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Offlinealphaone
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How to communicate with spirit helpers?
    #3270727 - 10/24/04 08:02 AM (13 years, 1 day ago)

Well this post might sound kinda looney, so if it does skip it. Otherwise read on :smile:


It is undisputable that almost every mushroom trip will expand your consciousness, give you more insight into your own being, the nature of the external world, and the relationship between you and the external world.

But there?s another thing which isn?t mentioned too often, not even here at the shroomery. Let?s admit it, most if not all of our trips boil down to traversing our own mental pathways and having better connection with nature and people. Having fun. However, does any extrasensory kind of perception occur in the process? (Now I'm not thinking about the vibrations of trees in nature, non-verbal communication with animals etc. I'm talking about concrete encounters with other intelligences higher than ours). As far as this is concerned, I think in most cases the answer is - no. At least not in my case. Almost everything I?ve experienced so far could be explained away with that which had already been present in my brain, in my memories. But is real extrasensory perception and communication with other intelligent beings possible at all?

Some would say it?s just not possible, because even during psychedelic trips one cannot communicate with anybody except one's own self and the immediate surroundings, so don't bother. Everything that seems that's coming outside your mind is just a hallucination. Well, is it?


While reading Gordon Wasson?s reports of his experiences with Maria Sabina and her veladas (night vigils), it occurred to me that most of us shroom trippers are perhaps missing out the most important asset a mushroom trip can offer, i.e. the ability to establish communication with intelligence(s) other than our own. To acquire so-called helping spirits. To gain knowledge that we haven't acquired through our five senses through ordinary methods. Isn?t that the primary goal of every shaman? To be able to know things that are obscure and probably can't be known by normal means.


Maria Sabina said that the mushrooms were connected with certain beings/spirits that used to 'speak' in her native language and that now, when westerners had discovered the mushrooms and intended to use them only for fun or to find God, the mushroom deities wouldn't cooperate any more, because they had used to pass information only when somebody needed to be cured of an illness, or some stolen property had to be traced.


She also said that she mastered her full shamanic powers only when her sister got ill. On that occasion she ate a lot of mushrooms, much more than ever before, and then a certain higher being showed her "a book" where everything was written. Though she couldn?t read, she gained all knowledge she needed for being a successful shamaness.


There?s also her warning that the mushrooms won?t reveal their inmost secrets to everyone. It appears one has to have the right kind of commitment and determination (or predisposition?) to get their full ?blessing?:

Quote:


"The mushroom is similar to your soul. And not all souls are the same. Marcial [her second husband, a violent and drunken man] had taken the teo-nan?catl [sacred mushrooms], had had visions, but the visions served no purpose. Many people of the sierra have taken it and are taking it, but not everyone enters into the world where everything is known.


"Also Ana Mar?a, my sister, began taking them together with me, had the same visions, talked to the mushrooms, but the mushrooms did not reveal all their secrets. The secrets that they revealed to me are enclosed in a big Book that they showed me and that is found in a region very far away from their world, a great Book. They gave it to me when Ana Mar?a fell ill ? and seemed almost near death.?


"So I decided to return again to the teo-nan?catl. I took many, many more than I had ever taken before: thirty plus thirty. I loved my sister and was ready to do anything, even to make a very long trip, just to save her. I was sitting in front of her with my body, but my soul was entering the world of the teo-nan?catl and was seeing the same landscape that it had seen many other times, then landscapes that it had never seen because the great number of mushrooms had taken me into the deepest of the depths of that world.


"I was going ahead until, at one point, a duende, a spirit, came toward me. He asked a strange question: 'But what do you wish to become, you, Mar?a Sabina?'


'I answered him, without knowing, that I wished to become a saint. Then the spirit smiled, and immediately he had in his hands something that he did not have before, and it was a big Book with many written pages.


"'Here,' he said. 'I am giving you this Book so that you can do your work better and help people who need help and know the secrets of the world where everything is known.'






More about Maria Sabina at: http://www.wf.net/~aardvark/ee/essays/maria_sabina.htm

(the original Time Magazine article link is at the bottom of the page)


My question is: Are there any shroomerites out there who have tried  to communicate with higher beings (i.e. to gain spirit helpers and enter the world 'where everything is known') while under the influence of mushrooms? If so, how is it done? Are there some rituals, meditations, specific settings etc. if one wishes to achieve that?

I would like to do it in order to gain the ability to cure physical and mental diseases (to the extent it is possible).

I know that John C. Lilly had similar encounters with some incorporeal beings while on LSD in his floatation tank.

Maybe we could start some kind of a workshop as an experiment, to try to summon up those spirits and see 1) if they exist 2) if they are willing to communicate with us 3) what we can learn from them.

Well, who knows... Perhaps that's the will of the mushroom? :laugh:


Edited by alphaone (10/24/04 08:36 PM)


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Invisiblegeorge castanzaM
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Re: How to communicate with spirit helpers? [Re: alphaone]
    #3270744 - 10/24/04 08:20 AM (13 years, 1 day ago)

all things are now possible
they are not called "magic mushrooms" for nothing
i would be interested in the findings of any study/experiment done


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Offlinealphaone
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Re: How to communicate with spirit helpers? [Re: george castanza]
    #3271361 - 10/24/04 02:35 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

Well, if it is possible, how exactly can it be achieved? Any specific procedures? I think the term "magic mushrooms" was coined by english speaking people, it doesn't have much to do with the native indian tradition. They call them "teonanacatl" or "children".

Btw. I heard of a study with DTM conducted by Rick Strassman. It's described in his book DMT: The Spirit Molecule .

The participants reported seeing aliens, angels, and spirits in a decidedly non-psychedelic atmosphere, so it made it look all the more real.


Now's the question how to achieve something similar with mushrooms. In other words, how to become a real shaman?


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: How to communicate with spirit helpers? [Re: alphaone]
    #3272086 - 10/24/04 06:05 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

There will be a question about this in the Tripper's FAQ.

Thanks for the post and your interest.

Terrance McKenna talks about such things too...


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OfflinekLaWsRauGHt
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Re: How to communicate with spirit helpers? [Re: alphaone]
    #3273848 - 10/25/04 02:25 AM (13 years, 21 hours ago)

i have read that same report awhile back,
id be very interested in anything you can find out,
i personaly am obsessed with the teachings of don juan..
and have been prepairing to conduct many experiments of my own..
feel free to private message me if you have any information/questions..about anything :smile:
and best of luck!


--------------------
"I love the expansiveness of thought, i detest the morbidity of the mind"


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Offlinemushroomman23
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Re: How to communicate with spirit helpers? [Re: kLaWsRauGHt]
    #3283088 - 10/27/04 07:55 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I'm glad u posted this i am one that belives that mushrooms are a key to a diffrent world a world that is as real as this one. i had a very very bad trip one time that kept me away from shrooms for a wile i know look at it like i needed to have that bad trip to have true respect for the mushroom. on my last trip befor i ingested my mushrooms i said what u could call a prayer it went kind of like this i throw my self in front of you show me what you will be it good or bad o mushroom sounds silly but i will tell u what that trip was diffrent from any trip i ever had one reason is i was not looking for a good or bad trip i was willing to except what ever the mush wished to show me and there was a time during the trip when i was communicating with somthing of great wisdom i did not see this thigh nor did i communicate with it in any norml human way. i believe the only way the mushrooms will truly show them selves to you is if you approach them with the realty that they are not some toy to kill a Saturday night with


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InvisibleKOPELANDIAA
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Re: How to communicate with spirit helpers? [Re: george castanza]
    #3283497 - 10/27/04 11:15 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

? Why an experiment ? Why a study ? You must engage yourself totally if you want to communicate with spirits. Do you think you can study spirits in a lab ?


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Offlinedmtrypr
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Re: How to communicate with spirit helpers? [Re: KOPELANDIAA]
    #3283991 - 10/27/04 01:32 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I agree that to try and intellectualize or conceptualize that which escapes our everyday perception is a futile exercise. We take psychedelics to not only expand our limited mind but to take our mind to another place. The plane of pure being that is inhabited by the entities that we call spirits and gods. We can visit there by self-medicating or meditating, either way its a trip that resists post-carding. We aren't able to bring a camera so the experience MUST be subjective. If you truly seek guidance from another being other than yourself, affirm it with all of your heart, mind, and soul. Ask for a sign to show you the way. Trust yourself when you see the sign and follow it to the doorway of the subtle realm. The higher planes exist simultaneously with the gross. To recieve information from higher beings is simply a matter of opening oneself up to this possiblity.


--------------------
"There is no greater power in heaven and earth than the thought of the son of man. Though unseen by the eyes of the body,yet each thought has mighty strength, even such strength can shake the heavens." -Gospel of the Essenes


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OfflinekLaWsRauGHt
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Re: How to communicate with spirit helpers? [Re: kLaWsRauGHt]
    #3284431 - 10/27/04 03:09 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

naguro zo!


--------------------
"I love the expansiveness of thought, i detest the morbidity of the mind"


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Offlinediddlesticks22
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Re: How to communicate with spirit helpers? [Re: kLaWsRauGHt]
    #3285859 - 10/27/04 07:54 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I made contact one night with "The Creature who is Everything and Nothing" - A sort of geometic energy field.

"The Creature" was welcoming me to this new state of mind, and talking me through it and what it meant. It was a very friendly, caring and understanding....Almost like it was the teacher, and I was it's sole pupil.

Whenever I'd let myself go, and just roll with the experience "The Creature" kept encouraging me to be in control, go higher, and to learn new things.

I have never felt so comfortable...it was like it was my own personal teacher. It felt like it was also protecting me from freaking out.

Sorry if I sound like a total nut case!

James


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Offlinealphaone
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Re: How to communicate with spirit helpers? [Re: KOPELANDIAA]
    #3294996 - 10/29/04 08:54 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:


? Why an experiment ? Why a study ? You must engage yourself totally if you want to communicate with spirits. Do you think you can study spirits in a lab ?







Kopelandiaa, you did not understand me. As I explained, Maria Sabina, the curandera who revealed psilocybin mushrooms to Gordon Wasson, said that the spirit helpers which she used to encounter on her mushroom veladas were increasingly reluctant to help because the westerners (us) started using the mushroom oracle as a means to have fun and find God (often without real determination more kinda fun ride), instead of their primary purpose, which was to diagnose and cure illnesses, heal soul, find stolen property etc.


By experiment I didn't mean any precise scientific method to measure anything. It's such a ridicilous idea when it comes to entheogens.

I just meant that if more people started to use mushrooms with a clear intent to summon up spirit helpers, then perhaps these beings would start communicating more with us, offering information that we couldn't know otherwise. You know, more people doing some thing greatly amplifies the energy in the astral connected with that thing, and like attracts like...


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Offlinealphaone
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Re: How to communicate with spirit helpers? [Re: alphaone]
    #3295037 - 10/29/04 09:13 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

diddlesticks22, that's a very interesting experience.

I also agree one has to accept that other realities really exist if one wishes to communicate with them.


From the texts I researched, it appears that the main thing a shaman must do in order to summon spirit helpers is not to be passive but active during the trip. This is usually done by chanting, clasping hands, dancing, and talking what comes to your mind. They usually say something and then at the end add "says", meaning "mushrooms says". It's all done in the Mazatek language.

More about that can be read in this nice text:

The Mushrooms of Language


Edited by alphaone (10/29/04 09:14 PM)


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: How to communicate with spirit helpers? [Re: alphaone]
    #3295372 - 10/29/04 10:49 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Please add something to the tripper's FAQ, about spirit helpers, and listen to some Terrance McKenna. You'd like what he has to say. There is a link to his recordings in the Essential links part of the Tripper's FAQ.

You may also wish to learn to cultivate Mexicana Strain A. The easiest psychadellic fungus to cultivate.

All you need is spores, jars, a pressure cooker and some lawn seed.

You'd like the Mexicana Sclerotia trip. Very spiritual. Very clear.

Search for more info.


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OfflinePsiledehysp
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Re: How to communicate with spirit helpers? [Re: Rose]
    #3301753 - 10/31/04 07:10 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

So, finding stolen property is a better reason to take mushrooms than finding god? :smile:


--------------------
Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes.
- Carl Gustav Jung


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: How to communicate with spirit helpers? [Re: Psiledehysp]
    #3302181 - 10/31/04 09:06 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

?Que?


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InvisibleMystikMushroom
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Re: How to communicate with spirit helpers? [Re: Rose]
    #3302586 - 10/31/04 10:41 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I personally believe that the there are plateaus of a shroom trip, as you climb uphill you can feel yourself breaking through the barriers of each level in your mind.

I've had a gastric bypass operation for weight loss (my stomach is the size of an egg or two and my intestines are 3 ft. shorter now). And decided to take a standard 3.5g dry dose at a huge drug/music fest one weekend.

I felt myself go through the platueaus (similiar to how DXM levels are structured) and I have to say that there was ESP happening with my trip partners. The only term to describe the phenomenon would be, "Telepathic Imagery".

You "see" somthing, but you know it's not there yet it "feels" real. I was able to communicate like this with my friend.

After this stage I went into the "master of puppets" stage. Basically anything I wanted I could have. Anything I needed, I already had...I had no wants, worries or cares. I had done everything in my life I had wanted to do...or so I thought at least.

After this level however, things get blurry. I can't for certain say I had communication with an "entity" but I do belive I was propelled by the mushies much, much farther than that.

I was so far out there that I began to realize that I was the only entity in the universe. We are all just "limbs" or "branches" of the same tree. So basically, I am God and I have just created all my universe around me, but when im not shrooming I don't know this because I'm "stuck", and not intelligent and free enough to realize the truth.

I realized that there are infinate possible realities, and when Im not shrooming i'm stuck in one. Shrooms allowed me to see, live, and alter the other "potential" universes.

I think that because I take a more cautious and "spiritual" spin on my psychadelic use, I get more meaning out of them. Somplace in the back of my head I'm always hoping to gain wisdom. If there was one thing I wish I could be more of, it would be wise.

I think my next trip will be somthing special. As the father to some brazillians I feel a more close and personal connection to these babies. I talk to them, encourage them, give lots of positive vibes and love. The love/energy you put in seems to equate to the quality of the final product (in other ethogens at least).

Whew im done!


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OfflinePsiledehysp
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Re: How to communicate with spirit helpers? [Re: Rose]
    #3303261 - 11/01/04 02:57 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
?Que?




Well thats what Maria Sabina seems to imply - westerners use mushrooms to have fun and FIND GOD and no longer use it how they should be used, ie. healing and FINDING STOLEN STUFF... wired, huh?


--------------------
Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes.
- Carl Gustav Jung


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Offlinealphaone
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Re: How to communicate with spirit helpers? [Re: Psiledehysp]
    #3309372 - 11/02/04 03:44 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:


I was so far out there that I began to realize that I was the only entity in the universe. We are all just "limbs" or "branches" of the same tree. So basically, I am God and I have just created all my universe around me, but when im not shrooming I don't know this because I'm "stuck", and not intelligent and free enough to realize the truth.





Exactly, that sums up what I felt on my latest shroom trip that occured on Nov 1st. I have realized I am some sort of limb, or special department of God in this particular area. But my exact purpose here still remains kinda vague.

However, I wouldn't agree that I'm really in control of everything. There are many other variables that I can't influence much, but that do shape my life (eg. environment, people, unpredictable events, disasters etc), so in that respect I'm not omnipotent. All I can do is choose another mode of living (another reality), but it won't change the fact that I'm living in a world that is pretty complicated. I'm basically fighting to survive just as animals and plants do, except for the fact I'm completely aware of that process, and I'm questioning the ultimate reason behind that process.

My existence is important because I'm a form of God, and at the same time it's totally unimportant as there are infinite other forms like mine. It's not easy to explain, but it boils down to a feeling of being happy that you are alive, and that you can manifest God in this world (when you look at life on the bright side).


Btw. All this is pretty similar to what I experience most of the time when tripping, except I've never felt distinctive presence of external entity. I always thought it was just my imagination... because upon rigorous scrutiny of trips it usually turns out there was no extrasensory information - everything I saw was based on images and experiences I had seen before in my life (save those abstract CEVs and OEVs).


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: How to communicate with spirit helpers? [Re: Psiledehysp]
    #3309472 - 11/02/04 04:08 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Psiledehysp said:
Quote:

Cervantes said:
?Que?




Well thats what Maria Sabina seems to imply - westerners use mushrooms to have fun and FIND GOD and no longer use it how they should be used, ie. healing and FINDING STOLEN STUFF... wired, huh?




Keep this in mind:

Maria got in a bit of trouble for sharing the magic with westerners. Her community pretty much disowned her, until after her death.

I'm sure there are a lot more Westerners who listen to the fungus now, than there were when she said that.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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InvisibleSwami
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Re: How to communicate with spirit helpers? [Re: mushroomman23]
    #3315532 - 11/03/04 04:45 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

"The mush" has no desire to show you anything. Synthetic psilocybin created totally in a lab will show you the same thing. Chemicals do not have an "agenda" except to bind with other chemicals.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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