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OfflineSigno
manamana
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Kerry is going to destroy Bush in the debates.
    #3026260 - 08/19/04 10:39 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

BOSTON, Massachusetts (CNN) -- Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry accused President Bush on Thursday of letting front groups "do his dirty work" in questioning his military service during the Vietnam War.

"The president keeps telling people he would never question my service to our country. Instead, he watches as a Republican-funded attack group does just that," Kerry told a firefighters' union conference in his hometown of Boston.

"Well, if he wants to have a debate about our service in Vietnam, here is my answer: Bring it on." --John Kerry

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/19/kerry.attackads/index.html


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Correlation is not causation!

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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Re: Kerry is going to destroy Bush in the debates. [Re: Signo]
    #3026279 - 08/19/04 10:43 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Dan Quayle could destroy Bush in the debates.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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OfflineSigno
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Re: Kerry is going to destroy Bush in the debates. [Re: silversoul7]
    #3026304 - 08/19/04 10:48 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

:lol: I'd agree


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Correlation is not causation!

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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

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Re: Kerry is going to destroy Bush in the debates. [Re: Signo]
    #3026427 - 08/19/04 11:16 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

So Bush should use censorship? Yep, that should go over realy well.

Also did kerry forget about Micheal Moore, Moveonpac, and countless others. I mean moveonpac compared Bush to FUCKING HITLER and i didn't hear a damn peep out of Kerry.

Hypocrite?


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I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang

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Anonymous

Post deleted by Anno [Re: d33p]
    #3027049 - 08/20/04 02:30 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)


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Offlined33p
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Re: Kerry is going to destroy Bush in the debates. [Re: ]
    #3028478 - 08/20/04 12:26 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Fiend said:
Quote:

So Bush should use censorship? Yep, that should go over realy well.




What kind of mental illness causes one to see anyone suggesting censorship anywhere in this thread?




Read the whole article silly head. Jeez....... some people


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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
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Re: Kerry is going to destroy Bush in the debates. [Re: Signo]
    #3028513 - 08/20/04 12:40 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

bring it on....I love it.


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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Anonymous

Post deleted by Anno [Re: d33p]
    #3031018 - 08/21/04 12:28 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)


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Offlined33p
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Re: Kerry is going to destroy Bush in the debates. [Re: ]
    #3031156 - 08/21/04 01:09 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Woops in this article Kerry says he only wants Bush to denounce the ads not try and stop them. I guess Kerry is the only one trying to use censorship this time. My mistake.


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I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang

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Anonymous

Post deleted by Anno [Re: d33p]
    #3031478 - 08/21/04 02:55 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)


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Offlined33p
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Re: Kerry is going to destroy Bush in the debates. [Re: ]
    #3031484 - 08/21/04 02:58 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Fiend said:
Quote:

So Bush should use censorship? Yep, that should go over realy well.




After reading everything in it's entirety (again) no mention of censorship was found by me. Wow you checked again after i retracted my statement. Ya retarded?

Quote:

Woops in this article Kerry says he only wants Bush to denounce the ads not try and stop them.




Apparently none was found by you either as supported by your own statement above. Yep keep pieces the evidence together sherlock

Quote:

I guess Kerry is the only one trying to use censorship this time. My mistake.




Interesting how that materialized out of nowhere isn't it? This must be a fascinating disease, that you could keep seeing something that isn't there after all this double checking. Maybe if you read more news than just cnn you would know kerry actually is fighting to censor these people. Its just not *gasp* mentioned in this article.




--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang

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Anonymous

Post deleted by Anno [Re: d33p]
    #3031536 - 08/21/04 03:31 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)


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Offlined33p
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Re: Kerry is going to destroy Bush in the debates. [Re: ]
    #3032439 - 08/21/04 12:12 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Fiend said:
You really want the last word don't you?

(A) It's obvious to anyone reading this that all of your comments were regarding this article and thread up until you were exposed and you conveiniently tried to use Kerry's complaint to the FEC (which I don't blame him for lodging) as a way to be "right". That's what I like about you d33p, your ability to admit when you're wrong and move on to bigger and better ideas. I can't mention stuff not in thread but related to the topic? Are you kidding?
(B) The FEC isn't censoring anything unless laws were violated, in which case they'll "just be going by the law as it's written today" (sound familiar?) Never mentioned the FCC.... What disorder do you have?
(C) I think it's funny how the focus of this suddenly shifted from the article at hand to me needing to read more news than CNN which is incidentely where I read the article talking about Kerry lodging his complaint (Lodging a complaint to have them investigate whether a law has been broken = censorship in your world?)




The thread was dying after i admitted i was wrong. Its late, i skim and i thought it said he asked bush to try and get them to stop the ads. You want me to suck your dick or something?

And you have the nerve to say i require the last word. My last word was me saying my mistake and then your next post had no substance except for attacking me and being the last word. Please post after this, just don't insult me or saw something which would obviously grant a response from me.


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I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang

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InvisibleKingOftheThing
the cool fool
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Re: Kerry is going to destroy Bush in the debates. [Re: d33p]
    #3032493 - 08/21/04 12:31 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

d33p said:
So Bush should use censorship? Yep, that should go over realy well.

Also did kerry forget about Micheal Moore, Moveonpac, and countless others. I mean moveonpac compared Bush to FUCKING HITLER and i didn't hear a damn peep out of Kerry.

Hypocrite?




michael moore is not tied to the Kerry campaign, yes he wants him to win but only to defeat bush. moore was a nader voter/supporter in 2000. Moveonpac NEVER compared bush to hitler, they had a contest for anti bush ads in which someone submitted the hitler one. it did not win and was removed from the site. swift boat veterans for truth is DIRECTLY tied to the bush campaing. you are trying to justify by comparing unlike things. oh and you're doing a little lying too. i guess i should be used to u right-wingers by now :wink:

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Offlined33p
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Re: Kerry is going to destroy Bush in the debates. [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #3032515 - 08/21/04 12:37 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

KingOftheThing said:
Quote:

d33p said:
So Bush should use censorship? Yep, that should go over realy well.

Also did kerry forget about Micheal Moore, Moveonpac, and countless others. I mean moveonpac compared Bush to FUCKING HITLER and i didn't hear a damn peep out of Kerry.

Hypocrite?




michael moore is not tied to the Kerry campaign, yes he wants him to win but only to defeat bush. moore was a nader voter/supporter in 2000. Moveonpac NEVER compared bush to hitler, they had a contest for anti bush ads in which someone submitted the hitler one. it did not win and was removed from the site. swift boat veterans for truth is DIRECTLY tied to the bush campaing. you are trying to justify by comparing unlike things. oh and you're doing a little lying too. i guess i should be used to u right-wingers by now :wink:




Oh please those swift boat veterns money trails follows a path similar to how kerry and bush are related. Bush has nothing to do with them, just like Kerry had nothing to do with the people i mentioned. And i don't see how moore is a nadar supporter when i watched him geb nadar not to run..... That moveonpac ad was on their site. They condoned it, good enough in my books.

jeez you skim an article at night and pick up instead of just denounce but to stop, and im gonna hear about this forever.

edit: and to make it clear. I did not lie. I honest to god thought it had said that in the article.


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Edited by d33p (08/21/04 12:44 PM)

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InvisibleKingOftheThing
the cool fool
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Re: Kerry is going to destroy Bush in the debates. [Re: d33p]
    #3032553 - 08/21/04 12:50 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

i said moore WAS a nader supporter in 2000 and he probably still would be if bush werent such a threat to the country

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Offlined33p
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Re: Kerry is going to destroy Bush in the debates. [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #3032564 - 08/21/04 12:52 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

KingOftheThing said:
i said moore WAS a nader supporter in 2000 and he probably still would be if bush werent such a threat to the country




See its all that damn skimming :smirk:


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Registered: 11/02/03
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Re: Kerry is going to destroy Bush in the debates. [Re: Signo]
    #3032815 - 08/21/04 01:53 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

I for one do not think Kerry will beat Bush in the debates. For one Bush is often portrayed in caricatures that make him seem much less intelligent than he actually is. Having actually heard some of his campaign speechs in their entirety (and not just little sound bites of Bush fumbling with a words) I think he will do much better than most expect him to.

As for Kerry "Yeah, well I would do that...except better!" won't be the most effective debating strategy. Kerry does not provide any specifics our propose any serious policy, rather he bases all of his statements as binary oposition to Bush, whether there is any sense to them or not, or whether he contradict himself. He can't say why Bush's policy is wrong, or why his would be a good idea, he just attacks Bush and ignores the issue. Kerry's self-contradictions such as with Bush's troop withdrawl will also weaken his position.

As for those ads, once again I Kerry is being ridiculous. Calling the Swift Boat veterans some secret front for the Bush campaign is preposterous considering HUGE amounts of soft money by similar groups against Bush. If Kerry can say the Swift Boat Vets are part of the Bush campaign then GEorge Soros, Moveon.org, the Media Fund, Michael Moore, etc. are all fronts for Kerry and he is being a hypocrit. Again. It's just like right after the Democratic Convention when Edwards and Kerry criticized Bush for negative adds they went on a blitz of negative ads and attacks. Once again, total hypocrisy.

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Offlinethieverycorp
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Registered: 08/06/04
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Re: Kerry is going to destroy Bush in the debates. [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3032901 - 08/21/04 02:17 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

can i have the last word?

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Offlinedeafpanda
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Registered: 05/07/04
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Re: Kerry is going to destroy Bush in the debates. [Re: thieverycorp]
    #3034376 - 08/21/04 09:13 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

No

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OfflineWorf
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Registered: 07/04/04
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Re: Kerry is going to destroy Bush in the debates. [Re: Signo]
    #3034818 - 08/21/04 11:23 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

I would NOT underestimate Bush. People underestimated him in 2000. This will not happen again. Bush is a power to be reckoned with.

Deep, Kerry denounced the moveon.org's commercial critisizing bushs military service after he talked the john mccain.

Kerry isn't denouncing michael moore because that is entirely different. His movie is something people willingly go out and pay money to see for entertainment. Not commercials by non-profit organisations claiming not to be partisan like Swift Boat Vets for Bush.

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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Kerry is going to destroy Bush in the debates. [Re: Worf]
    #3035139 - 08/22/04 01:33 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

outputrotation said:


Deep, Kerry denounced the moveon.org's commercial critisizing bushs military service after he talked the john mccain.





Yes this is true. Likewise Bush also, to the same effect, denounced groups that question Kerry's record. I think both sides are about the same with regards to the military service issue, they lightly denounce groups targeting the other cantidate, while loudly complaining about the negative ads that target them.

However, it is also true that millions have been spent by anti-Bush 527s, and Kerry has not denounced all but two of them. Compare that to the controversy over Bush's one 527 and it seems like a pretty big double standard. Michael Moore aside, with all the anti-Bush ads out there Kerry getting his feathers ruffled over two that target him is a little silly. Even more amusing is that he rejects Bush's dissavowel of the Swift Boat Vets, while makes an equally weak effort with moveon.org.

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Offlineunbeliever
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Re: Kerry is going to destroy Bush in the debates. [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3035166 - 08/22/04 01:49 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Divided_Sky said:
Quote:

outputrotation said:


Deep, Kerry denounced the moveon.org's commercial critisizing bushs military service after he talked the john mccain.





Yes this is true. Likewise Bush also, to the same effect, denounced groups that question Kerry's record. I think both sides are about the same with regards to the military service issue, they lightly denounce groups targeting the other cantidate, while loudly complaining about the negative ads that target them.

However, it is also true that millions have been spent by anti-Bush 527s, and Kerry has not denounced all but two of them. Compare that to the controversy over Bush's one 527 and it seems like a pretty big double standard. Michael Moore aside, with all the anti-Bush ads out there Kerry getting his feathers ruffled over two that target him is a little silly. Even more amusing is that he rejects Bush's dissavowel of the Swift Boat Vets, while makes an equally weak effort with moveon.org.




The main problem is the swiftboat veterans are flat out lying in almost everything they say. Not slanting, not skewing, not taking out of context, not trying to confuse the situation. They are flat out lying. NONE of them served with JK on his boat, and only a couple were even THERE of the main day in contention (when kerry got his bronze medal).

The main reasons the sbvft hate kerry are because after the war (which he volunteered for) he came back and protested the war and also because they're being PAID to say these things by serious republican money. Bush even knows several of them personally. In any case, it's just bull shit mudslinging just like what happened to Mccain. The bush admin fights dirty and avoids any legitimate issues in their campaigning. The spoon-fed media makes it worse too, especially certain right-wing sycophant outlets *cough* faux news *cough*.

If I was Kerry, I'd be pissed too if my opponent paid some people to lie about something that happened 30 years ago and it was plastered all over the headlines by gloryhound hack journalists.


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Kerry is going to destroy Bush in the debates. [Re: Signo]
    #3035237 - 08/22/04 02:16 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Kerry hasn't refuted a single one of their claims, he just calls them liars and ignores the issue. So far they actually got him to admit that he never did spend Christmas in Cambodia. That ought to bring up a few red flags. It makes me wonder if they are telling the truth.

Here are the facts: Swift Boat Vets have 60 guys in Kerry's unit, including superiors, bunkmates etc. who all claim he is lying, though few were on his boat. However, that does not mean they are not in a position to contradict him.

I don't believe the Swift Boat Vets are out there because Bush paid them. O'Neil has had a bone to pick with Kerry since the 70s for claiming their unit was commiting war crimes. I think he has a right to set the record straight.

Kerry has 9 guys who were all on his boat, if only for a short amount of time.

So who do you believe?

I do not buy the argument that Bush is putting vets up to lie about Kerry. I'm sure Kerry believes that, and that is the very reason I won't vote for him; he is living in his own little world.

The Swift Boat Vets might be lying, but that is an awful lot of people to all be lying about Kerry. I don't think Kerry's guys are lying either so it has hard to say what really happened.

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Offlineunbeliever
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Re: Kerry is going to destroy Bush in the debates. [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3035278 - 08/22/04 02:38 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Divided_Sky said:
Kerry hasn't refuted a single one of their claims, he just calls them liars and ignores the issue. So far they actually got him to admit that he never did spend Christmas in Cambodia. That ought to bring up a few red flags. It makes me wonder if they are telling the truth.

Here are the facts: Swift Boat Vets have 60 guys in Kerry's unit, including superiors, bunkmates etc. who all claim he is lying, though few were on his boat. However, that does not mean they are not in a position to contradict him.

I don't believe the Swift Boat Vets are out there because Bush paid them. O'Neil has had a bone to pick with Kerry since the 70s for claiming their unit was commiting war crimes. I think he has a right to set the record straight.

Kerry has 9 guys who were all on his boat, if only for a short amount of time.

So who do you believe?

I do not buy the argument that Bush is putting vets up to lie about Kerry. I'm sure Kerry believes that, and that is the very reason I won't vote for him; he is living in his own little world.

The Swift Boat Vets might be lying, but that is an awful lot of people to all be lying about Kerry. I don't think Kerry's guys are lying either so it has hard to say what really happened.




9 guys who were ALL *right* there on the boat and they all back kerry up. Or a bunch of bitter right-wing war vets getting a lot of money and exposure by saying kerry didn't earn his bronze star. Pretty lame if you ask me. Honestly unless there is any real evidence or proof, I'm happy to accept the word of the guy who's life kerry saved.

I just don't get how the draft-dodging bush can even justify attacking kerry's war record. Or McCain's a few years back. Or his other opponents, it's one of Bush's favorite campaign "tactics", to question the opponents military service as if his was so great (or even happened).


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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: Kerry is going to destroy Bush in the debates. [Re: unbeliever]
    #3035328 - 08/22/04 03:13 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

"The main problem is the swiftboat veterans are flat out lying in almost everything they say. Not slanting, not skewing, not taking out of context, not trying to confuse the situation. They are flat out lying. NONE of them served with JK on his boat, and only a couple were even THERE of the main day in contention (when kerry got his bronze medal). "

You DO know that those swift boats travel in GROUPS, right?

You know, a bunch together.

those guys?  On the other boats.

By the way, two of Kerry's purple hearts?  Self-inflicted.  Undershot a grenade launcher and hurt himself, that's a purple heart, dropped a grenade into a rice bin and held on to it too long, rice in the ass, that's two. 

The only guy who's really supported Kerry's claims of fire from the bank when he pulled that guy.. rassmann?  from the water... was the guy that was bobbing in the water.  And, obviously the other boats would have immediately opened fire on both sides of the river as soon as that boat had hit a mine.  'course Kerry's boat took the hell off immediately..  which is the perfect thing to do when a boat was hit by a mine, rush off a breakneck speed.

Those videos of him in the jungle?

He staged them and had someone else shoot them on an 8mm camera he bought and brought with him.

Why the hell would you want a video of what looks like you sneaking through the jungle? 


Kerry cannot win a debate.  Simply stating "I completely disagree with you!  I would do things MUCH better!" may win votes, because hey..  people are fuckin stupid yanno?  but in a debate, unless it really is just the farce it probably is, that argument is worse than worthless.


By the by has anyone caught Kerry's comments about hunting.. yes apparently he stalks up to deer on his stomach..  yes yes, this, dear people, is a man who has been hunting, you know, in those things, what are they called, trees?  :crazy2:  That ranks up there with Al Gore getting lost in the woods outside DC as the all-time greatest democrat self-inflicted wounds.

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OfflineMilkyMedia
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Re: Kerry is going to destroy Bush in the debates. [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #3035436 - 08/22/04 04:11 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

shit...you've heard or played the game "Telephone" right...well imagine a game that's several decades long. Who know's what the hell the truth is. And why is this an election issue...WTF!!...



For 5 free Bush Devil/Bush Alfred E. Newman 2"x3" sticker...PM me with your addy...then stick them up in your town!

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OfflineFungushead
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Re: Kerry is going to destroy Bush in the debates. [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3035507 - 08/22/04 05:49 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I for one do not think Kerry will beat Bush in the debates. For one Bush is often portrayed in caricatures that make him seem much less intelligent than he actually is. Having actually heard some of his campaign speechs in their entirety (and not just little sound bites of Bush fumbling with a words) I think he will do much better than most expect him to.

As for Kerry "Yeah, well I would do that...except better!" won't be the most effective debating strategy. Kerry does not provide any specifics our propose any serious policy, rather he bases all of his statements as binary oposition to Bush, whether there is any sense to them or not, or whether he contradict himself. He can't say why Bush's policy is wrong, or why his would be a good idea, he just attacks Bush and ignores the issue. Kerry's self-contradictions such as with Bush's troop withdrawl will also weaken his position.
As for those ads, once again I Kerry is being ridiculous. Calling the Swift Boat veterans some secret front for the Bush campaign is preposterous considering HUGE amounts of soft money by similar groups against Bush. If Kerry can say the Swift Boat Vets are part of the Bush campaign then GEorge Soros, Moveon.org, the Media Fund, Michael Moore, etc. are all fronts for Kerry and he is being a hypocrit. Again. It's just like right after the Democratic Convention when Edwards and Kerry criticized Bush for negative adds they went on a blitz of negative ads and attacks. Once again, total hypocrisy.



I think he just may beat Bush in a debate. As you say, Bush is portrayed as a dumbass by his opponents. He'll be well prepped for a debate, however. I think he will stick to his script and avoid wading into an argument he's not prepared for. Kerry will press on the main issues, the war, foreign policy, etc, but if he's a clever tactician he'll attack with an unforseen topic - like maybe the destruction of the environment (yeah it's not new, but it'd be something that Mr. Bush might not be expecting to have to debate in any great detail, what with all the other hot topics going 'round). If he can push the bush into muddy waters, Kerry will win the verbal debate.

I don't like either one though.


--------------------
2004: The year telemarketing started to shrivel up like a cold pair of nuts.

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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

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Re: Kerry is going to destroy Bush in the debates. [Re: MilkyMedia]
    #3035857 - 08/22/04 09:58 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MilkyMedia said:
shit...you've heard or played the game "Telephone" right...well imagine a game that's several decades long. Who know's what the hell the truth is. And why is this an election issue...WTF!!...





These are the people who served in vietnam with JFK, its not like telephone at all. And the only reason it is an election issue is because JFK made it such a big issue in his campaign. It is the only real thing he uses to distinguish himself.

And nice post mushmonkey  :thumbup:


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Kerry is going to destroy Bush in the debates. [Re: Signo]
    #3036091 - 08/22/04 11:42 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

pushing aside the specific issue of vietnam...i think bush will destroy kerry in the debate in two ways ..1) style always matters more than substance..and its easy to imagine bushs' bellicose ranting overwhelming kerrys' accurate but non-exciting answers.. 2) kerry has foolishly painted himself into a corner on iraq and other "national security" issues..where even a chimpanzee could catch him...

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