tell me that you don't vote in local contests and congressional candidates and school boards? These are every two years (approx). And to say that the presidential election is just 1 tiny matter is distressing.

Quote:
the best way to describe "western" democracies would be partial democracies.



we aren't a democracy anyways, we're a Republic.

Quote:
we, the people, dont get to vote in many of the key people (could be a good or bad thing), or on some of the key laws/regulations etc to be passed.



We elect our representatives and hold them accountable for the appointments they make. This is how a Republic works.

Quote:
im for the voice of millions not for the voice of hundreds, personally.



I don't get the analogy


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: To all who supported Kerry and believe in democracy... [Re: Biohazard81]
    #3319034 -

Biohazard81 said:
It certainly is. But i can't see any other reason for so many people voting for bush.


Maybe it's because you're blind, I don't know...:shrug:

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Re: To all who supported Kerry and believe in democracy... [Re: Stein]
    #3319055 -

Ha ha, no i'm not blind. I just have enough of a brain not to be fooled by that greedy cowboy.


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It's not what, it's why.....

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Re: To all who supported Kerry and believe in democracy... [Re: Stein]
    #3319130 -

Quote:
Quote:
Biohazard81 said:
It certainly is. But i can't see any other reason for so many people voting for bush.



Maybe it's because you're blind, I don't know...



Or perhaps you are blinded by money, greed, and religion.


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ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

There is such emotion in the distortion.

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Re: To all who supported Kerry and believe in democracy... [Re: 1stimer]
    #3319262 -

Great observation!
Lets see, I am not religious in any sense nor have I attended church in more than 17 years. My income bracket is in the $30k range. And considering the moneys I gave to charities I would hardly say greedy.

Next?

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Re: To all who supported Kerry and believe in democracy... [Re: Stein]
    #3319279 -

ideology.

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Re: To all who supported Kerry and believe in democracy... [Re: Vvellum]
    #3319335 -

From what I hear the fear mongering wasn't what won the election for bush. However his homophobia and pro-life views struck a chord with rural, conservative, christian voters. 11 states made amendments to their freakin constitutions to ban gay marriage.


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Re: To all who supported Kerry and believe in democracy... [Re: oggleman]
    #3319428 -

Quote:
However his homophobia and pro-life views struck a chord with rural, conservative, christian voters



wow, what an ignorant observation.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: To all who supported Kerry and believe in democracy... [Re: Innvertigo]
    #3319524 -

wow, what an ignorant observation.

It's the conclusion that all political analysts I've heard after the election has come up with. Of course, political analysts are just a part of the vast lib'ural academic conspiracy.

Also, the exit polls showed exactly the same thing. States with a majority for Bush were also the states where 'moral issues' were almost the only issues that mattered.


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Re: To all who supported Kerry and believe in democracy... [Re: AntiMeme]
    #3319567 -

Quote:
It's the conclusion that all political analysts I've heard after the election has come up with



that's a huge generalization and i'm somewhat shocked (i shouldn't be). It couldn't be that Kerry was a fuckstick and the American people didn't fall for his liberal BS. It has to be because people are racist homophobes who as Jesus for guidence on every decision they make in their life.

Face it, the US is not a liberal country.

Quote:
Also, the exit polls showed exactly the same thing.



Are those the same exit polls that had Kerry winning the election and the Dems picking up seats in the senate? hmmphh.

Quote:
States with a majority for Bush were also the states where 'moral issues' were almost the only issues that mattered.



The gay marriage issue was on our ballot and lost miserably (for the supporters of gay marraige) and Kerry won this state.(Mich)


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: To all who supported Kerry and believe in democracy... [Re: Innvertigo]
    #3319665 -

So its an ignorant observation? How else do you explain that the majority of americans oppose the war yet the majority of americans voted for the guy who started the war? That seems pretty clear to me that the war isn't the issue that helped bush win.

How else do you explain the fact that 11 states amended their constitutions to ban gay marriage?

How else do you explain the fact that most of the states bush won considered moral issues most important to them?


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Re: To all who supported Kerry and believe in democracy... [Re: oggleman]
    #3320179 -

Quote:
So its an ignorant observation? How else do you explain that the majority of americans oppose the war yet the majority of americans voted for the guy who started the war?



A majority of americans support the war.

Quote:
That seems pretty clear to me that the war isn't the issue that helped bush win.



I would say it was in the top 2.

Quote:
How else do you explain the fact that 11 states amended their constitutions to ban gay marriage?



I've already mentioned this, my state banned gay marraige and Kerry won my state. Same goes for Oregon. Face it, a majority of the people, religion aside, didn't want it to something like 4:1

Quote:
How else do you explain the fact that most of the states bush won considered moral issues most important to them?



where those the same exit polls you refferred to earlier. I wasn't asked why I voted and i'm sure 95% of the voters weren't asked either.


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: To all who supported Kerry and believe in democracy... [Re: Biohazard81]
    #3320336 -

I think that if the democrats had run a decent candidate, Bush would have lost. But it was obvious to anyone who really listened to Kerry or looked at his do-nothing record that he was just a party puppet who was willing to say anything to get elected. When presented with a candidate like that, even a loser like Bush can win when he's the incumbent.

My advice to those of you who despise the Republicans is instead of tearing your hair out and proclaiming how stupid Americans are for not appreciating the piece of shit candidate the democrats offered them, start working on the Democratic party for next time around. Give the voters a real choice, not an empty shell of a man with a worn out platform.

Put together a REAL, long-term peace platform (not Kerry's vague namby-pamby hot air).

Start backing off the drug war.

Give up on the "tax the rich" crap. The rich already pay most of the taxes. You've wrung it dry.

Ease up on the attacks on business. Business makes the world go 'round.

And quit trying to take away people's guns. You'll always have a hard time in the west and the south if you don't.

If the Democrats don't shape up you guys can look forward to Republican control the rest of your lives.


KS


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"Who would be free themselves must strike the blow" -Lord Byron

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