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OfflineZahid
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Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
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Bush Support Among Arab Americans Tumbles
    #3059841 - 08/27/04 10:42 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

New Poll--bush Support Among Arab Americans Tumbles
NEW POLL--BUSH SUPPORT AMONG ARAB AMERICANS TUMBLES
Marcelo Ballve, Pacific News Service, 8/26/04
http://news.pacificnews.org/news/vi...=ba0d8edbc77c45
0db7e3c8b88e203125

EDITOR'S NOTE: A poll commissioned by Amnesty International and New
California Media shows Pres. George Bush is in trouble with Arab Americans,
who are key voters in some swing states. Marcelo Ballve is a PNS editor.

Arab Americans, who represent key votes in Midwestern swing states like
Michigan and Ohio, have starkly negative views of President Bush's handling
of Iraq, prefer his Democratic opponent, John Kerry, and report
experiencing high levels of persecution since the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks, a
new poll shows.

A multilingual poll by Miami-based Bendixen & Associates show that 73
percent of Arab Americans do not support President Bush's handling of Iraq.
The opinion poll of Arabs, Pakistanis and Iranians in the United States was
commissioned by Amnesty International USA and New California Media (NCM), a
nationwide association of ethnic media.

"I haven't seen [support] this low from any one group in the United
States," says pollster Sergio Bendixen.

When asked how long the U.S. should keep troops in Iraq, 45 percent of Arab
Americans believe troops should be removed from Iraq immediately, and 40
percent say the United States should stay out of the Middle East
altogether.

The Amnesty/NCM poll was done in Persian, Urdu, Arabic and English between
Aug. 2 and Aug. 18, as violence continued in Iraq and President Bush and
Democratic candidate John F. Kerry debated Iraq policy and anti-terror
strategy. For the 400 Arab Americans surveyed, the margin of error is plus
or minus 5 percent. For the samples of 100 Pakistani and 100 Iranian
Americans, the margin is plus or minus 9 percent.

The poll shows Arab Americans now support Kerry by a three- to-one margin.
Almost half (49 percent) of the 273 Arab American registered voters say
they will vote for Kerry, 16 percent support Bush and 14 percent prefer
Nader, who is Arab American. By contrast, in 2000 Arab American voters
chose Bush over Democrat Al Gore by a margin of 46 percent to 38 percent,
according to pollster James Zogby...


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OfflineJesusChrist
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Registered: 02/19/04
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Re: Bush Support Among Arab Americans Tumbles [Re: Zahid]
    #3059898 - 08/27/04 10:58 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Zahid said:
New Poll--bush Support Among Arab Americans Tumbles
NEW POLL--BUSH SUPPORT AMONG ARAB AMERICANS TUMBLES
Marcelo Ballve, Pacific News Service, 8/26/04
http://news.pacificnews.org/news/vi...=ba0d8edbc77c45
0db7e3c8b88e203125


"I haven't seen [support] this low from any one group in the United
States," says pollster Sergio Bendixen.






Sergio Bendixen should look at the voting record of black people, who vote in far higher numbers and far higher percentages against Bush. He should also look at members of the media, who also vote against Bush at higher rates than Arabs.


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Tastes just like chicken


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Bush Support Among Arab Americans Tumbles [Re: Zahid]
    #3059904 - 08/27/04 10:59 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

unfortunately..that might be part of the reason why bush is surging ahead in the polls...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Bush Support Among Arab Americans Tumbles [Re: Annapurna1]
    #3059922 - 08/27/04 11:02 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

What can I say, Bush lovers are racist.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Bush Support Among Arab Americans Tumbles [Re: Zahid]
    #3059954 - 08/27/04 11:10 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

of course they are..but why are there so damn many of them?? :mad2:...but if someone you know is a bush lover..then pls dunk their head in the toilet...thx...


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Bush Support Among Arab Americans Tumbles [Re: Annapurna1]
    #3059959 - 08/27/04 11:12 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Because America is the most un-evolved region in the Free World.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Bush Support Among Arab Americans Tumbles [Re: Zahid]
    #3059977 - 08/27/04 11:17 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

i dont think we can claim to be in the free world anymore...


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InvisibleEvolving
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Registered: 10/01/02
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Re: Bush Support Among Arab Americans Tumbles [Re: Zahid]
    #3060208 - 08/28/04 12:10 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Zahid said:
Because America is the most un-evolved region in the Free World.



Not any more un-evolved than the mid-east or any other region on the globe. It is not regions that are 'un-evolved' but the human capacity of reason which is undeveloped in large numbers of individuals. When people realize that the same morality they would expect from their children (ie., truthfullness, aversion to forcefully taking another's property, the sanctity of human life) they should also expect from their governments, when they refuse to sanction by proxy what is wrong for individuals, then perhaps we can consider them evolved. As it stands now, that vast majority of human individuals the world over wallow in infantile demands for gratification at someone else's expense, dressing up their desires as political enlightenment.

True evolution has already come to those who abandon coercion as a means of advancing their desires, who will only resort to force as a response to force, who treat their fellow man not as children to be scolded, punished and tempted with treats taken from others, but as sovereign individuals endowed with the capacity to reason.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Bush Support Among Arab Americans Tumbles [Re: Evolving]
    #3060230 - 08/28/04 12:19 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

*clap clap clap* Bravo!

Erudite, eloquent, concise, and unassailable.

pinky


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: Bush Support Among Arab Americans Tumbles [Re: Evolving]
    #3060284 - 08/28/04 12:34 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

"True evolution" according to *you*. Honestly, show me a single place where coercion is *not* THE way to get people to follow you. Using evolutionary psychology, any action is going to be favorable for you. Politicians will act for their own benefit ( which includes staying in as long as possible in most cases ), people will vote for their own gain and social heirarchy will always exist.

Yes, man should not be treated as a child and should be treated as if he had the capacity to reason, but will that *ever*( including any "evolution" ) truly be the case? No, you are bound by your physical limitations. If you would allow someone to destroy your own desires at the cost of "free speech" ( what? altruism? hah ), you would feel good about letting them do that, and likely advertise the fact.

I'd suggest looking into Richard Wrights "The Moral Animal," if you haven't , for at least a brief summary. We will never "evolve" ( become ) into altruistic beings, or evolution would simply not be possible. If you're going to run a "good" government, you should pay heed to what your definition of good is. Are you going to be Utilitarian and go for the greater good for all? How about following something like Locke's natural rights?


Pfft
you're living in a dry fantasy world of colleagues and altruism ( nonexistent )


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Bush Support Among Arab Americans Tumbles [Re: vampirism]
    #3060423 - 08/28/04 01:18 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Morrowind writes:

Honestly, show me a single place where coercion is *not* THE way to get people to follow you.

Have you never persuaded someone to do something? Every time you have managed to get someone to take action involved putting a gun to their head?

Using evolutionary psychology, any action is going to be favorable for you.

Non sequitur.

No, you are bound by your physical limitations.

And this means that others have the right to initiate force against you? How does this follow?

If you would allow someone to destroy your own desires at the cost of "free speech" ( what? altruism? hah ), you would feel good about letting them do that, and likely advertise the fact.

I'm sorry, but to me this sentence is pure gibberish. Can you rephrase, please?

We will never "evolve" ( become ) into altruistic beings...

Thank goodness!

How about following something like Locke's natural rights?

Did you actually read what he wrote? That is exactly what he advocates.

pinky


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: Bush Support Among Arab Americans Tumbles [Re: Phred]
    #3060523 - 08/28/04 01:54 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

"Did you actually read what he wrote? That is exactly what he advocates."

Yes, i know thats EXACTLY what he advocates. But my point, which perhaps I should have made clearer at the time, is that a group of self-interested beings cannot be kept in that "state of nature." At that point, would it honestly be that horrible to violate one man's rights for the good of many? Why?

"And this means that others have the right to initiate force against you? How does this follow?"
"Non sequitur."

No, but this does mean that you are a thinking animal who is motivated by his own desire and will act on them. Force is not necessary to destroy someone. Again, what is going to keep you from overstepping someone's natural rights for your own gain? Punishment? If you never get caught...

There will always be weasels who will ignore the rules and exploit whatever they can. If you keep to natural rights in all cases ( excluding punishment for, say, breaching those rights ), how will you keep track of those weasels?

"I'm sorry, but to me this sentence is pure gibberish. Can you rephrase, please? "

It'll still probably be jibberish if you don't accept evolutionary psychology as a valid theory, but fine. I was making a limited example, let's take Voltaire for a specific example, "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
Do you see how powerful that statement is? "Boy, Voltaire sure is an awesome guy! ".. exactly as he intended. If you accept that he had a motive for saying that, what is it?

To explain to you that he's just defending freedom at his own cost?
-thats a large boost to his image
To warn those who would stifle one's speech?
-Well thats quite a warning. "You're gonna hafta kill me to stop me"

ad infinitum
There is no motive which does not benefit him.
Non sequitur, you say?
This brings me to an actual point

Someone who will not gain from Locke's natural rights idea will not advocate it. It would apparently help you, so you advocate it. Other ethics will thus hurt you in some way, but you are only any individual. So should government secure the greatest good for the greatest number or should it just plain keep everyone safe and let them figure out what they want to do?

Well, I imagine that if the greatest good for the greatest number is NOT secured, then people will not support such a government ( simply because the majority will not be pleased ). Thus, "natural rights" cannot exist in government because it secures the importance of the individual and restricts a basic mammalian realization of desire. Humans are violent beings - they have always been. The only possible way that natural rights could be viable is IF people were altruistic - which they are not.

As for

"Have you never persuaded someone to do something? Every time you have managed to get someone to take action involved putting a gun to their head?"

I have. But coercion can also include pressuring and threats and such. Physical threats are irrelevant. Surely, you can see that money can be used as both an incentive, when offered or secured, and a threat, when restricted.


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Bush Support Among Arab Americans Tumbles [Re: Zahid]
    #3060827 - 08/28/04 03:51 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I think you are mistaken that altruism is not an intrinsic quality. I believe that altruism and morality is our natural state and selfishness is a disease of a dysfunctional mind.
I do not believe it in any kind of social evolution, because we are already posses what we need. The problem is ignorance, if people would only realize that compassion and helping others makes them feel good about their lives, and serving themselves does not our world would be much more functional and effective at solving problems.

As far as different societies being more enlightened (not evolved) than others I believe that socially our country is plagued by materialism, however: because we value both individual rights, as well as the common good and seek ways to reconcille the two, and in theory hold our government to a higher standard than we hold ourselves, we as a nation are a lot better off than other countries.


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Bush Support Among Arab Americans Tumbles [Re: Evolving]
    #3061236 - 08/28/04 08:48 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Third (ie undeveloped) world doesn't count.


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: Bush Support Among Arab Americans Tumbles [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3061398 - 08/28/04 11:17 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

whenever we seem "altruistic" we're either helping our kin or doing it for status.


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OfflineEd1
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Re: Bush Support Among Arab Americans Tumbles [Re: Zahid]
    #3061429 - 08/28/04 11:38 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)



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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: Bush Support Among Arab Americans Tumbles [Re: Ed1]
    #3061455 - 08/28/04 11:53 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

stop polluting this thread with your filth, jackass


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OfflineEd1
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Re: Bush Support Among Arab Americans Tumbles [Re: vampirism]
    #3061482 - 08/28/04 12:11 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Morrowind you cocksucker. Stop following me around you piece of shit. Go to hell with all of Allah's terrorists.


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: Bush Support Among Arab Americans Tumbles [Re: Ed1]
    #3061485 - 08/28/04 12:11 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

fuck you asshole, i was replying to your worthless and fascist posts. All criticism must come from terrorists, huh? eat shit and die


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Bush Support Among Arab Americans Tumbles [Re: Zahid]
    #3061554 - 08/28/04 12:40 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Zahid said:
What can I say, Bush lovers are racist.



Hey, I'm no fan of Bush myself, but come on! Why do you have to make such ridiculous statements?


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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